E2

[flyinhigh]

If you hear a complaint about the seat whilst in flight, ask your colleague if they have been shown how to adjust the vertical position of the back rest (as opposed to the vertical position of the seat). I've encountered people who have operated the airplane for two years and don't know about it. It makes a difference.

Backrest doesn’t help with my arse.

[cjp]

Stop entertaining the troll.

It's the spice of avcanada life. It's a fine balance of feeding the beast and occasionally becoming the beast.

[wcpilot]

Anyone have any guesses how long it will take for a new hire to hold YVR base?

[flyinhigh]

Anyone have any guesses how long it will take for a new hire to hold YVR base?

Will depend when they open it, YVR is junior base currently held by individual who are about 1 year service.

[Me262]

Anyone have any guesses how long it will take for a new hire to hold YVR base?

Will depend when they open it, YVR is junior base currently held by individual who are about 1 year service.

Waiting for Porter to show Jazz and AC how is done with direct hires at different bases /pagingMrDukeNukem

[CaptDukeNukem]

Anyone have any guesses how long it will take for a new hire to hold YVR base?

Will depend when they open it, YVR is junior base currently held by individual who are about 1 year service.

Waiting for Porter to show Jazz and AC how is done with direct hires at different bases /pagingMrDukeNukem

My pager stopped working in 1996. Right now, at least you know what equipment you’ll be flying and what base you’ll be initially. I don’t know what else you want from me. They are hiring FOs for YYZ. Can you potentially hold bases elsewhere. Quite possibly.

[cdnavater]

Will depend when they open it, YVR is junior base currently held by individual who are about 1 year service.

Waiting for Porter to show Jazz and AC how is done with direct hires at different bases /pagingMrDukeNukem

My pager stopped working in 1996. Right now, at least you know what equipment you’ll be flying and what base you’ll be initially. I don’t know what else you want from me. They are hiring FOs for YYZ. Can you potentially hold bases elsewhere. Quite possibly.

Still have your head firmly up your ass I see, Porter puts all pilots in Toronto to save money on training costs, plain and simple! Could you hold a different base, not until after your initial training that’s for damn sure.

[Speedbrakes]

Porter puts all pilots in Toronto to save money on training costs, plain and simple! Could you hold a different base, not until after your initial training that’s for damn sure.

Well not all pilots. We've had a number of transfers of Ottawa-based Q pilots coming over to the E2 and still holding an Ottawa base on the E2. So they're getting a hotel and per diems.

The spirit of your comment is correct though. No new-hires are getting anything other than Toronto. I'd love to see that change. Hiring for a Vancouver or Montreal base directly would probably encourage more applications. But that may be a ways off.

[cdnavater]

Porter puts all pilots in Toronto to save money on training costs, plain and simple! Could you hold a different base, not until after your initial training that’s for damn sure.

Well not all pilots. We've had a number of transfers of Ottawa-based Q pilots coming over to the E2 and still holding an Ottawa base on the E2. So they're getting a hotel and per diems.

The spirit of your comment is correct though. No new-hires are getting anything other than Toronto. I'd love to see that change. Hiring for a Vancouver or Montreal base directly would probably encourage more applications. But that may be a ways off.

Yah, I was specifically referring to new hires, I wasn’t clear though, that is a difference between a union and non union environment though.
Jazz is not perfect, obviously but all new hires including if awarded YYZ are in hotels and per diems and posi-space home and to base for the duration of initial training.

[Speedbrakes]

Yah, I was specifically referring to new hires, I wasn’t clear though, that is a difference between a union and non union environment though.
Jazz is not perfect, obviously but all new hires including if awarded YYZ are in hotels and per diems and posi-space home and to base for the duration of initial training.

Should be the case at Porter too. Honestly it's a shame that it's not.

[goingnowherefast]

Just tell the recruiting person YVR/YOW/YUL or nothing. If one doesn't want YYZ, don't accept it.

[canadianfly]

Just tell the recruiting person YVR/YOW/YUL or nothing. If one doesn't want YYZ, don't accept it.

Absolutely,

The minute we start making points things will start changing, it will hit us on the face for sure, so what, there are plenty of jobs out there.
If something is itching you from day one, you're gonna end up quitting anyway.

[Timetoflyagain]

…there hasn’t been any direct non-YYZ base hires because the “outbase” positions are offered to existing crew first…and awarded accordingly. They all chose to grab a number and commute until the base opened or expanded.

[cjp]

Porter puts all pilots in Toronto to save money on training costs, plain and simple! Could you hold a different base, not until after your initial training that’s for damn sure.

Well not all pilots. We've had a number of transfers of Ottawa-based Q pilots coming over to the E2 and still holding an Ottawa base on the E2. So they're getting a hotel and per diems.

The spirit of your comment is correct though. No new-hires are getting anything other than Toronto. I'd love to see that change. Hiring for a Vancouver or Montreal base directly would probably encourage more applications. But that may be a ways off.

Yah, I was specifically referring to new hires, I wasn’t clear though, that is a difference between a union and non union environment though.
Jazz is not perfect, obviously but all new hires including if awarded YYZ are in hotels and per diems and posi-space home and to base for the duration of initial training.

That's probably because FOs were making what? 39k dollars. Eating 1500-2000 dollars in additional training benefits is a lot easier than paying a proper wage. That's what a unionized environment allowed, including a double decade long locked contract - for flow to AC at YR1 pay. Jazz is NOT the beacon of holiness and is more an example of where ALPA really has gone wrong, only making gains more recently when Porter bled your flight line near dry.

I have no idea what your starting wage is now except it's not comparable. Porter went more for the pay better day 1 and you decide how you want to organize yourself. Good chance once the boys at AC teeter one way or the other, we'll benchmark and then it will be interesting to see who stays at Jazz.

[cdnavater]

Well not all pilots. We've had a number of transfers of Ottawa-based Q pilots coming over to the E2 and still holding an Ottawa base on the E2. So they're getting a hotel and per diems.

The spirit of your comment is correct though. No new-hires are getting anything other than Toronto. I'd love to see that change. Hiring for a Vancouver or Montreal base directly would probably encourage more applications. But that may be a ways off.

Yah, I was specifically referring to new hires, I wasn’t clear though, that is a difference between a union and non union environment though.
Jazz is not perfect, obviously but all new hires including if awarded YYZ are in hotels and per diems and posi-space home and to base for the duration of initial training.

That's probably because FOs were making what? 39k dollars. Eating 1500-2000 dollars in additional training benefits is a lot easier than paying a proper wage. That's what a unionized environment allowed, including a double decade long locked contract - for flow to AC at YR1 pay. Jazz is NOT the beacon of holiness and is more an example of where ALPA really has gone wrong, only making gains more recently when Porter bled your flight line near dry.

I have no idea what your starting wage is now except it's not comparable. Porter went more for the pay better day 1 and you decide how you want to organize yourself. Good chance once the boys at AC teeter one way or the other, we'll benchmark and then it will be interesting to see who stays at Jazz.

Exaggerate much! It was 48k, thanks to your buddy Duke who willingly undercut Jazz working for a scab airline, based on your attitude I’m gueyou probably did that too!
It’s now starting the same as your Q operation and goes much much higher, so I wouldn’t get up there too high on your horse there bud, the only reason Porter is paying what they are is because their application pile wasn’t enough to fill positions they needed, that is it! It’s not because they value you, you are just an autopilot with a pulse to them, let that sink in!
If you don’t get a union, you will be eating some crow in the future, to that I say, good look on you!
Before you say one word on the fact it’s compared to your Q op, that’s the size of aircraft we operate, it is what it is, hopefully they have to pay more after the CIRB hearing

[cjp]

Yah, I was specifically referring to new hires, I wasn’t clear though, that is a difference between a union and non union environment though.
Jazz is not perfect, obviously but all new hires including if awarded YYZ are in hotels and per diems and posi-space home and to base for the duration of initial training.

That's probably because FOs were making what? 39k dollars. Eating 1500-2000 dollars in additional training benefits is a lot easier than paying a proper wage. That's what a unionized environment allowed, including a double decade long locked contract - for flow to AC at YR1 pay. Jazz is NOT the beacon of holiness and is more an example of where ALPA really has gone wrong, only making gains more recently when Porter bled your flight line near dry.

I have no idea what your starting wage is now except it's not comparable. Porter went more for the pay better day 1 and you decide how you want to organize yourself. Good chance once the boys at AC teeter one way or the other, we'll benchmark and then it will be interesting to see who stays at Jazz.

Exaggerate much! It was 48k, thanks to your buddy Duke who willingly undercut Jazz working for a scab airline, based on your attitude I’m gueyou probably did that too!
It’s now starting the same as your Q operation and goes much much higher, so I wouldn’t get up there too high on your horse there bud, the only reason Porter is paying what they are is because their application pile wasn’t enough to fill positions they needed, that is it! It’s not because they value you, you are just an autopilot with a pulse to them, let that sink in!
If you don’t get a union, you will be eating some crow in the future, to that I say, good look on you!
Before you say one word on the fact it’s compared to your Q op, that’s the size of aircraft we operate, it is what it is, hopefully they have to pay more after the CIRB hearing

No - I never went that route - the Air Canada banner was too disappointing a brand for me to get behind. I bypassed all the CPA carriers and interviewed years ago at AC, and couldn't get behind flat pay - too much of a slap in the face. I know you are fully commited to retiring there - Jazz that is, not AC. I don't actually know who Capt Duke Nukem is. We likely get along well in real life cause I know all the E1 guys.

I remember not so long ago, Jazz pay being 39k for the entire fleet, glad it's improved marginally - you say starting pay is 48k? See competition is good - even if it is a "Scab" airline, lol. Thankfully Porter has 2 different payscales.

Something about ALPA in Canada leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Jazz is sort of the perfect example of how things can go so wrong. I know you've been there decades and watched the changes and been apart of the slow dismantling. I hear crow tastes like chicken, I've got sauce for that. 3 hours in the oven at 325, followed by 5-8 minutes to char on the bbq.

The funny thing is the guys I know, who know you in real life, and have flown with you, are surprised at why you are so fiery online because it's almost opposite to your in person persona. I can imagine you're probably living well but feeling a little golden handcuffed and envious of the E2 and your fire online is how you release some of that energy, I guess we all do that from time to time. I get it though.

CIRB is going to be wholly disappointing if anything happens at all.

Good luck.

[cdnavater]

That's probably because FOs were making what? 39k dollars. Eating 1500-2000 dollars in additional training benefits is a lot easier than paying a proper wage. That's what a unionized environment allowed, including a double decade long locked contract - for flow to AC at YR1 pay. Jazz is NOT the beacon of holiness and is more an example of where ALPA really has gone wrong, only making gains more recently when Porter bled your flight line near dry.

I have no idea what your starting wage is now except it's not comparable. Porter went more for the pay better day 1 and you decide how you want to organize yourself. Good chance once the boys at AC teeter one way or the other, we'll benchmark and then it will be interesting to see who stays at Jazz.

Exaggerate much! It was 48k, thanks to your buddy Duke who willingly undercut Jazz working for a scab airline, based on your attitude I’m gueyou probably did that too!
It’s now starting the same as your Q operation and goes much much higher, so I wouldn’t get up there too high on your horse there bud, the only reason Porter is paying what they are is because their application pile wasn’t enough to fill positions they needed, that is it! It’s not because they value you, you are just an autopilot with a pulse to them, let that sink in!
If you don’t get a union, you will be eating some crow in the future, to that I say, good look on you!
Before you say one word on the fact it’s compared to your Q op, that’s the size of aircraft we operate, it is what it is, hopefully they have to pay more after the CIRB hearing

No - I never went that route - the Air Canada banner was too disappointing a brand for me to get behind. I bypassed all the CPA carriers and interviewed years ago at AC, and couldn't get behind flat pay - too much of a slap in the face. I know you are fully commited to retiring there - Jazz that is, not AC. I don't actually know who Capt Duke Nukem is. We likely get along well in real life cause I know all the E1 guys.

I remember not so long ago, Jazz pay being 39k for the entire fleet, glad it's improved marginally - you say starting pay is 48k? See competition is good - even if it is a "Scab" airline, lol. Thankfully Porter has 2 different payscales.

Something about ALPA in Canada leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Jazz is sort of the perfect example of how things can go so wrong. I know you've been there decades and watched the changes and been apart of the slow dismantling. I hear crow tastes like chicken, I've got sauce for that. 3 hours in the oven at 325, followed by 5-8 minutes to char on the bbq.

The funny thing is the guys I know, who know you in real life, and have flown with you, are surprised at why you are so fiery online because it's almost opposite to your in person persona. I can imagine you're probably living well but feeling a little golden handcuffed and envious of the E2 and your fire online is how you release some of that energy, I guess we all do that from time to time. I get it though.

CIRB is going to be wholly disappointing if anything happens at all.

Good luck.

Hey, thanks for that, I appreciate the response, I’m probably fiery on line because of my feelings on how the people partly responsible like to blame Jazz pilots for the downfall.
That being said, glad you skipped the BS and found a place you like, I’m not saying ALPA is the way to go but a union to protect your interest before it’s too late, genuinely concerned for Porter pilots.
I do like what Porter is doing for pilot pay in Canada and hope it continues and not just until the music stops, I would love nothing more than being wrong about your management pulling the rug out from under you when they no longer are in full growth mode.
As for Jazz, we were never 39k that I recall, I started at 48k many moons ago, it went up and then back down after SR undercut us.
It’s now, starting at 66.25/hr, at 80/month is 63,400, not great but a far cry from 39k.
FO tops out at 105.17 this year, Captain tops at 168.33, admittedly takes a while to get to that.
We used to be something I was proud to say I worked at, a career stop for many, now not so much. I hope we can get back to something at least better and I’m fairly confident the CIRB will at the very least award us the contract that was negotiated in the first place, not what we ended up with.
Take care, gotta run

[twa22]

So, let's get some numbers straightened out

Starting FO pay at Jazz before the MOS was 43.30 per hour for YR1 FO. The MMG is 75, NOT 80... and a good chunk of FOs on various fleets have been blocked at 77.5 for a while now due to not enough captains, so taking the MMG, pre MOS, and cjp is correct, the starting pay was 38,970, assuming MMG... now I understand that being blocked at 75 hours almost never happens, so for the sake of argument, we will use 80 hour credit, every month, and we get 41,568... not much better.

That said, Porter Dash rates were better, but not by a lot, and the raise occurred just shortly before the Jazz MOS

viewtopic.php?t=195682&sid=3960224f8865 ... 5a458160d5

Based off the numbers from this thread, starting pay was 50.01 per hour, at an MMG of 80, which gives 48000 a year... assuming MMG is used to calculate yearly salary, Porter indeed was paying about 9k more per year on the Dash then Jazz pre summer 2023

[cjp]

Exaggerate much! It was 48k, thanks to your buddy Duke who willingly undercut Jazz working for a scab airline, based on your attitude I’m gueyou probably did that too!
It’s now starting the same as your Q operation and goes much much higher, so I wouldn’t get up there too high on your horse there bud, the only reason Porter is paying what they are is because their application pile wasn’t enough to fill positions they needed, that is it! It’s not because they value you, you are just an autopilot with a pulse to them, let that sink in!
If you don’t get a union, you will be eating some crow in the future, to that I say, good look on you!
Before you say one word on the fact it’s compared to your Q op, that’s the size of aircraft we operate, it is what it is, hopefully they have to pay more after the CIRB hearing

No - I never went that route - the Air Canada banner was too disappointing a brand for me to get behind. I bypassed all the CPA carriers and interviewed years ago at AC, and couldn't get behind flat pay - too much of a slap in the face. I know you are fully commited to retiring there - Jazz that is, not AC. I don't actually know who Capt Duke Nukem is. We likely get along well in real life cause I know all the E1 guys.

I remember not so long ago, Jazz pay being 39k for the entire fleet, glad it's improved marginally - you say starting pay is 48k? See competition is good - even if it is a "Scab" airline, lol. Thankfully Porter has 2 different payscales.

Something about ALPA in Canada leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Jazz is sort of the perfect example of how things can go so wrong. I know you've been there decades and watched the changes and been apart of the slow dismantling. I hear crow tastes like chicken, I've got sauce for that. 3 hours in the oven at 325, followed by 5-8 minutes to char on the bbq.

The funny thing is the guys I know, who know you in real life, and have flown with you, are surprised at why you are so fiery online because it's almost opposite to your in person persona. I can imagine you're probably living well but feeling a little golden handcuffed and envious of the E2 and your fire online is how you release some of that energy, I guess we all do that from time to time. I get it though.

CIRB is going to be wholly disappointing if anything happens at all.

Good luck.

Hey, thanks for that, I appreciate the response, I’m probably fiery on line because of my feelings on how the people partly responsible like to blame Jazz pilots for the downfall.
That being said, glad you skipped the BS and found a place you like, I’m not saying ALPA is the way to go but a union to protect your interest before it’s too late, genuinely concerned for Porter pilots.
I do like what Porter is doing for pilot pay in Canada and hope it continues and not just until the music stops, I would love nothing more than being wrong about your management pulling the rug out from under you when they no longer are in full growth mode.
As for Jazz, we were never 39k that I recall, I started at 48k many moons ago, it went up and then back down after SR undercut us.
It’s now, starting at 66.25/hr, at 80/month is 63,400, not great but a far cry from 39k.
FO tops out at 105.17 this year, Captain tops at 168.33, admittedly takes a while to get to that.
We used to be something I was proud to say I worked at, a career stop for many, now not so much. I hope we can get back to something at least better and I’m fairly confident the CIRB will at the very least award us the contract that was negotiated in the first place, not what we ended up with.
Take care, gotta run

First off, the problem for Jazz is that they operate for Air Canada, who are vicious proponents of lowered standards for their flight crew compensation, and thus pass those discounts onto their CPA carriers. They signal, that they firmly believe Jazz is entirely replaceable, which is a scary place to be.

I focus on the E2 side versus the Dash side as that is where most people will likely end up here due to the scheduling efficiency and creature comfort the jet awards. Salary wise I would expect to see FO pay improving here along with Captain's, which will give Jazz ALPA even more ammo to work with, but I don't see the Big Red Overlord being happy with giving anymore, and instead choosing to snuff out this organization that keeps putting out its hand - a la Encore.

The Porter growth, which will likely extend beyond 2027 at this point, due to market adoption, will continue to create significant demand for flight crew. I would imagine for the next 5 to 10 years until training supply and controlled immigration can help to stabilize the steady retirement of Baby Boomer and older Gen X pilots, then we might need to worry. For now though pilots are in a safe spot, particularly at Porter.

[canadianfly]

Exaggerate much! It was 48k, thanks to your buddy Duke who willingly undercut Jazz working for a scab airline, based on your attitude I’m gueyou probably did that too!
It’s now starting the same as your Q operation and goes much much higher, so I wouldn’t get up there too high on your horse there bud, the only reason Porter is paying what they are is because their application pile wasn’t enough to fill positions they needed, that is it! It’s not because they value you, you are just an autopilot with a pulse to them, let that sink in!
If you don’t get a union, you will be eating some crow in the future, to that I say, good look on you!
Before you say one word on the fact it’s compared to your Q op, that’s the size of aircraft we operate, it is what it is, hopefully they have to pay more after the CIRB hearing

No - I never went that route - the Air Canada banner was too disappointing a brand for me to get behind. I bypassed all the CPA carriers and interviewed years ago at AC, and couldn't get behind flat pay - too much of a slap in the face. I know you are fully commited to retiring there - Jazz that is, not AC. I don't actually know who Capt Duke Nukem is. We likely get along well in real life cause I know all the E1 guys.

I remember not so long ago, Jazz pay being 39k for the entire fleet, glad it's improved marginally - you say starting pay is 48k? See competition is good - even if it is a "Scab" airline, lol. Thankfully Porter has 2 different payscales.

Something about ALPA in Canada leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Jazz is sort of the perfect example of how things can go so wrong. I know you've been there decades and watched the changes and been apart of the slow dismantling. I hear crow tastes like chicken, I've got sauce for that. 3 hours in the oven at 325, followed by 5-8 minutes to char on the bbq.

The funny thing is the guys I know, who know you in real life, and have flown with you, are surprised at why you are so fiery online because it's almost opposite to your in person persona. I can imagine you're probably living well but feeling a little golden handcuffed and envious of the E2 and your fire online is how you release some of that energy, I guess we all do that from time to time. I get it though.

CIRB is going to be wholly disappointing if anything happens at all.

Good luck.

Hey, thanks for that, I appreciate the response, I’m probably fiery on line because of my feelings on how the people partly responsible like to blame Jazz pilots for the downfall.
That being said, glad you skipped the BS and found a place you like, I’m not saying ALPA is the way to go but a union to protect your interest before it’s too late, genuinely concerned for Porter pilots.
I do like what Porter is doing for pilot pay in Canada and hope it continues and not just until the music stops, I would love nothing more than being wrong about your management pulling the rug out from under you when they no longer are in full growth mode.
As for Jazz, we were never 39k that I recall, I started at 48k many moons ago, it went up and then back down after SR undercut us.
It’s now, starting at 66.25/hr, at 80/month is 63,400, not great but a far cry from 39k.
FO tops out at 105.17 this year, Captain tops at 168.33, admittedly takes a while to get to that.
We used to be something I was proud to say I worked at, a career stop for many, now not so much. I hope we can get back to something at least better and I’m fairly confident the CIRB will at the very least award us the contract that was negotiated in the first place, not what we ended up with.
Take care, gotta run

I can assure you that i faced a 36K heat wave at Jazz a few moons back, with management taking 1M+ bonus. I'm not doing this job for money but i refuse to prostitute myself, with all due respect to the prostitutes.

[Me262]

So, let's get some numbers straightened out

Starting FO pay at Jazz before the MOS was 43.30 per hour for YR1 FO. The MMG is 75, NOT 80... and a good chunk of FOs on various fleets have been blocked at 77.5 for a while now due to not enough captains, so taking the MMG, pre MOS, and cjp is correct, the starting pay was 38,970, assuming MMG... now I understand that being blocked at 75 hours almost never happens, so for the sake of argument, we will use 80 hour credit, every month, and we get 41,568... not much better.

That said, Porter Dash rates were better, but not by a lot, and the raise occurred just shortly before the Jazz MOS

viewtopic.php?t=195682&sid=3960224f8865 ... 5a458160d5

Based off the numbers from this thread, starting pay was 50.01 per hour, at an MMG of 80, which gives 48000 a year... assuming MMG is used to calculate yearly salary, Porter indeed was paying about 9k more per year on the Dash then Jazz pre summer 2023

MMG is 77.5 point blank. Not 75 and definitely not 80 or 82.5 as cdnavater likes to promote. Lots of fleet/bases FOs had to deal with 77.5 during the summer and now fall.

A YO1 FO can plan their lives off 61612.5/yr currently lower than YO1 FO at encore or porter dash operations

[flyinhigh]

So how about that E2 eh..

[DanWEC]

So how about that E2 eh..

What? This is about Jazz. Keep up!

[Apestogetherstrong]

To: All Air Canada Pilots

From: ACA MEC

Re: Upcoming Compensation and Benefits Proposal

Fellow Pilots,

As the voting process commenced, it became apparent that within a span of six hours, the Company requested an update on the voting participation among pilots. The response rate was an impressive 79.7%. The rapidity of this voting suggests a significant inclination towards opposing the current proposal.

In light of these developments, Air Canada management engaged in discussions with the ACA MEC, expressing a desire to secure pilot support. They acknowledged the financial obligations faced by many pilots, including debts, mortgages, and familial responsibilities.

Recognizing that numerous pilots under the flat pay structure possess considerable experience, the Company has come to understand the necessity of ensuring that these pilots do not seek supplemental employment in various sectors, such as ride-sharing, grocery services, culinary positions, construction, and call centers.

In consultation with legal advisors, the ACA MEC has accepted the Company's proposal, with the stipulation that an additional 40% salary increase be granted to Trainers. The conditions agreed upon are as follows:

All pilots in Years 1 and 2 will receive a Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) of $12,000, to be disbursed in monthly installments.
All pilots in Years 3 and 4 will receive a COLA of $9,800, to be disbursed in monthly installments.
Air Canada will provide a family stipend of $9,500 for the first child, $6,800 for the second child, and $4,000 for each subsequent child, up to a maximum of $26,000 per year, payable in monthly installments. This stipulation applies to pilots in Years 1 through 4.
The Company will grant eight B1 passes to all pilots, though retroactive passes for the year 2023 will not be provided.
We welcome this initiative and appreciate the Company’s effort to recognize and value the contributions of Air Canada pilots, thereby establishing a solid foundation for a world-class contract. Further details will be communicated shortly through a video message from the MEC. Please remain vigilant for updates in your email.

In Unity,
ACA MEC

[Me262]

So how about that E2 eh..

What? This is about Jazz. Keep up!

Misery loves misery, you know you like it