Provincial Airlines

mach_tuck · Post by **mach_tuck** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:06 am

He's gone direct Captain.

uwillpay · Post by **uwillpay** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:02 am

What an absolute kick in the head for the guys at CanJet waiting for an upgrade. It would be different if the DE captains had some heavy jet time, at least the last DE guy had some decent MD80 time. It boggles the mind that they actually believe hours bulked out flying around NF would automagically qualify someone to command a 737 into say, LaGuardia. DE only makes sense if the candidate can step almost immediately into the position, ie extensive prior experience in a similar type/operation.

They've virtually guaranteed an exodus to WestJet and elsewhere...many guys have just been waiting to see what would happen, and only hanging on for the upgrade. With the low pay, the last reason to stay is gone. This will put the spurs to the job search, not to mention poison the company morale. And the pathetic part is, it won't speed up the process of filling the left seat, one bit.

Not to mention, with the 10k signing bonus, a DE captain...who's never flown a jet....will be making more than a current junior captain. If there were any doubt that a union is necessary, they've just removed it.

Yeah, yeah I know, welcome to aviation...should be entertaining to watch the fireworks...

disco · Post by **disco** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:21 am

Uwillpay...

could not have said it better myself...

What a misguided move...

Looking forward to showing a guy who has never flown this type (nor a jet at all) how to get around in this thing...including down in the Carribbean or into LaGuardia...

way to go CanJet...

55+ · Post by **55+** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:48 am

What is the pay at CJ.........

nightrunner · Post by **nightrunner** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:43 am

Starting captain is $70,000.

Starting captain with previous turboprop experience (ie. dash 8 ppc)$70,000 + $10,000 signing bonus.

What a joke.

uwillpay · Post by **uwillpay** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:55 am

Year

1 FO: 42,500 Captain: 70,000
2 FO: 48,000 Captain: 75,000
3 FO: 51,000 Captain: 80,000
4 FO: 54,000 Captain: 85,000
5 FO: 57,000 Captain: 90,000
6 FO: 60,000 Captain: 95,000

Plus 10,000 "recruitment incentive" to all DE captains hired between Jan 16/06 and June 30/06.

WF9F · Post by **WF9F** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:05 pm

Give me a break, it's a 37 not the shuttle.Where do you think a lot of the Captains at CanJet came from , that's right a Dash 8.KLGA is busy but after a few trips you sort of get used to it.
As for direct entry , I can see that pissing guys off but why haven't Canjet upgraded who they can from within?Are there no FO's upgradeable?

WF9F

55+ · Post by **55+** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:13 pm

Not bad money...... I retired on close to the same for a 6 yr Capt, but I am not complaining cause I didn't drive a boat load of people in the shitty CYYT WX. Any type of a benefit package, medical, dental, pension contributions and the like......

disco · Post by **disco** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:31 pm

WF9F wrote:Give me a break, it's a 37 not the shuttle.Where do you think a lot of the Captains at CanJet came from , that's right a Dash 8.KLGA is busy but after a few trips you sort of get used to it.
As for direct entry , I can see that pissing guys off but why haven't Canjet upgraded who they can from within?Are there no FO's upgradeable?

WF9F

WF9F....its not about the 37 being the shuttle at all. Its about there being much more suitably experienced F/Os than some Saab or Dash driver who has never set foot in the thing....there are some very suitably qualified pilots who sit waiting...maybe not for much longer tho after this...

WF9F · Post by **WF9F** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Disco,
You did not answer my question?Why are they not upgrading within?Something does not add up.
Have the FO's waiting for upgrade gone through an eval?Have they been told why they are not being upgraded?Is the 5000 hour thing something that is strictly adhered to for whatever reason?(BS if it is.)
With WJ's new contract I don't no why any of the pilots would not take a look at going there.

WF9F

uwillpay · Post by **uwillpay** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:24 pm

WF9F wrote:Give me a break, it's a 37 not the shuttle.Where do you think a lot of the Captains at CanJet came from , that's right a Dash 8.KLGA is busy but after a few trips you sort of get used to it.
As for direct entry , I can see that pissing guys off but why haven't Canjet upgraded who they can from within?Are there no FO's upgradeable?

WF9F

Nope, the 737 ain't the shuttle. But is the industry really so hard up for guys that the entry-level jet job is now left seat in a Boeing? I don't think so.

55+...Captains at CJ are elgible to receive 5% matching RRSP contributions provided that the employee contributes at least 5% after a waiting period of one year. FO's have the same terms except at 2%.

Medical is covered. There is no dental.

WF9F...you are correct, something is not adding up. And you are absolutely correct, removing the carrot of an upgrade, combined with conditions at WJ and any other 37 operator = head for the exits.

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:11 pm

let's just see if those DE captains actually get through the training and line indoc process. They've made it clear enough that they'll be put into the right seat if everything isn't satisfactory.
There are alot of FO's that are capable of going through the whole upgrade process and will probably get that chance sooner than they think.
Management at CJ are being very careful about who gets the left seat with very good reason. When the CRFI is .2 in YYT and no jets are landing, there's a very good reason for it. When approaching into LGA you have to stay close behind other jets and then land on a 7000 ft runway and get off ASAP because there's another about to flare, requires experience and confidence on a jet. It's not the shuttle but there are differences than flying a turboprop.
On the bright side, this shows how the pilot pool is drying up very quickly in Canada. Soon every airline will feel this crunch.

WF9F · Post by **WF9F** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:30 pm

Not the shuttle but the Jet flying is not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be.Sure there are considerations to be made when flying turboprops vs. Jets , but everyone is still under the impression you need 10000 hours to be able to fly left seat in a jet.It may have been like that one time but not the case now.Like you say they will be trained to standard and if they can't cut then it is in the right seat they go.
They will learn the runway critical element of the job being based out of Halifax where , despite what most think, gets as much weather to deal with as YYT or any other place in Maritimes.
My previous questions have still not been answered.
With ALPA coming in shortly I think that will put a damper on any more DEC in the near future.

WF9F

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:39 pm

forget about ALPA having any affect on DE in the near future. ALPA is coming but it's a long process until anything gets ratified. So if any DE apply, they'll probably get hired (pending experience of course)

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:56 pm

BTW WF9F, we don't know why they're not upgrading within right now. Those who've had 18 months experience are upgraded are getting upgraded. Mangement is just being cautious and arguably over cautious about who gets the left seat. I doubt you'll see alot moving over to WJ, but you'll see a fair chunk headed for AC.

WF9F · Post by **WF9F** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:13 pm

Thanks Fish,
IMO if you have 3000-5000 hours, 1000 on type you should be able to take it Left seat or at least be given the shot unless you are just unable to cut it. The training Dept. has lots of experience they should be able to train to a standard that is safe enough for our good ol' Maritime weather.

WF9F

B73B · Post by **B73B** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:27 pm

I second what uwillpay & flyin fish have to say.

I mean it's good for the guy who got to go left seat! But no doubt other people further down the line are questioning just what management are thinking.

I'll bet some are already updating the ol' resume!

mach_tuck · Post by **mach_tuck** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:58 pm

More news.. Another got the call today.. That makes 2 for DE.

HoldMyBeerAndWatchThis · Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:05 pm

Thats sweet. When do he start?

flynbutcher · Post by **flynbutcher** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:58 pm

I am in shock that a company such as Canjet will put someone off a Dash 8 into a DE Captain.

Can someone in management explain that to me on this forum, surely there's someone reading this from CJ management. I am not saying this to be cruel or judgemental, I just do not comprehend. Can't blame the pilots for being pissed. What kind of management team is this. I guess the flood gates have just been opened.

Main Gear · Post by **Main Gear** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:05 am

I thought a captain needed time on type....what about insurance?

wooden spoon · Post by **wooden spoon** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:26 am

WF9F · Post by **WF9F** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:36 am

Listen, you do not need time on type to go Captain beacause of insurance and someone with 5000 hours or more and coming of a Dash 8 can do the job.It has been done before!!!!!
The point here is why are they going the DEC route for the 737?So come on enough crap about the guys coming from a DASH 8.
There is more important stuff to this that needs explaining?

So for the rookies, FOCUS!!!!

WF9F

No more BS · Post by **No more BS** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:37 am

Everybody is gullible here....

Direct Entry CAPT at Canjet, come on!...

Not possible.

PLease stop spreading rumours.

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:19 am

The Dash 8 DE's you're refering to must be the former Air Atlantic pilots that are with CJ now. Don't forget alot of them had 146 and F28 (InterCanadian) experience. If they didn't fly a jet before that they had signifigant experience (more than 10000 hrs).
You're right, something doesn't add up but the upgrade policy has had alot of gray areas in the last year. And the DE's simply fall into the gray areas. I'm sure they'll be just fine and the training department will do their job in making sure they're capable of handling a 737 with CanJet's operation.
Like I said before, I'm sure the FO's within will get their chance sooner than they think. I based that on what I hear CJ wants to do in the future, and the number of aircraft they want on the line. In the meantime, they're probably just taking who they can get and be ready for the next step with expansion. Of course, that's just my theory.