New Hire Sims?

[rudder]

As a US Airline pilot, I find this thread dreadful

Like do you guys really debate if technically your junior pilots are in poverty?!

That is why the state of the profession is the way it is in Canada.

We are our own worst enemy.

[Ash Ketchum]

As a US Airline pilot, I find this thread dreadful

Like do you guys really debate if technically your junior pilots are in poverty?!

Well to answer your question, I am currently doing manual labor on my days off to pay for my mortgage and buy groceries for my family as a flat pay FO.

[thepoors]

Excuse me...

Are Air Canada pilots debating if the starting wage is poverty or not?

Lol!!!

Hard to believe isn't it...it's because of fkn retards like digits and altiplano that our industry is in the state it's in. Making sad excuses and using stupid technicalities while completely missing the bigger picture.

58k/yr is barely livable in any of AC's bases. Whether you're single or trying to support a family. Btw because someone asked, the monthly pay after taxes is about $3400. If that's not a poverty wage, I don't know what is. (Not even considering the burden and responsibilities that this job entails). These company simps can pound sand, we're the laughing stock of the world.

[sstaurus]

I don't think anyone is seriously saying it's not a shitty wage... but the histrionics of "oh I can only eat kraft dinner and hotdogs"! ....is perhaps a bit rich for someone experiencing actual poverty. Which is probably moot because they aren't reading an avcan forum anyway. But if we're trying to get public support..... reading the room helps.

[Hangry]

Exaggerations like this don't help your case though. It's bad, but it's not poverty.

Sorry?? Where do you live that 58k/yr isn't poverty? Especially with a mortgage, or a car payment, or kids, or rent even?

The only ones on this salary not living in poverty are still shacked up with mommy and daddy.

$58K is a shitty salary and completely inappropriate for a professional airline pilot, but it's far from poverty.

You really don't know poverty or how to balance your spending if you can't make it on that.

Car payments? iPhones? Vacations? Stuff? They are all luxuries. Not affording them is not poverty.

OOF. Some real boomer energy with this post Anti.

[Hysteria]

While I may have a small disagreement with Alti on a trivial matter, I’m certainly not going to resort to ad hominem. His posts in the past been helpful at least for me, on this site, well before I had an account.

[Say Altitude]

As I understand it - If you are short any one of these three items, you get a sim eval:
500 PIC
500 multi
500 turbine/jet

And as for failure rate, of the last 1700 or so hired only 7 have been let go for training issues. This doesn’t include those let go for doing stupid s**t

[itsgrosswhatinet]

And as for failure rate, of the last 1700 or so hired only 7 have been let go for training issues.

Not sure I feel good about that figure considering how low hiring minimums have become and the fact that some are hired to meet various quota.

[altiplano]

Excuse me...

Are Air Canada pilots debating if the starting wage is poverty or not?

Lol!!!

Hard to believe isn't it...it's because of fkn retards like digits and altiplano that our industry is in the state it's in. Making sad excuses and using stupid technicalities while completely missing the bigger picture.

58k/yr is barely livable in any of AC's bases. Whether you're single or trying to support a family. Btw because someone asked, the monthly pay after taxes is about $3400. If that's not a poverty wage, I don't know what is. (Not even considering the burden and responsibilities that this job entails). These company simps can pound sand, we're the laughing stock of the world.

I'm not missing the big picture. Yeah. 58K is bullshit. Shit is expensive. We are taxed to death. But being broke and having to stretch and sacrifice isn't poverty. We are lucky that most of us won't ever feel real poverty. That's all I'm pointing out.

$58K is bullshit, but it isn't poverty. $59K is the average annual income in this country, that doesn't represent poverty.

And how do you come to blame me for it all? I climbed over the same mountain. I vote No. I act with integrity. I do my part... in fact I'm willing to bet I do more than my part...

Real poverty is a fricking shame in this country and it's getting worse and it isn't you. Don't be such a fucking victim.

[altiplano]

Sorry?? Where do you live that 58k/yr isn't poverty? Especially with a mortgage, or a car payment, or kids, or rent even?

The only ones on this salary not living in poverty are still shacked up with mommy and daddy.

$58K is a shitty salary and completely inappropriate for a professional airline pilot, but it's far from poverty.

You really don't know poverty or how to balance your spending if you can't make it on that.

Car payments? iPhones? Vacations? Stuff? They are all luxuries. Not affording them is not poverty.

OOF. Some real boomer energy with this post Anti.

Boomer?!

Way off. My parents are Boomers.

And I stand by it... not affording shit is not poverty. Simplify your life...

[vanislepilot]

$58K is a shitty salary and completely inappropriate for a professional airline pilot, but it's far from poverty.

You really don't know poverty or how to balance your spending if you can't make it on that.

Car payments? iPhones? Vacations? Stuff? They are all luxuries. Not affording them is not poverty.

OOF. Some real boomer energy with this post Anti.

Boomer?!

Way off. My parents are Boomers.

And I stand by it... not affording shit is not poverty. Simplify your life...

$58K is a shitty salary and completely inappropriate for a professional airline pilot, but it's far from poverty.

You really don't know poverty or how to balance your spending if you can't make it on that.

Car payments? iPhones? Vacations? Stuff? They are all luxuries. Not affording them is not poverty.

OOF. Some real boomer energy with this post Anti.

Boomer?!

Way off. My parents are Boomers.

And I stand by it... not affording shit is not poverty. Simplify your life...

I think there are some extremes here being pointed here…

I will say I have heard of some AC pilots going to food banks.
That’s absolutely disgusting

It’s also pretty crappy that after many years of f**king around, training, working for this operator in that northern s**thole, moving around, finally getting to “the place to be” that an iPhone is too much of a luxury. I’m sorry bros you DESERVE a goddamn iPhone

Btw before you say I don’t get the point that you trying to make (I do, respectfully it’s was poorly executed on your part) It’s saying crap like that got us s**t wages in this country in the first place.

They could cut everyone in this country’s pay down by half and double the cost of everything and instead of lighting it on fire, there will be people that criticize your budgeting and tell you reasons why it’s your fault you aren’t making ends meet. Sounds crazy right? Guess what. That basically happened these past 10 years.

[altiplano]

Poorly executed?

I guess...

I led with:

$58K is a shitty salary and completely inappropriate for a professional airline pilot


It's piss poor wage. Completely bullshit rate and for 4 years of it is ludicrous. I do believe that right seat 320 is a $225K++/year job.

Claiming $60K-90K through flat salary years as poverty doesn't do the cause any help because it's demonstrably false.

I think we're best served to just be accurate: It's a completely inadequate rate for an experienced professional pilot and lags all comparators by a significant margin. Period.

Anyone listening can understand that. They will also understand that there is real poverty in this country and it's not that.

[granola]

Stats Canada defines poverty via Low Income Cut-Off values, the latest amount available being for 2022. For a family of four living in a city of 500,000 or more it was $54,594, up significantly from $51,128 in 2021. What will the value be for 2024 when it is eventually published? How will it compare to the ~58K that an Air Canada pilot currently earns in their first year?

Don't be in such a rush to be offended by someone comparing Air Canada wages to poverty.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 2C20220101

[Ash Ketchum]

Just as a comparison, I was earning more as a new hire engineer with no experience in 2014 than I am 10 years later as a year 2 FO at AC. This is after 7 years and 4000 hours of flying experience to get into AC. Completely disgusting and unacceptable. Year 2 FOs should be making 150K+.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Stats Canada defines poverty via Low Income Cut-Off values, the latest amount available being for 2022. For a family of four living in a city of 500,000 or more it was $54,594, up significantly from $51,128 in 2021. What will the value be for 2024 when it is eventually published? How will it compare to the ~58K that an Air Canada pilot currently earns in their first year?

Don't be in such a rush to be offended by someone comparing Air Canada wages to poverty.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 2C20220101

So you’re comparing a family of four’s wages to a single air Canada pilot’s wage?

[modi13]

Just as a comparison, I was earning more as a new hire engineer with no experience in 2014 than I am 10 years later as a year 2 FO at AC. This is after 7 years and 4000 hours of flying experience to get into AC. Completely disgusting and unacceptable. Year 2 FOs should be making 150K+.

Then why did you take the job?

[granola]

I work with new hire pilots at AC. The idea that they are all 25 year old single pilots living rent free in their parent's basement is quite dated. I would guess that the average age is still in their 30's, and yes, many of them do have young (or old) kids that they are trying to support while sitting reserve for 18 days per month.

[Tbayer2021]

Stats Canada defines poverty via Low Income Cut-Off values, the latest amount available being for 2022. For a family of four living in a city of 500,000 or more it was $54,594, up significantly from $51,128 in 2021. What will the value be for 2024 when it is eventually published? How will it compare to the ~58K that an Air Canada pilot currently earns in their first year?

Don't be in such a rush to be offended by someone comparing Air Canada wages to poverty.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 2C20220101

So you’re comparing a family of four’s wages to a single air Canada pilot’s wage?

You're point being that every junior AC pilots is a single person in their 20s with no substantial financial responsibility?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Stats Canada defines poverty via Low Income Cut-Off values, the latest amount available being for 2022. For a family of four living in a city of 500,000 or more it was $54,594, up significantly from $51,128 in 2021. What will the value be for 2024 when it is eventually published? How will it compare to the ~58K that an Air Canada pilot currently earns in their first year?

Don't be in such a rush to be offended by someone comparing Air Canada wages to poverty.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 2C20220101

So you’re comparing a family of four’s wages to a single air Canada pilot’s wage?

You're point being that every junior AC pilots is a single person in their 20s with no substantial financial responsibility?

What? Where did I say anything about age or responsibility. The comment was in regards to actual poverty wages for a family of 4 versus a single individual salary.

By “single”, I meant ONE person’s salary.

I love how you can draw your own conclusions though with little to no information regarding the actual context. You’ll be a great captain in no time there bud.

[Landingstrip]

thread drift alert. Any update on new hire sims?

[Tbayer2021]

So you’re comparing a family of four’s wages to a single air Canada pilot’s wage?

You're point being that every junior AC pilots is a single person in their 20s with no substantial financial responsibility?

What? Where did I say anything about age or responsibility. The comment was in regards to actual poverty wages for a family of 4 versus a single individual salary.

By “single”, I meant ONE person’s salary.

I love how you can draw your own conclusions though with little to no information regarding the actual context. You’ll be a great captain in no time there bud.

Your point being that an individual making 58K a year is in a much different financial position than a family of 4 making the same 58k, correct?

[rudder]

You're point being that every junior AC pilots is a single person in their 20s with no substantial financial responsibility?

What? Where did I say anything about age or responsibility. The comment was in regards to actual poverty wages for a family of 4 versus a single individual salary.

By “single”, I meant ONE person’s salary.

I love how you can draw your own conclusions though with little to no information regarding the actual context. You’ll be a great captain in no time there bud.

Your point being that an individual making 58K a year is in a much different financial position than a family of 4 making the same 58k, correct?

For as long as pilots support the notion of ‘apprentice’ wages masquerading as probation wages, progress will be underwhelming.

Starting pay for Part 705 pilots needs to increase ALOT! Starting pay for Part 705 pilots flying large airplanes needs to move in to the 21st century.

Canada is the laughing stock on the planet for airline pilot wages. On a currency adjusted basis, we look even worse.

[Me262]

What? Where did I say anything about age or responsibility. The comment was in regards to actual poverty wages for a family of 4 versus a single individual salary.

By “single”, I meant ONE person’s salary.

I love how you can draw your own conclusions though with little to no information regarding the actual context. You’ll be a great captain in no time there bud.

Your point being that an individual making 58K a year is in a much different financial position than a family of 4 making the same 58k, correct?

For as long as pilots support the notion of ‘apprentice’ wages masquerading as probation wages, progress will be underwhelming.

Starting pay for Part 705 pilots needs to increase ALOT! Starting pay for Part 705 pilots flying large airplanes needs to move in to the 21st century.

Canada is the laughing stock on the planet for airline pilot wages. On a currency adjusted basis, we look even worse.

Oh look, someones dick swinging. Cause pilots flying smaller planes are not real pilots am i rite?

[short bus]

Calm down. That wasn't his point at all

[330heavy]

Your point being that an individual making 58K a year is in a much different financial position than a family of 4 making the same 58k, correct?

For as long as pilots support the notion of ‘apprentice’ wages masquerading as probation wages, progress will be underwhelming.

Starting pay for Part 705 pilots needs to increase ALOT! Starting pay for Part 705 pilots flying large airplanes needs to move in to the 21st century.

Canada is the laughing stock on the planet for airline pilot wages. On a currency adjusted basis, we look even worse.

Oh look, someones dick swinging. Cause pilots flying smaller planes are not real pilots am i rite?

Rudder is one of the few most professional and respected posters here. You clearly missed the point