Me262 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:32 pm

CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:14 pm Better yet, You wanna go fly in the states? Check out EB-5. Invest half a million USD into their programs and you can bring everyone and their family into the USA. I hear delta has better hotels.

1.8 million, not half.

Cool. You’ll make that back in 5 years.

Netjets....

Flying a Citation in the right seat, you're making a base salary of $153k USD.

Let that sink in.

CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:40 pm

Me262 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:32 pm

CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:14 pm Better yet, You wanna go fly in the states? Check out EB-5. Invest half a million USD into their programs and you can bring everyone and their family into the USA. I hear delta has better hotels.

1.8 million, not half.

Cool. You’ll make that back in 5 years.

Checking under the mattress right meow.

Doesn't Wareen Buffet own them? Guess he didn't go bankrupt paying his pilots properly.

Me262 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:57 pm

CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:40 pm

Me262 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:32 pm

1.8 million, not half.

Cool. You’ll make that back in 5 years.

Checking under the mattress right meow.

Smart idea I keep checking my lotto MAX tickets but alas, the most i get is a free ticket.

Back to the original question, the pay comparison tables in the Safe Flights web site are completely out of date.

https://safeflights.ca/index.php?page=w ... son-canada

Lynx, and Swoop don't exist, Sunwing effectively doesn't exist, the pay scales for Flair, Porter, and Canadian north have all changed. Nolinor, and Jetlines should be added to the list as well if possible.

Or I should say, this site is a great resource for our collective bargaining efforts, it would be nice if the owners of this important data could update it please.

TurkeyFarmYQX wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:41 pm Sure, just go to safeflights.ca

A newer one is posted there.

Updated as of June 10, 2023, so a year out of date. It's been a big year for airline pilot wages in Canada and the biggest player hasn't even checked in yet.

bobcaygeon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:13 am

Inverted2 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 6:04 am Should keep the Swoop table on as a reminder for future reference that someone whored their selves out for less than 100k/yr to fly a 737.

Agreed, It's perfect for the next low cost carrier to reference so they know just how little pilots will actually work for and to remind the current ones how far they have come. Pilots at all airlines love to quickly forget what the wage scales/work rules were under their old CBA often within 12 months. I know of a few WJ'rs that already think they are getting screwed and are underpaid.

Lol that's because the WJ MEC pussied out of a strike at the 11th hour and took a dog shit deal. 12 months on and they are already underpaid. Way behind Porter and will be miles behind AC by the end of the year.

That's what a LOU is for. Jazz, Wasaya, Inuit, Flair just off the top of my head, 4 ALPA properties have updated their pay outside of regular scheduled negotiations recently. I'm sure there's more if I thought about it longer.

If AC, Flair and Porter embarrass WJ pay enough that it's causing WJ problems, it'll change. Yes there's all the rhetoric during negotiations, but the airline isn't going to shrink and loose money if they are loosing too many pilots. WJ will do what Flair and Jazz just did if they have to.

co-joe wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:35 am Back to the original question, the pay comparison tables in the Safe Flights web site are completely out of date.

https://safeflights.ca/index.php?page=w ... son-canada

Lynx, and Swoop don't exist, Sunwing effectively doesn't exist, the pay scales for Flair, Porter, and Canadian north have all changed. Nolinor, and Jetlines should be added to the list as well if possible.

Or I should say, this site is a great resource for our collective bargaining efforts, it would be nice if the owners of this important data could update it please.

I updated these tables on page 1 of this thread. Here's an updated one with the new flair numbers. I've removed the conditional formatting on the first and last step pay scales per CaptDukeNukem's suggestion on another thread. There's a lot more than pay to consider, so once I have some more time on my hands, I'd like to make an updated table with things like GDO's, vacation, pension/rrsp contributions, etc.

yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:30 am

co-joe wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:35 am Back to the original question, the pay comparison tables in the Safe Flights web site are completely out of date.

https://safeflights.ca/index.php?page=w ... son-canada

Lynx, and Swoop don't exist, Sunwing effectively doesn't exist, the pay scales for Flair, Porter, and Canadian north have all changed. Nolinor, and Jetlines should be added to the list as well if possible.

Or I should say, this site is a great resource for our collective bargaining efforts, it would be nice if the owners of this important data could update it please.

I updated these tables on page 1 of this thread. Here's an updated one with the new flair numbers. I've removed the conditional formatting on the first and last step pay scales per CaptDukeNukem's suggestion on another thread. There's a lot more than pay to consider, so once I have some more time on my hands, I'd like to make an updated table with things like GDO's, vacation, pension/rrsp contributions, etc.

CDNpilotpayNB.JPG

Thanks man. This is great work you’re doing. Seeing it all on one is clutch.

Thanks for the update. I'm not so concerned with the total compensation numbers, although I realise that changes the picture significantly. WS pilots have been cash poor, T4 rich for a long time, having a high pension match, profit share, etc is great, but I know several people who are paycheque to paycheque and can't afford to opt in to the pension there and at my airline. Life is expensive if you make great choices, make a mistake or two and chose to live in yvr or yyz and your options dwindle pretty rapidly.

It's just great to see a side by side comparison of hourly pay, and even better to see those numbers climbing across the board.

Didn't Canadian North raise wages recently?

As for Nolinor I read that their first year Captain pay is 175 K and it goes up to 250 k over 12 years.

co-joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:40 am WS pilots have been cash poor, T4 rich for a long time, having a high pension match, profit share, etc is great, but I know several people who are paycheque to paycheque and can't afford to opt in to the pension there and at my airline.

Your information is out of date and factually incorrect co-joe regarding WJA post CA2. I am not living check to check and any extra work I choose to pick up is paid at 1.5x my hourly rate on GDO's, vacation blocks, or work over my mmg (straight time pick ups are 1.0x).

yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:30 am
I updated these tables on page 1 of this thread. Here's an updated one with the new flair numbers. I've removed the conditional formatting on the first and last step pay scales per CaptDukeNukem's suggestion on another thread. There's a lot more than pay to consider, so once I have some more time on my hands, I'd like to make an updated table with things like GDO's, vacation, pension/rrsp contributions, etc.

CDNpilotpayNB.JPG

FYI this is the current Transat scale. It's the final year before negotiations.

P.S., AC is rostered at 75 hrs?

Current cargojet payscale as of July this year.

Insane! $100,000usd left seat of a 767???

JHR wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:54 am Insane! $100,000usd left seat of a 767???

to work on the wrong side of your circadian rhythm

We should actually be getting paid more than the US.

1. our currency is worth roughly 30% less.
2. our tax rate is much higher here. I literally take home half of what I earn. It’s criminal.

Inverted2 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:15 am We should actually be getting paid more than the US.

1. our currency is worth roughly 30% less.
2. our tax rate is much higher here. I literally take home half of what I earn. It’s criminal.

Actually, it is closer to 40%. Having said that, the true test is cost of living (how effective is take home pay at covering living costs).

US take home pay is actually significantly impacted by address (high tax states like CA or NY but there are also 8 states with no state income tax). Social Security contributions are much higher than CPP/QPP.

If you work for any of the top 8 US carriers, the employer is contributing 16-18% to your 401k. Pilots contribute nil.

Canada is a distant poor cousin as it applies to aviation. Pay. Retirement benefits. Work rules. QOL.

AC in particular enjoys a massive pilot unit cost advantage (currency adjusted) vs almost all of its international competitors. Every other carrier in Canada seems comfortable using only domestic competitors for benchmarking purposes.

goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 10:08 am Looks like Porter Q400 captains are due for another benchmark. How is that non-union flexibility working out?

won't be non-unionized for long.

Quick update for Canadian North and Cargojet. If you see numbers that are incorrect, please don't hesitate to message me. This is only helpful if it's accurate.

Narrobody Pay
Widebody Pay

Thank you. I always forget just how garbage Cargojet is to work for. $138 an hour to captain a widebody. On the 767 at UPS that’s $450 an hour. Truly pathetic.

I was stunned at first, when I saw Cargojet at ~220ish an hour thinking that snippet was year 1, then scrolled down and hit the floor laughing realizing that that was the top end pay.

Truly a miserable joke. AJ certainly has done well convincing outer ring GTA cargo pilots to fly for those wages. No wonder AC and ACPA jumped in to capture the flying - how could they not?!

I guess that's why he's imported most of the labour there - artificially suppress the wages but generating demand for those positions.

yowflyer23, thanks for all your efforts.
I know the regional pilot chart is in another thread somewhere. Are you able to post it on this thread too? Keep everything in one place?

Edited