Mostly Harmless wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:33 am

newlygrounded wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:36 pm Last time I checked the US has Alaska, and if we were as good as everyone claims we are we wouldn't have the lowest paid 777 drivers in the world

Yay Alaska. But I seem unable to draw a line between Alaskan flying and your 777 wages? I am really looking forward to hearing the connection.

Eric Janson wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:16 pm I'd just like to add that there's a lot more to being an Expat than getting $$$ - which you mentioned as your motivation.

Yes - you can potentially earn more - however there is no such thing as a free lunch imho.

- Living in a different culture isn't for everyone - and it will be very different than what you may be used to. Seen a lot of people that couldn't adjust - they left within 6 months. Visiting a place is very different than living there.

- One serious incident and you're out. No real protection.

- Your contract can be changed at a moments notice. Don't like it? There's the door.

- Instead of Expat you could use Mercenary or Prostitute - both are a more accurate description imho.

On a personal note - I enjoyed the 8 years I worked in Asia. I was able to make the adjustment.

Had I stayed I would have been laid off in 2020 and it would have been the end of my career - funny how things work out sometimes.

That is some solid advice.

People constantly say Canada has some magical world class pilots because of “the norf” if rugged terrain and old planes are what sets us apart they have Alaska. If we really were world class we’d probably be paid better you think?

newlygrounded wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:29 pm People constantly say Canada has some magical world class pilots because of “the norf” if rugged terrain and old planes are what sets us apart they have Alaska. If we really were world class we’d probably be paid better you think?

That would be nice but, your price isn't set by your skill set, it's set by market forces as well the ability to negotiate.

I really think you are misunderstanding my message so I will restate it. Having a type rating does not make you 'cream of the crop'. It means you have a type rating.

Porter Airlines Direct Entry Captain reopened yesterday, for their Q400 and coming new E195-E2 fleet

https://porter.rivs.com/careers/porterc ... orter.com/

What is Porter going to pay their E195 captains?

Updated payscales for both types I’m told due out next couple of months. February ish.

C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:22 am Updated payscales for both types I’m told due out next couple of months. February ish.

Then I'll apply then.

lownslow wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:17 am In early 2019 Jazz was looking at their options to hire DECs and intended to do so. I don’t think you’ll see mainline AC or WJ do it, possibly ever, but it seems everyone else is fair game.

I think AC got to the point where a new hire could have bid DEC on the Max right before they got parked. Seasoned drivers are always skittish about bidding onto a new type there until they see how it will be utilized, which created a huge hole on the left seat list. I think once you get in the door, you realise that the risks of bidding left seat for your first posting there far outweigh the benefits. Flying the aircraft is a small part of passing the command course, knowing company preprocesses inside and out etc takes time. And ACPA can't protect you till you're done probation so why risk it?

co-joe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:46 am

lownslow wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:17 am In early 2019 Jazz was looking at their options to hire DECs and intended to do so. I don’t think you’ll see mainline AC or WJ do it, possibly ever, but it seems everyone else is fair game.

I think AC got to the point where a new hire could have bid DEC on the Max right before they got parked. Seasoned drivers are always skittish about bidding onto a new type there until they see how it will be utilized, which created a huge hole on the left seat list. I think once you get in the door, you realise that the risks of bidding left seat for your first posting there far outweigh the benefits. Flying the aircraft is a small part of passing the command course, knowing company preprocesses inside and out etc takes time. And ACPA can't protect you till you're done probation so why risk it?

Big risk and bandaid solution to fix starting pay. You might make it left seat, but good luck holding any sort of reasonable schedule while people parachute in above you.

Ya. Imagine having to work 16 days for 220k a year.

Just awful.

schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:16 am

co-joe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:46 am

lownslow wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:17 am In early 2019 Jazz was looking at their options to hire DECs and intended to do so. I don’t think you’ll see mainline AC or WJ do it, possibly ever, but it seems everyone else is fair game.

I think AC got to the point where a new hire could have bid DEC on the Max right before they got parked. Seasoned drivers are always skittish about bidding onto a new type there until they see how it will be utilized, which created a huge hole on the left seat list. I think once you get in the door, you realise that the risks of bidding left seat for your first posting there far outweigh the benefits. Flying the aircraft is a small part of passing the command course, knowing company preprocesses inside and out etc takes time. And ACPA can't protect you till you're done probation so why risk it?

Big risk and bandaid solution to fix starting pay. You might make it left seat, but good luck holding any sort of reasonable schedule while people parachute in above you.

56k/year on first-year flat pay vs. what, ~190k/year for first-year 737 MAX captain? I think I'd suck it up and deal with the crappy schedule

Cavalier44 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:45 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:16 am

co-joe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:46 am

I think AC got to the point where a new hire could have bid DEC on the Max right before they got parked. Seasoned drivers are always skittish about bidding onto a new type there until they see how it will be utilized, which created a huge hole on the left seat list. I think once you get in the door, you realise that the risks of bidding left seat for your first posting there far outweigh the benefits. Flying the aircraft is a small part of passing the command course, knowing company preprocesses inside and out etc takes time. And ACPA can't protect you till you're done probation so why risk it?

Big risk and bandaid solution to fix starting pay. You might make it left seat, but good luck holding any sort of reasonable schedule while people parachute in above you.

56k/year on first-year flat pay vs. what, ~190k/year for first-year 737 MAX captain? I think I'd suck it up and deal with the crappy schedule

Don't blow your upgrade lol, but I'm brought back to an earlier point; upgrades aren't a solution to that new hire pay. Be nice to see ACPA hopefully make some inroads when things get back to a more normal rhythm.

So i've been wondering about this situation a lot. Im not Canadian but will moving to Canada soon. Ive been flying commercial for over 6 years and got about 3600 hrs out of which 1400 on 737NG and 2000 on 320/21 and some training experience as well on the APT (our company had an option for senior first officers to become trainers). Im in the next batch of command starting next month probably so i am super confused cause ive been working towards command for a long time and covid and switching companies already screwed those plans by at least 2 years if not 3. DEC seems like a SUPER rare thing in Canada but the fixed pay on who knows what fleet with bottom seniority for 4 years in AC is a huge pay cut for me. So i was thinking of hopping to vietnam or something on an expat contract for 2 years and getting some money in bank before coming to Canada. But seniority seems to be everything with very limited opportunity for growth in the mainstreams but the end payout towards retirement seems to be ok i guess but not great.
So taking command here will mean signing a contract for 3 years for about $55,000 CAD which ill probably pay cause i will be moving within 3 years. The main issue being should i move to JAZZ and try for DEC after i have 5000 hours in the next 2 years or bottom of the list as a first officer at AC mainline with flat pay? and how long does it take to upgrade to a 320/737 in mainline?

Come to Flair, upgrade in 6 months and be in the top 30% of the seniority list.

tbaylx wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:29 am Come to Flair, upgrade in 6 months and be in the top 30% of the seniority list.

yeah but start ups are risky, already a part of one and am already in top 30% the lucky part is the investor is the biggest in the country and has just bought 3 out of 7 mainlines. But flair Im not too sure of, yeah high risk high reward but i need less risk if Im starting a new life and a sort of guaranteed future. Of course covid has proved you cant plan for shit but we can try.

320GEEK wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:24 am

tbaylx wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:29 am Come to Flair, upgrade in 6 months and be in the top 30% of the seniority list.

yeah but start ups are risky, already a part of one and am already in top 30% the lucky part is the investor is the biggest in the country and has just bought 3 out of 7 mainlines. But flair Im not too sure of, yeah high risk high reward but i need less risk if Im starting a new life and a sort of guaranteed future. Of course covid has proved you cant plan for shit but we can try.

Lynx is a start up. Flair is not. Sounds like you should probably just stay where you are.

320GEEK wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:42 pm So i've been wondering about this situation a lot. Im not Canadian but will moving to Canada soon. Ive been flying commercial for over 6 years and got about 3600 hrs out of which 1400 on 737NG and 2000 on 320/21 and some training experience as well on the APT (our company had an option for senior first officers to become trainers). Im in the next batch of command starting next month probably so i am super confused cause ive been working towards command for a long time and covid and switching companies already screwed those plans by at least 2 years if not 3. DEC seems like a SUPER rare thing in Canada but the fixed pay on who knows what fleet with bottom seniority for 4 years in AC is a huge pay cut for me. So i was thinking of hopping to vietnam or something on an expat contract for 2 years and getting some money in bank before coming to Canada. But seniority seems to be everything with very limited opportunity for growth in the mainstreams but the end payout towards retirement seems to be ok i guess but not great.
So taking command here will mean signing a contract for 3 years for about $55,000 CAD which ill probably pay cause i will be moving within 3 years. The main issue being should i move to JAZZ and try for DEC after i have 5000 hours in the next 2 years or bottom of the list as a first officer at AC mainline with flat pay? and how long does it take to upgrade to a 320/737 in mainline?

Wow, you sound entitled. Stay where you are, you'll be much happier. Reality is, with 3600 hrs, ZERO PIC, some insurance companies wont insure you to fly a PA31 up north as you don't have any PIC or northern experience.

If you can buck up, enjoy the ride, and want a good life style than yeah come back to Canada.

flyinhigh wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:25 am

320GEEK wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:42 pm So i've been wondering about this situation a lot. Im not Canadian but will moving to Canada soon. Ive been flying commercial for over 6 years and got about 3600 hrs out of which 1400 on 737NG and 2000 on 320/21 and some training experience as well on the APT (our company had an option for senior first officers to become trainers). Im in the next batch of command starting next month probably so i am super confused cause ive been working towards command for a long time and covid and switching companies already screwed those plans by at least 2 years if not 3. DEC seems like a SUPER rare thing in Canada but the fixed pay on who knows what fleet with bottom seniority for 4 years in AC is a huge pay cut for me. So i was thinking of hopping to vietnam or something on an expat contract for 2 years and getting some money in bank before coming to Canada. But seniority seems to be everything with very limited opportunity for growth in the mainstreams but the end payout towards retirement seems to be ok i guess but not great.
So taking command here will mean signing a contract for 3 years for about $55,000 CAD which ill probably pay cause i will be moving within 3 years. The main issue being should i move to JAZZ and try for DEC after i have 5000 hours in the next 2 years or bottom of the list as a first officer at AC mainline with flat pay? and how long does it take to upgrade to a 320/737 in mainline?

Wow, you sound entitled. Stay where you are, you'll be much happier. Reality is, with 3600 hrs, ZERO PIC, some insurance companies wont insure you to fly a PA31 up north as you don't have any PIC or northern experience.

If you can buck up, enjoy the ride, and want a good life style than yeah come back to Canada.

Reality is AC may hire him not a pa31 PIC

flyinhigh wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:25 am

320GEEK wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:42 pm So i've been wondering about this situation a lot. Im not Canadian but will moving to Canada soon. Ive been flying commercial for over 6 years and got about 3600 hrs out of which 1400 on 737NG and 2000 on 320/21 and some training experience as well on the APT (our company had an option for senior first officers to become trainers). Im in the next batch of command starting next month probably so i am super confused cause ive been working towards command for a long time and covid and switching companies already screwed those plans by at least 2 years if not 3. DEC seems like a SUPER rare thing in Canada but the fixed pay on who knows what fleet with bottom seniority for 4 years in AC is a huge pay cut for me. So i was thinking of hopping to vietnam or something on an expat contract for 2 years and getting some money in bank before coming to Canada. But seniority seems to be everything with very limited opportunity for growth in the mainstreams but the end payout towards retirement seems to be ok i guess but not great.
So taking command here will mean signing a contract for 3 years for about $55,000 CAD which ill probably pay cause i will be moving within 3 years. The main issue being should i move to JAZZ and try for DEC after i have 5000 hours in the next 2 years or bottom of the list as a first officer at AC mainline with flat pay? and how long does it take to upgrade to a 320/737 in mainline?

Wow, you sound entitled. Stay where you are, you'll be much happier. Reality is, with 3600 hrs, ZERO PIC, some insurance companies wont insure you to fly a PA31 up north as you don't have any PIC or northern experience.

If you can buck up, enjoy the ride, and want a good life style than yeah come back to Canada.

My apologies for sounding entitled, that was not the intention. I was simply asking a question and wanted to give accurate facts to get a better idea as restarting your life, career and leaving everything you know can be a little daunting. Regardless thanks for the advice about how companies look at zero PIC.

320GEEK wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:16 pm

flyinhigh wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:25 am

320GEEK wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:42 pm So i've been wondering about this situation a lot. Im not Canadian but will moving to Canada soon. Ive been flying commercial for over 6 years and got about 3600 hrs out of which 1400 on 737NG and 2000 on 320/21 and some training experience as well on the APT (our company had an option for senior first officers to become trainers). Im in the next batch of command starting next month probably so i am super confused cause ive been working towards command for a long time and covid and switching companies already screwed those plans by at least 2 years if not 3. DEC seems like a SUPER rare thing in Canada but the fixed pay on who knows what fleet with bottom seniority for 4 years in AC is a huge pay cut for me. So i was thinking of hopping to vietnam or something on an expat contract for 2 years and getting some money in bank before coming to Canada. But seniority seems to be everything with very limited opportunity for growth in the mainstreams but the end payout towards retirement seems to be ok i guess but not great.
So taking command here will mean signing a contract for 3 years for about $55,000 CAD which ill probably pay cause i will be moving within 3 years. The main issue being should i move to JAZZ and try for DEC after i have 5000 hours in the next 2 years or bottom of the list as a first officer at AC mainline with flat pay? and how long does it take to upgrade to a 320/737 in mainline?

Wow, you sound entitled. Stay where you are, you'll be much happier. Reality is, with 3600 hrs, ZERO PIC, some insurance companies wont insure you to fly a PA31 up north as you don't have any PIC or northern experience.

If you can buck up, enjoy the ride, and want a good life style than yeah come back to Canada.

My apologies for sounding entitled, that was not the intention. I was simply asking a question and wanted to give accurate facts to get a better idea as restarting your life, career and leaving everything you know can be a little daunting. Regardless thanks for the advice about how companies look at zero PIC.

Don't worry, he's not correct in the slightest, maybe 20 years ago but not today.
Left seat in the smaller operations basically require a heartbeat in a number of operations now and you're more than qualified than a number of them even at the more known companies.

As for you, the time you have is a bit low for DEC at most airlines here. You could try and get DEC at Jazz like you said or Encore, Porter, which are regionals; worst case is six months to a year then left seat if you're competent. Major airlines, I don't know anyone who is hiring with that low of time DEC, Swoop says 5k but knowing trainers there, they are few and far between, Flair..no idea but I doubt it, Lynx sounds like higher time individuals in the left seat only and definitely not WJ, AC, Transat, left seat for a bit.

If I were you, and HAD to come to Canada (try that Vietnam gig first imo), bite the bullet and go flat pay AC. Unless you're close to retirement, take the short term pain initially, don't overspend and don't take out loans for a overpriced average home like too many people here just did and will learn the hard way soon. And don't live in YYZ/YVR under flat pay, you won't keep your head above water.

To quote Greasy Greaser.....

"As for you, the time you have is a bit low for DEC at most airlines here. You could try and get DEC at Jazz like you said or Encore, Porter, which are regionals; worst case is six months to a year then left seat if you're competent. Major airlines, I don't know anyone who is hiring with that low of time DEC, Swoop says 5k but knowing trainers there, they are few and far between, Flair..no idea but I doubt it, Lynx sounds like higher time individuals in the left seat only and definitely not WJ, AC, Transat, left seat for a bit"

Exactly when did Jazz, Encore or Porter STOP becoming airlines, many pilots have and retired comfortable or are enjoying their "Terms & Conditions" with these 705 certificate holder.

When their pay and conditions went into a graveyard spiral

Loon-A-Tic wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 4:25 am To quote Greasy Greaser.....

"As for you, the time you have is a bit low for DEC at most airlines here. You could try and get DEC at Jazz like you said or Encore, Porter, which are regionals; worst case is six months to a year then left seat if you're competent. Major airlines, I don't know anyone who is hiring with that low of time DEC, Swoop says 5k but knowing trainers there, they are few and far between, Flair..no idea but I doubt it, Lynx sounds like higher time individuals in the left seat only and definitely not WJ, AC, Transat, left seat for a bit"

Exactly when did Jazz, Encore or Porter STOP becoming airlines, many pilots have and retired comfortable or are enjoying their "Terms & Conditions" with these 705 certificate holder.

My apologies, the wording on that was bad, did not mean to insinuate anything there.

You are absolutely correct on them being a retirement gig. Though Encore is still undetermined, we will find out with the next WJ contract if they turn into a proper retirement gig or stepping stone still.
Hell, I'd probably take senior Jazz captain on the RJ than 95% of the other flying jobs in Canada.

Loon-A-Tic wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 4:25 am To quote Greasy Greaser.....

"As for you, the time you have is a bit low for DEC at most airlines here. You could try and get DEC at Jazz like you said or Encore, Porter, which are regionals; worst case is six months to a year then left seat if you're competent. Major airlines, I don't know anyone who is hiring with that low of time DEC, Swoop says 5k but knowing trainers there, they are few and far between, Flair..no idea but I doubt it, Lynx sounds like higher time individuals in the left seat only and definitely not WJ, AC, Transat, left seat for a bit"

Exactly when did Jazz, Encore or Porter STOP becoming airlines, many pilots have and retired comfortable or are enjoying their "Terms & Conditions" with these 705 certificate holder.

I'll give you Encore; otherwise its no harm, no foul, safe travels

Greasy Greaser wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 6:12 pm

320GEEK wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:16 pm

flyinhigh wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:25 am

Wow, you sound entitled. Stay where you are, you'll be much happier. Reality is, with 3600 hrs, ZERO PIC, some insurance companies wont insure you to fly a PA31 up north as you don't have any PIC or northern experience.

If you can buck up, enjoy the ride, and want a good life style than yeah come back to Canada.

My apologies for sounding entitled, that was not the intention. I was simply asking a question and wanted to give accurate facts to get a better idea as restarting your life, career and leaving everything you know can be a little daunting. Regardless thanks for the advice about how companies look at zero PIC.

Don't worry, he's not correct in the slightest, maybe 20 years ago but not today.
Left seat in the smaller operations basically require a heartbeat in a number of operations now and you're more than qualified than a number of them even at the more known companies.

As for you, the time you have is a bit low for DEC at most airlines here. You could try and get DEC at Jazz like you said or Encore, Porter, which are regionals; worst case is six months to a year then left seat if you're competent. Major airlines, I don't know anyone who is hiring with that low of time DEC, Swoop says 5k but knowing trainers there, they are few and far between, Flair..no idea but I doubt it, Lynx sounds like higher time individuals in the left seat only and definitely not WJ, AC, Transat, left seat for a bit.

If I were you, and HAD to come to Canada (try that Vietnam gig first imo), bite the bullet and go flat pay AC. Unless you're close to retirement, take the short term pain initially, don't overspend and don't take out loans for a overpriced average home like too many people here just did and will learn the hard way soon. And don't live in YYZ/YVR under flat pay, you won't keep your head above water.

So yes, I HAVE to come cause of family. But thanks that REALLY helps. Vietnam seems to be sketch as vietjet is hiring and they seem to have a terrible situation, with some airlines not hiring you if that’s on your cv. As of now I think the first thing I’ll get is capt in my current airline so I’m stuck here for 3 years which means I’ll come with about 6000 hours. I’m far from retirement (mid 20s) which is why I wanna make only one move and stick with it. Ideally was hoping for DEC in a subsidiary like encore whose seniority translates to mainline and wait for my turn on mainline capt while minimum dent on my pay, but like I said that’s just hope. Was trying to figure out it’s viability.

Double post.