Grooming

[Chaxterium]

Right I'm sure everyone is on the same page. My point is just don't try and find illegitimate ways to get out of it because that's shitty behaviour towards the rest of your crew.

That's all I was trying to get across. I don't like it. We shouldn't be doing it. But I am not going to leave the rest of my crew out in the rain.

I’ll put on gloves if time allows me, until such time where it’s not part of our job anymore.

Agreed. That's really all there is to it.

[cjp]

I've been curious and checking the FOAG - I have yet to dig into the FOM - but can anyone point out where it's stated as crew we must groom the aircraft? And I mean both cabin and flight crew.

[MrAviator19]

I've been curious and checking the FOAG - I have yet to dig into the COM - but can anyone point out where it's stated as crew we must groom the aircraft? And I mean both cabin and flight crew.

SOPs 2.20.3

MrA

[cjp]

I've been curious and checking the FOAG - I have yet to dig into the COM - but can anyone point out where it's stated as crew we must groom the aircraft? And I mean both cabin and flight crew.

SOPs 2.20.3

MrA

Hmmm, that refers to Maximum Performance Landing. None of the manuals under their search function seem to be popping up grooming as part of the standard duties of a flight crew member.

[braaap Braap]

I've been curious and checking the FOAG - I have yet to dig into the FOM - but can anyone point out where it's stated as crew we must groom the aircraft? And I mean both cabin and flight crew.

Im guessing its more on the P&C side (signed offer letter, employee handbook, etc.).

[cjp]

I've been curious and checking the FOAG - I have yet to dig into the FOM - but can anyone point out where it's stated as crew we must groom the aircraft? And I mean both cabin and flight crew.

Im guessing its more on the P&C side (signed offer letter, employee handbook, etc.).

Just reviewed bB, my signature isn't on anything that specifically states air crew must groom as part of their unpaid post flight duty, at least on the E2 side.

I just went through all the regulatory documents regarding duties, and the only ones that refer to grooming are regarding personal in nature (shaved, showered, etc).

Not one document I have access to, and I could very well have missed something in the fine print, specifies crews must spend 20-40 minutes unpaid cleaning cabins post flight.

I'm becoming concerned this is just something that was done early on and the company has expected will continue. If it were mandated by a document, we wouldn't have here and there grooming services at different out stations. I think we are guilting ourselves, cabin crew included, into grooming the aircraft.

The plot thickens my friends.

[Wayans]

I've been curious and checking the FOAG - I have yet to dig into the FOM - but can anyone point out where it's stated as crew we must groom the aircraft? And I mean both cabin and flight crew.

Im guessing its more on the P&C side (signed offer letter, employee handbook, etc.).

Just reviewed bB, my signature isn't on anything that specifically states air crew must groom as part of their unpaid post flight duty, at least on the E2 side.

I just went through all the regulatory documents regarding duties, and the only ones that refer to grooming are regarding personal in nature (shaved, showered, etc).

Not one document I have access to, and I could very well have missed something in the fine print, specifies crews must spend 20-40 minutes unpaid cleaning cabins post flight.

I'm becoming concerned this is just something that was done early on and the company has expected will continue. If it were mandated by a document, we wouldn't have here and there grooming services at different out stations. I think we are guilting ourselves, cabin crew included, into grooming the aircraft.

The plot thickens my friends.

Bulletin 1126, which references FOM 1.2.8.1.1 (b).

As others have stated, just do it for now to support your cabin crew and stay together as a team. It will hopefully change, as no one likes it - pilots or cabin crew alike.

[cjp]

Im guessing its more on the P&C side (signed offer letter, employee handbook, etc.).

Just reviewed bB, my signature isn't on anything that specifically states air crew must groom as part of their unpaid post flight duty, at least on the E2 side.

I just went through all the regulatory documents regarding duties, and the only ones that refer to grooming are regarding personal in nature (shaved, showered, etc).

Not one document I have access to, and I could very well have missed something in the fine print, specifies crews must spend 20-40 minutes unpaid cleaning cabins post flight.

I'm becoming concerned this is just something that was done early on and the company has expected will continue. If it were mandated by a document, we wouldn't have here and there grooming services at different out stations. I think we are guilting ourselves, cabin crew included, into grooming the aircraft.

The plot thickens my friends.

Bulletin 1126, which references FOM 1.2.8.1.1 (b).

As others have stated, just do it for now to support your cabin crew and stay together as a team. It will hopefully change, as no one likes it - pilots or cabin crew alike.

Thank you Wayans, I see mentioned the 'unwritten rule' that we assist the inflight supervisor in their tasks as a relatively recent addition to the bulletins - post creation of the PACL operation.

The thing is, if we banded together, cabin crew and pilot's leaving no crew member behind, and requested grooming at stations without pre arranged grooming, thereby refusing to do the major cleaning beyond cleaning our stations, things would likely change a lot faster. The problem is too many are willing to spend 30 minutes deep cleaning the back which is not accounted for in your duty day when you should be getting home or to the hotel to rest.

I was hopeful in my expections that this too would be sorted out by our FOAG on the last benchmark, but was left scratching my head.

[cdnavater]

Just reviewed bB, my signature isn't on anything that specifically states air crew must groom as part of their unpaid post flight duty, at least on the E2 side.

I just went through all the regulatory documents regarding duties, and the only ones that refer to grooming are regarding personal in nature (shaved, showered, etc).

Not one document I have access to, and I could very well have missed something in the fine print, specifies crews must spend 20-40 minutes unpaid cleaning cabins post flight.

I'm becoming concerned this is just something that was done early on and the company has expected will continue. If it were mandated by a document, we wouldn't have here and there grooming services at different out stations. I think we are guilting ourselves, cabin crew included, into grooming the aircraft.

The plot thickens my friends.

Bulletin 1126, which references FOM 1.2.8.1.1 (b).

As others have stated, just do it for now to support your cabin crew and stay together as a team. It will hopefully change, as no one likes it - pilots or cabin crew alike.

Thank you Wayans, I see mentioned the 'unwritten rule' that we assist the inflight supervisor in their tasks as a relatively recent addition to the bulletins - post creation of the PACL operation.

The thing is, if we banded together, cabin crew and pilot's leaving no crew member behind, and requested grooming at stations without pre arranged grooming, thereby refusing to do the major cleaning beyond cleaning our stations, things would likely change a lot faster. The problem is too many are willing to spend 30 minutes deep cleaning the back which is not accounted for in your duty day when you should be getting home or to the hotel to rest.

I was hopeful in my expections that this too would be sorted out by our FOAG on the last benchmark, but was left scratching my head.

WTF, you deep clean for the last flight of the day, am I reading this correctly.
BTW, it absolutely counts as duty, you call Crewsked and tell them I’m just leaving the airport so my travel to hotel starts now!
If I’m ever delayed for anything that is related to my job, I’m still on duty, no ifs, ands or buts about it, I will call in and let them know when I’m available for duty again and if that delays the morning flight, so be it!

[Chaxterium]

WTF, you deep clean for the last flight of the day, am I reading this correctly.

I've never "deep cleaned" after a flight. So I'm not sure what they're talking about.

BTW, it absolutely counts as duty,

Absofuckinglutely. I call dispatch when I get to the hotel and I have my room key in mind hand. This has not been an issue.

[flyinhigh]

Per our memo, the only written duty they tie flight crew to is the Flight Attendant duties in the FOM.

I 100% did not sign up or know that we are suppose to groom a jet when I signed up. I will assist when able, AFTER all flight duties have been completed.

I’ve also been told by an FA to go away as we are apparently suppose to have a way of organizing the literature in the seat pockets etc. yeah I failed at that as I don’t do it, never been trained to do it.

The FOAG could kill this by employing estoppel, but in a non-unionized environment, I don’t know if it could work.

[cjp]

Bulletin 1126, which references FOM 1.2.8.1.1 (b).

As others have stated, just do it for now to support your cabin crew and stay together as a team. It will hopefully change, as no one likes it - pilots or cabin crew alike.

Thank you Wayans, I see mentioned the 'unwritten rule' that we assist the inflight supervisor in their tasks as a relatively recent addition to the bulletins - post creation of the PACL operation.

The thing is, if we banded together, cabin crew and pilot's leaving no crew member behind, and requested grooming at stations without pre arranged grooming, thereby refusing to do the major cleaning beyond cleaning our stations, things would likely change a lot faster. The problem is too many are willing to spend 30 minutes deep cleaning the back which is not accounted for in your duty day when you should be getting home or to the hotel to rest.

I was hopeful in my expections that this too would be sorted out by our FOAG on the last benchmark, but was left scratching my head.

WTF, you deep clean for the last flight of the day, am I reading this correctly.
BTW, it absolutely counts as duty, you call Crewsked and tell them I’m just leaving the airport so my travel to hotel starts now!
If I’m ever delayed for anything that is related to my job, I’m still on duty, no ifs, ands or buts about it, I will call in and let them know when I’m available for duty again and if that delays the morning flight, so be it!

Not for terminators, but if it's continuing on even though your pairing has ended, crews will clean the cabin for the next operating crew.