Who started this crap??

[Fox 3]

El Combat, your a dork!!!!...and what the f--- do you know about perimeters SOP's keep your little mouth shut about other operators thats the kind of thing that gets your faggot ass kicked in the Bars.

Give it a rest tough guy, go flex in the mirror some more.

[hazatude]

This is truly a wonderful thread. I'm submitting it to Jerry!

[Fox 3]

yes, and I didn't help it one bit.

Sorry I just get annoyed at people with nothing of value to say...although I had nothing of value to say either.

Damn, now I'm really annoyed.

~FOX~

[nimbostratus]

RFN Wrote:

Nimbostratus: Are there not "discreet" freqs that you can use eg. 122.5, out of YWG or YEG etc. to pick up that weather? I don't venture as high up as you do (nosebleeds, and compressor stalls) but that might be easier, and with much less interruptions. For us down low, those calls for weather end up blocking many calls at once, and make it quite difficult when we are in tight to a busy, uncontrolled airport.

RFN you are absolutely correct. 122.5 is an excellent option to use to obtain enroute weather updates. Unfortunately most of the (FISE) and (RAAS) frequencies don't seem to be reserved for this purpose nor are they seperated by altitude. In short, if I'm on my way into Sandspit on a typical snarly Queen Charlotte day I could try them for a weather update on their published Terrace rdo (RAAS) of 122.3. Unfortunately while I am doing this I am stepping all over the MF at the airport I am going to (yup also 122.3 Terrace rdo.) So I'm holding up people making calls on an MF (mandatory calls, picking up IFR clearances etc. on the ground or in the air at Sandspit). And believe me this happens at lots of other airports as well.
Anyway, the point is moot, Sandspit does have an AWOS. But by the time we are in range we are at a busy time on the approach and still have to make the mandatory calls on 122.3 and 126.7. (Time is short when you're going 10 miles a minute). Calling early lets us come up with a better arrival plan, check our alternate weather, and complete our landing data.
I am just saying it would be nice to have a few regional, altitude based frequencies for enroute weather acquisition. And maybe publish them somewhere that is easy to find weather you are using CAP, Jeppeson, or NOA charts.

If this exists and I've been smoking crack the past few years, someone please let me know...

Nimbo

[RFN]

Nimbostratus,
I haven't done any professional flying in B.C. (yet) so I figured I would look up Sandspit, Quesnel, Smithers, Prince Rupert etc. in the CFS.
They all have references to the FISE being Pacific Radio on 126.7
I am surprised at that; it's not as common out here (Ontario or Manitoba). It does exist in some places, but usually we're high enough up to pick up a different FISE from somewhere else.
I guess when you are too low to pick up another freq, there's not much you can do. I airfiled a flightplan on 126.7 once because I couldn't reach anyone else. It was pretty nasty. If it had been a busy Monday, I probably would've blocked 20-25 calls.
I wasn't thinking so much of calling for wx when in a bit closer. I was thinking more of the guys that call over Northern Ontario for the wx in Montreal, that kind of thing. When you're that high up, you should be able to reach someone's discreet freq. (I would think; I've not been up there). I suppose there could be some frequency overlap, but the worst I could think of is that on 122.5, you might get Edmonton and Winnipeg at the same time. I would think the same would be true of 126.7

Maybe try the Dial-Up RCOs. If you're over Manitoba and you want wx, you could try Berens River's (Winnipeg FSS) Dial up on 123.55. I don't believe that freq is shared by anyone else (again I may be wrong because I don't get above FL280).

[ODDERGUY]

Oh Fox3....So young!!!!!!!

[Fox 3]

indeed I am...thank you for the compliment.

[Dog]

I think some are missing the point... If the radio is so busy that people can't get traffic calls in then it's appropriate to make calls concise. However if there's been dead air for the last twenty minutes, then who gives a crap if someone is a little long-winded?

I always get a kick out of someone telling me to switch to another freq to bs while I'm droning up the coast in the twighlight even though I haven't heard another a/c talking for half an hour!? Sorry pal but I only have one comm and if I switch then I won't hear traffic. That and it the only social life I have so give me a break.

[Hedley]

It's not just a waste of bandwidth ... someone who tacks on a gratuitous "conflicting traffic please advise on 12X.X" is rather insultingly implying that everyone else is too stupid to transmit if they see a problem.

Who knows, after reading this thread, maybe they're right

[Spokes]

Still???!!! You people need to get a life. It's a small thing.

[weasello]

I used to be all about efficiency, but after one little incident I started adding "conflicting please advise" on the end there.

I wandered into an uncontrolled airport and tuned in the MF. I caught the last end of a call, "... undred feet, heading south, XYZ area traffic."

My call was

"XYZ Traffic, IDENT C172 currently 6 mi E of airport 2000 feet transiting the area due W, IDENT XYZ Traffic"

... No activity. I knew someone was in the area but couldn't get a visual. A few minutes later,

"C172 THAT JUST MADE THE CALL A MINUTE AGO, HOLY SHIT I JUST ABOUT HIT YOU WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING, I JUST CALLED WHERE I WAS JESUS"

... I could rant on about that pilot or continue the story, but I think you get the point! By adding on "... please advise" it is admitting that you don't think there are currently any conflicts, you aren't sure of the situation in the area already, and you're asking for input. It sounds a bit more professional than "Just arriving, what's up?"

ever since then I've used "conflicting please advise" towards the end.

As far as the repeating your ident at the end, I go one step farther and repeat the area I'm broadcasting to as well (as I did in my example above). Just last weekend I made a cross country flight stopping at 8 airports just for kicks, and all but one had a frequency of 123.20.

[Hedley]

Ever considered looking outside?

People that rely on their VHF comm radio are an accident waiting to happen. NORDO aircraft do exist, you know, quite legally. And just when you really need the VHF comm (ie high traffic density) is when it doesn't work any more - people will step on each other's transmissions, a stuck mike, etc. Very poor design.

Try flying to a large airport in the USA and see how it's done. Try OSH.

I still instruct a bit, and when inevitably when I ask for a turn, the person won't look first, and I have to remind them that other aircraft are allowed to fly here, too.

LOOK OUTSIDE.

[cone]

(Time is short when you're going 10 miles a minute).

Dude you're going almost super going into an uncontrolled airfield?

Damnit I hate to semi agree with Hedley the tool twice in a row but it's true...look outside. And if you have trouble picking up tallies, try taking off your sunglasses. Seriously, I fly with a helmet and clear visor unless its ridiculously bright, you'll pick people up at least a few miles earlier.

As for the comms if nobody is talking go ahead and broadcast, but don't rely on it. If its busy on the radio don't jam everything up, and absolutely there could be nordo a/c, people not on the right freq, people stepping on each other and not hearing. If you are vfr, or ifr in vmc, you HAVE to be able to avoid other people visually.

[weasello]

To clarify - I was VFR and staring out that window trying to find the traffic I caught the small message from. Turned out he was approaching me a few hundred feet higher and at my 9 o'clock - the point of my story was that he assumed my second radio call was a response to his first, and he assumed I was making it to demonstrate how we wouldn't conflict.

[nimbostratus]

(Time is short when you're going 10 miles a minute).

Dude you're going almost super going into an uncontrolled airfield?

What can I say to that? When you start down from the forties you start down more than 100 nm back from the airport. Even more if you're descending into icing conditions. I'm not going to slow to circuit speeds that far back! The rules only limit you to 250 knots below 10,000 in the vicinity of a MF airport. (Although on an IFR approach we'll slow it back to about 180 within 10 miles and 140 just before the FAF.)

Nimbo.

[Disco Stu]

RFN Wrote:
RFN you are absolutely correct. 122.5 is an excellent option to use to obtain enroute weather updates. Unfortunately most of the (FISE) and (RAAS) frequencies don't seem to be reserved for this purpose nor are they seperated by altitude. In short, if I'm on my way into Sandspit on a typical snarly Queen Charlotte day I could try them for a weather update on their published Terrace rdo (RAAS) of 122.3. Unfortunately while I am doing this I am stepping all over the MF at the airport I am going to (yup also 122.3 Terrace rdo.) So I'm holding up people making calls on an MF (mandatory calls, picking up IFR clearances etc. on the ground or in the air at Sandspit). And believe me this happens at lots of other airports as well.
Anyway, the point is moot, Sandspit does have an AWOS. But by the time we are in range we are at a busy time on the approach and still have to make the mandatory calls on 122.3 and 126.7. (Time is short when you're going 10 miles a minute). Calling early lets us come up with a better arrival plan, check our alternate weather, and complete our landing data.
I am just saying it would be nice to have a few regional, altitude based frequencies for enroute weather acquisition. And maybe publish them somewhere that is easy to find weather you are using CAP, Jeppeson, or NOA charts.

If this exists and I've been smoking crack the past few years, someone please let me know...

Nimbo

Here's your problem - RAAS frequencies aren't for weather updates. That is what the FISE frequencies are for. RAAS is for exactly what the acronym stands for - Remote Aerodrome ADVISORY Service. MF.

You shouldn't be calling the RAAS 100 miles out and 40000' high to get a weather update. Look on your chart and use the appropriate RCO or DRCO. 123.37 and 123.47 are being phase in nationwide. 123.15 is another common one. If you call both Kamloops Radio and Edmonton Radio, oh well.

[Otter envy]

While I may not agree with all of what was said in the original post, I will agree that there is alot of senceless chatter out there. Students and instructors blabing away about there position and intensions in uncontrolled airspace. I like to know how many people are in say a practice area like CYA 126A. I don't however want to know which of the three "runways?" you are planning to do your forced approach on. Its hard on the ears and I most of the time I end up turning my radio WAY down, if not off.

STAY ALERT, WATCH FOR OTHER AIRCRAFT.

[nimbostratus]

Here's your problem - RAAS frequencies aren't for weather updates. That is what the FISE frequencies are for. RAAS is for exactly what the acronym stands for - Remote Aerodrome ADVISORY Service. MF.

You shouldn't be calling the RAAS 100 miles out and 40000' high to get a weather update. Look on your chart and use the appropriate RCO or DRCO. 123.37 and 123.47 are being phase in nationwide. 123.15 is another common one. If you call both Kamloops Radio and Edmonton Radio, oh well.

Hey Disco Stu, believe me, I have FAR more problems than just this. Trust me. The point I was trying to achieve (and I hope this thread isn't feeling too hijacked)... is that Pacific Radio on 126.7 (the local FISE frequency for the West Coast) is generally so congested to be unusable to get weather updates on. As a result, we move to all we have left... the RAAS. I don't like it any more than you. But it is sometimes our only option to get timely weather info.
I haven't yet "got the memo" on the new frequencies 123.37 and 123.47. I'll have a look on my map for them. They sound like just what we need. 126.7 has seen the end of its usefulness as a nationwide common frequency.
Anyway, thanks for your input Stu. How's the weather in Springfield these days? Keep in mind that the nuclear reactor is currently listed as a TFR.

[BeaconInbound]

Asking someone to advise if a conflict exists is like asking someone repeatedly to stop at red lights....very stupid and unnecessary.
EC

I, for one, repeatedly stop at red lights...

[El Comat]

haha.....perhaps I should've worded that differently

EC

[Spokes]

The rules only limit you to 250 knots below 10,000 in the vicinity of a MF airport. (Although on an IFR approach we'll slow it back to about 180 within 10 miles and 140 just before the FAF.)

Nimbo.

I thought the rules said 250 Kts below 10K and 200 Kts below 3K within 10 of a controlled airport. A lttile off topic, but...

602.32 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet ASL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots.

(2) No person shall operate an aircraft below 3,000 feet AGL within 10 nautical miles of a controlled airport at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots unless authorized to do so in an air traffic control clearance.

[nimbostratus]

The rules only limit you to 250 knots below 10,000 in the vicinity of a MF airport. (Although on an IFR approach we'll slow it back to about 180 within 10 miles and 140 just before the FAF.)

Nimbo.

I thought the rules said 250 Kts below 10K and 200 Kts below 3K within 10 of a controlled airport. A lttile off topic, but...

602.32 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet ASL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots.

(2) No person shall operate an aircraft below 3,000 feet AGL within 10 nautical miles of a controlled airport at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots unless authorized to do so in an air traffic control clearance.

A MF airport is not "CONTROLLED". (You need a tower for that).

Nimbo.

[Hedley]

We already had this discussion. Some people think that because the MF airspace is controlled, therefore it is a "controlled airport".

[nimbostratus]

Interesting point Hedley. The CARS do say that the speed limit is in effect with 10 nms of a "controlled AIRPORT". A MF is an advisory frequency airport (not controlled), but it does fall within class D airspace (controlled). We may have to sick the lawyers out there on this one.

Nimbo

[cone]

What can I say to that? When you start down from the forties you start down more than 100 nm back from the airport. Even more if you're descending into icing conditions. I'm not going to slow to circuit speeds that far back! The rules only limit you to 250 knots below 10,000 in the vicinity of a MF airport. (Although on an IFR approach we'll slow it back to about 180 within 10 miles and 140 just before the FAF.)

Just buggin you dude. There's also a caveat in the speed restrictions that allow for aircraft operating restrictions (ie if its nots going to be safe to go slow don't), so you'll see a lot of fast jets exceeding the standard speeds (although we try when we can).