Our turn to strike ?

[flyinhigh]

Bend over yessir keyboard warrior by day, grammar teacher by night.. and the plot thickens

You are an embarrassment, not only to Jazz pilots, but to the profession. Everytime you post something, your ignorance and entitlement is on full display.

We can't strike because we are operating under a contract, and do not meet any of the criteria required to strike under the labour code. Yes, the company is in violation of a section, and a grievance has been filed.

But you are getting paid, as per the contract. Your sick bank was topped up, as per the contract. Your perdiams are being paid, as per the contract. The list goes on. Just becauae they violate one section does not give an employee group the right to go full anarchist.

And oh, you get to book off if you don't feel "fit" and you are protected by the contract and union. If you had experience working at other places, you would know that is not the case everywhere.

Aside from pay, which is pathetic, the Jazz contract is a world class contract. Hopefully the last piece of the puzzle comes together sooner than later.

The flow is part of it ? The 60% flow IS the contract ! There is no contract without the 60% flow lol. The flow to AC is the reason the payscale is so low, it is the reason the contract has a 17 year term, everything major in the contract revolves around that flow ! Taking it away the is like removing the foundation from underneath a house, you think the rest of the walls will still be standing ? Not only it is affecting all the ones who already go into AC from jazz, but also the ones waiting. They are robbed of hundreds of seniority, which affects payscale, postion, base etc.. and thats FOR LIFE ! Seniority is not everything in these companies, it is the ONLY thing, and they just took it away from hundreds of pilots who signed on that 'contract'. That s not even counting the ramifications on the ones who decided to stay at jazz. What do you think would have happen if they have kept honoring the 60% flow ? Jazz would have ALREADY came up with a better payscale to retain and attract new pilots ! Without the need to beg for it. So yes, the flow IS the contract, make no mistake, we are under no contract now, take your acupuncture and massages we dont want them. Put an investigator to make sure no one is screwing the LTD system. But guess why jazz's MEC will never do that lol. Ill leave it to u to figure that part out. I ll say it again in case you missed it, Jazz pilots are operating under NO contract, hence the requirements for a strike are met, no matter how much some spineless pro ALPA stoogies keyboard warriors here love to wave around the canadian labour code.

Then pay $40 to buy one of the WestJet strike signs, throw your uniform on and go carry said sign outside Pearson. Oh, don’t collect a paycheque and see what case law will say to that.

Per the agreement, the correct avenues to correct a contract violation are being followed.

[canadian_aviator_4]

From the union whenever you approach them regarding flow, be it the mec, lec chairs or anyone else involved they don’t seem to have much urgency towards resolving the flow issue. They indicate a grievance was filed, but don’t know much else. The company is the exact same, indicating Air Canada is hiring jazz pilots, and not much more.

So there is a lot of frustration over the appearance of a lack of concern, along with no communication regarding flow. And subsequent emails from the mec indicating that jazz has an uncertain future.

A petition mentioned earlier would at least capture the attention of leadership, both from union and company standpoint, to possibly give us more answers and push for more urgency. Another idea is for anyone unhappy here to approach company and union leadership and requesting more information regarding the flow issue. I have done this many times already.

Unfortunately in the end it may be quicker to take advantage of the ‘Jazz-Westjet flow program’.

[Nick678]

From the union whenever you approach them regarding flow, be it the mec, lec chairs or anyone else involved they don’t seem to have much urgency towards resolving the flow issue. They indicate a grievance was filed, but don’t know much else. The company is the exact same, indicating Air Canada is hiring jazz pilots, and not much more.

So there is a lot of frustration over the appearance of a lack of concern, along with no communication regarding flow. And subsequent emails from the mec indicating that jazz has an uncertain future.

A petition mentioned earlier would at least capture the attention of leadership, both from union and company standpoint, to possibly give us more answers and push for more urgency. Another idea is for anyone unhappy here to approach company and union leadership and requesting more information regarding the flow issue. I have done this many times already.

Unfortunately in the end it may be quicker to take advantage of the ‘Jazz-Westjet flow program’.

Consensus I’ve gathered from the line suggests the grievance will be dropped and the flow rate will be modified to a lower percentage to support wage increases. The survey showed a majority favouring this approach and it’s just a matter of how much the company is willing to pay, currently not enough.

This is obviously flawed but the senior guys don’t care about flow and that’s our MEC. The last guy I flew with really wanted a new boat.

None of this is 100% verified except the boat part.

[airbussy]

From the union whenever you approach them regarding flow, be it the mec, lec chairs or anyone else involved they don’t seem to have much urgency towards resolving the flow issue.

Why should they though? It wasn't really negotiated, it was thrown in at the end of the deal in 2019. And it's not a unions job to get you a job somwhere else. Their main legal requirement as a bargaining agent is to protect the jobs they represent and push for better wages and working conditions. Why fix AC and Jazz's flow issue for them? Make them pay.

[canadian_aviator_4]

From the union whenever you approach them regarding flow, be it the mec, lec chairs or anyone else involved they don’t seem to have much urgency towards resolving the flow issue. They indicate a grievance was filed, but don’t know much else. The company is the exact same, indicating Air Canada is hiring jazz pilots, and not much more.

So there is a lot of frustration over the appearance of a lack of concern, along with no communication regarding flow. And subsequent emails from the mec indicating that jazz has an uncertain future.

A petition mentioned earlier would at least capture the attention of leadership, both from union and company standpoint, to possibly give us more answers and push for more urgency. Another idea is for anyone unhappy here to approach company and union leadership and requesting more information regarding the flow issue. I have done this many times already.

Unfortunately in the end it may be quicker to take advantage of the ‘Jazz-Westjet flow program’.

Consensus I’ve gathered from the line suggests the grievance will be dropped and the flow rate will be modified to a lower percentage to support wage increases. The survey showed a majority favouring this approach and it’s just a matter of how much the company is willing to pay, currently not enough.

This is obviously flawed but the senior guys don’t care about flow and that’s our MEC. The last guy I flew with really wanted a new boat.

None of this is 100% verified except the boat part.

Dropping the grievance would be ignoring the damage Jazz and Air Canada have done to the careers of many pilots at Jazz aspiring to go to Air Canada. Far from fair, but not surprising if that is what senior pilots want.

[goleafsgo]

Can’t just say that jazz has no contract in place because one part isn’t being followed and that jazz pilots can strike because of that. That would still be an illegal strike because there still is a contract in place. When something in a contract isn’t being followed it goes through the grievance process. That’s how this all works

[airbussy]

Dropping the grievance would be ignoring the damage Jazz and Air Canada have done to the careers of many pilots at Jazz aspiring to go to Air Canada. Far from fair, but not surprising if that is what senior pilots want.

It's not really about "what Sr pilots want" it's about improving the Jazz WAWCON. Which is Jazz ALPA's main responsibility. It's not Jazz ALPAs responsibility to get pilots a job at Air Canada. Nothing in life is guaranteed, and even the current level of "flow" is better than we saw pre 2015 and from 2016-2018. My career was delayed too because AC started hiring more Encore pilots than Jazz pilots for quite a while. But that's life.

The amount of entitlement coming from Jr Jazz pilots is quite interesting.

[airbussy]

Can’t just say that jazz has no contract in place because one part isn’t being followed and that jazz pilots can strike because of that. That would still be an illegal strike because there still is a contract in place. When something in a contract isn’t being followed it goes through the grievance process. That’s how this all works

It's the instant gratification generation. They wan't it NOW.

[Nick678]

Can’t just say that jazz has no contract in place because one part isn’t being followed and that jazz pilots can strike because of that. That would still be an illegal strike because there still is a contract in place. When something in a contract isn’t being followed it goes through the grievance process. That’s how this all works

You should ask anyone in the MEC how that grievance is going…. I doubt they ever filed it.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Can’t just say that jazz has no contract in place because one part isn’t being followed and that jazz pilots can strike because of that. That would still be an illegal strike because there still is a contract in place. When something in a contract isn’t being followed it goes through the grievance process. That’s how this all works

You should ask anyone in the MEC how that grievance is going…. I doubt they ever filed it.

I think legally if a single member brings up the issue it has to be grieved. These things take time. And in this case, most likely all the way down the process list in terms of time. Arbitrator at the very least. I would expect the better part of a year, possibly longer. Welcome to the red tape

[truedude]

Can’t just say that jazz has no contract in place because one part isn’t being followed and that jazz pilots can strike because of that. That would still be an illegal strike because there still is a contract in place. When something in a contract isn’t being followed it goes through the grievance process. That’s how this all works

You should ask anyone in the MEC how that grievance is going…. I doubt they ever filed it.

I think legally if a single member brings up the issue it has to be grieved. These things take time. And in this case, most likely all the way down the process list in terms of time. Arbitrator at the very least. I would expect the better part of a year, possibly longer. Welcome to the red tape

It is the wait on the arbitrator that will be the issue. There is a long que, and our MEC is trying to get it fast tracked.

[CaptDukeNukem]

You should ask anyone in the MEC how that grievance is going…. I doubt they ever filed it.

I think legally if a single member brings up the issue it has to be grieved. These things take time. And in this case, most likely all the way down the process list in terms of time. Arbitrator at the very least. I would expect the better part of a year, possibly longer. Welcome to the red tape

It is the wait on the arbitrator that will be the issue. There is a long que, and our MEC is trying to get it fast tracked.

Yup. I really hope things can be accelerated for the jazz group. Completely unfair. But I don’t have high hopes anything or very little will come out of this. I have been proven wrong in the past though. Fingers crossed

[cdnavater]

From the union whenever you approach them regarding flow, be it the mec, lec chairs or anyone else involved they don’t seem to have much urgency towards resolving the flow issue. They indicate a grievance was filed, but don’t know much else. The company is the exact same, indicating Air Canada is hiring jazz pilots, and not much more.

So there is a lot of frustration over the appearance of a lack of concern, along with no communication regarding flow. And subsequent emails from the mec indicating that jazz has an uncertain future.

A petition mentioned earlier would at least capture the attention of leadership, both from union and company standpoint, to possibly give us more answers and push for more urgency. Another idea is for anyone unhappy here to approach company and union leadership and requesting more information regarding the flow issue. I have done this many times already.

Unfortunately in the end it may be quicker to take advantage of the ‘Jazz-Westjet flow program’.

Consensus I’ve gathered from the line suggests the grievance will be dropped and the flow rate will be modified to a lower percentage to support wage increases. The survey showed a majority favouring this approach and it’s just a matter of how much the company is willing to pay, currently not enough.

This is obviously flawed but the senior guys don’t care about flow and that’s our MEC. The last guy I flew with really wanted a new boat.

None of this is 100% verified except the boat part.

You know, most of us senior guys have been in this business over 30 years, of course we want a new boat or new….
The flow was what brought you here, since it’s not happening, why not leave! I hear WJ is hiring
I 110% support reduced flow for more money but our(senior guy) wages have been suppressed and falling behind inflation so, damn straight we want a piece of the action!

[hithere]

Jesus christ man, I've been here for 26 years and with three kids I just want to stop paying 19% interest on the credit cards I have just to put food on the table. Whatever idiot you just flew with probably does not have the same bills as the rest of us "senior guys". Probably spends his nights alone making love to screenshots of his bank account. We are not all like that loser

[airbussy]

Can’t just say that jazz has no contract in place because one part isn’t being followed and that jazz pilots can strike because of that. That would still be an illegal strike because there still is a contract in place. When something in a contract isn’t being followed it goes through the grievance process. That’s how this all works

You should ask anyone in the MEC how that grievance is going…. I doubt they ever filed it.

I think legally if a single member brings up the issue it has to be grieved. These things take time. And in this case, most likely all the way down the process list in terms of time. Arbitrator at the very least. I would expect the better part of a year, possibly longer. Welcome to the red tape

Not true. The greivance committee must hear it, and attempt to rectify with the company. If they say no, the MEC has the option to send it to greivance. But not all complaints are greived, nor do they legally have to be.

[rudder]

This is obviously flawed but the senior guys don’t care about flow and that’s our MEC. The last guy I flew with really wanted a new boat.

None of this is 100% verified except the boat part.

If that guy you flew with was 60 years old consider this:

He/she has spent 4 decades working for a living. Probably has a mortgage free home as well.

After you have spent 14,600 days in this industry you might find yourself in the position to buy a boat.

Statistics say that the average 60 year old has 1-23 more years above ground. No guarantees. Cut them some slack.

[canadian_aviator_4]

From the union whenever you approach them regarding flow, be it the mec, lec chairs or anyone else involved they don’t seem to have much urgency towards resolving the flow issue. They indicate a grievance was filed, but don’t know much else. The company is the exact same, indicating Air Canada is hiring jazz pilots, and not much more.

So there is a lot of frustration over the appearance of a lack of concern, along with no communication regarding flow. And subsequent emails from the mec indicating that jazz has an uncertain future.

A petition mentioned earlier would at least capture the attention of leadership, both from union and company standpoint, to possibly give us more answers and push for more urgency. Another idea is for anyone unhappy here to approach company and union leadership and requesting more information regarding the flow issue. I have done this many times already.

Unfortunately in the end it may be quicker to take advantage of the ‘Jazz-Westjet flow program’.

Consensus I’ve gathered from the line suggests the grievance will be dropped and the flow rate will be modified to a lower percentage to support wage increases. The survey showed a majority favouring this approach and it’s just a matter of how much the company is willing to pay, currently not enough.

This is obviously flawed but the senior guys don’t care about flow and that’s our MEC. The last guy I flew with really wanted a new boat.

None of this is 100% verified except the boat part.

You know, most of us senior guys have been in this business over 30 years, of course we want a new boat or new….
The flow was what brought you here, since it’s not happening, why not leave! I hear WJ is hiring
I 110% support reduced flow for more money but our(senior guy) wages have been suppressed and falling behind inflation so, damn straight we want a piece of the action!

The is probably the best advice given in this thread. Leave. Because nothing is going to improve at jazz for a while. We will all achieve instantaneous pay increases going to a number of mainline carriers in Canada and we will eliminate the stress in our lives of dealing with the incompetency that is Jazz. Not to mention getting much more valuable aircraft experience, because if you want to leave Canada companies would much prefer 737 or heavier time instead of regional aircraft.

[Outlaw58]

Consensus I’ve gathered from the line suggests the grievance will be dropped and the flow rate will be modified to a lower percentage to support wage increases. The survey showed a majority favouring this approach and it’s just a matter of how much the company is willing to pay, currently not enough.

This is obviously flawed but the senior guys don’t care about flow and that’s our MEC. The last guy I flew with really wanted a new boat.

None of this is 100% verified except the boat part.

You know, most of us senior guys have been in this business over 30 years, of course we want a new boat or new….
The flow was what brought you here, since it’s not happening, why not leave! I hear WJ is hiring
I 110% support reduced flow for more money but our(senior guy) wages have been suppressed and falling behind inflation so, damn straight we want a piece of the action!

The is probably the best advice given in this thread. Leave. Because nothing is going to improve at jazz for a while. We will all achieve instantaneous pay increases going to a number of mainline carriers in Canada and we will eliminate the stress in our lives of dealing with the incompetency that is Jazz. Not to mention getting much more valuable aircraft experience, because if you want to leave Canada companies would much prefer 737 or heavier time instead of regional aircraft.

CA4,

This may come as a surprise to you, and I say this with the utmost respect, but not everyone feels the way you do.

It is obvious that you are not happy at Jazz, so why have you not followed your own advice yet and left already? Or more to the point, whether you have left or not, why is it so important to you that everyone else leave or not apply as well?

Other pilots may have different backgrounds and career aspirations than you, leading them to make choices different from yours. Based on your level of happiness, one may not be inclined to follow your career advice. I, on the other hand, am happy, so I will offer you a piece of advice. Take control of the variable you can affect, ie your own career choices, and understand that everyone else's career choices have no impact whatsoever on you. Focusing on what others have or do is a sure recipe for eternal unhappiness.

If you are unhappy where you are, look for a job that excites you and you want to do (it may not even be in aviation!)... one that when you wake up in the morning, it doesn't even feel like going to work. When you find that, the dollar value on your paycheck at the end of the month won't aggravate you so much.

Since it appears to be what you want, I sincerely wish AC will call and hire you soon! I hope that once there, you will have a long successful and enriching career, fulfilling all of your aspirations!

Sincerely,

58

[smooth]

You can't until 2035, and Jazz MEC signed the contract black and white. For people who saying AC are not fulfilling their contract getting 60% from Jazz, yes it is true. But if they did hire 60% from Jazz. Jazz will break the contract by not fulfilling the schedule flying due to pilot shortage. And Which one has more a concern for the company? The latter one of course.

[truedude]

You can't until 2035, and Jazz MEC signed the contract black and white. For people who saying AC are not fulfilling their contract getting 60% from Jazz, yes it is true. But if they did hire 60% from Jazz. Jazz will break the contract by not fulfilling the schedule flying due to pilot shortage. And Which one has more a concern for the company? The latter one of course.

Not true. If they had followed the agreement, Jazz would have a bigger pool of pilots to hire from. But AC has made it clear the fastest route to AC is outside of Jazz, thus making it harder for Jazz to hire.

AC created the problem, and are the cause of the problem. And they are reaping what they sowed!

[truedude]

Oh, and whatever moron thought this PAL announcement was a good deal was a moron. We will lose so many pilots in the next month because of that, they won't be in flight ahead of where they are now.

[smooth]

They can have the biggest hiring pool at Jazz but the training department can never catch up though. And if AC is not fulfilling their side of promise, what Jazz have done so far? It's been how many month now?

You can't until 2035, and Jazz MEC signed the contract black and white. For people who saying AC are not fulfilling their contract getting 60% from Jazz, yes it is true. But if they did hire 60% from Jazz. Jazz will break the contract by not fulfilling the schedule flying due to pilot shortage. And Which one has more a concern for the company? The latter one of course.

Not true. If they had followed the agreement, Jazz would have a bigger pool of pilots to hire from. But AC has made it clear the fastest route to AC is outside of Jazz, thus making it harder for Jazz to hire.

AC created the problem, and are the cause of the problem. And they are reaping what they sowed!

[truedude]

They can have the biggest hiring pool at Jazz but the training department can never catch up though. And if AC is not fulfilling their side of promise, what Jazz have done so far? It's been how many month now?

You can't until 2035, and Jazz MEC signed the contract black and white. For people who saying AC are not fulfilling their contract getting 60% from Jazz, yes it is true. But if they did hire 60% from Jazz. Jazz will break the contract by not fulfilling the schedule flying due to pilot shortage. And Which one has more a concern for the company? The latter one of course.

Not true. If they had followed the agreement, Jazz would have a bigger pool of pilots to hire from. But AC has made it clear the fastest route to AC is outside of Jazz, thus making it harder for Jazz to hire.

AC created the problem, and are the cause of the problem. And they are reaping what they sowed!

Well when our trainers are leaving because everyone has signaled Jazz is a sinking ship, this is the result. We are losing more pilots to everywhere else than AC right now. All because they don't want to fix pay or deal with the issue or follow their own agreement.

[smooth]

Yes totally, I know couple Embraer trainer/ACP went to Porter. And I don't blame them, not only their pay is much higher. Year 1 CA starting at $150,000(with trainer pay will be more), with only $100 a month deduction on health benefits. They are dying to have anyone that has Embraer experience and training experience. And Jazz is the biggest hiring pool. Now with Porter opening YUL base....Jazz might loose even more Embraer guys to Porter.

They can have the biggest hiring pool at Jazz but the training department can never catch up though. And if AC is not fulfilling their side of promise, what Jazz have done so far? It's been how many month now?

Not true. If they had followed the agreement, Jazz would have a bigger pool of pilots to hire from. But AC has made it clear the fastest route to AC is outside of Jazz, thus making it harder for Jazz to hire.

AC created the problem, and are the cause of the problem. And they are reaping what they sowed!

Well when our trainers are leaving because everyone has signaled Jazz is a sinking ship, this is the result. We are losing more pilots to everywhere else than AC right now. All because they don't want to fix pay or deal with the issue or follow their own agreement.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Jazz is feeling the result of high attrition already. Yesterday they had the second highest amount of flight cancellations out of any airline worldwide. The summer will only get worse. Overall the next best thing to do besides striking is to leave. Mostly everyone is.