Jazz merging with Air Canada?

[Inverted2]

Dates and written contracts don't really matter to Air Canada. They'll do what they want and when they want. Haven't you guys noticed by now?

[cdnavater]

Dates and written contracts don't really matter to Air Canada. They'll do what they want and when they want. Haven't you guys noticed by now?

No doubt, it would take a massive spanking to change their ways!

[hithere]

The exclusivity clause that Jazz had with AC on CPA operations ends on Dec 31 2025, not Dec of 2024. So if AC started up CMA on Jan 1st 2024 that would also be a violation of the Jazz/AC exclusivity agreement. I’m not saying it won’t happen, just stating facts

Edited,
That is correct, the exclusivity doesn’t end until Dec 31, 2025, I had incorrectly thought it was tied to the CPA renewal, so that begs the question, what the hell man!
So, of course this is rumour about CMA right now but I’ve learned over the years, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
If in fact they are negotiating an agreement to operate Qs in violation of this exclusive agreement that they have already violated with PAL and is being grieved, I can’t imagine this would go over well with an arbitrator.
More fuel to the Jazz integration at AC discussion, if AC owns Jazz they can right size the fleet so to speak but it would not negate the exclusivity agreement without integration. Integration is the only scenario that would negate the reason for having exclusivity, interesting times!
[/quot


Yes I meant: "So if AC started up CMA on Jan 1st 2025 that would also be a violation of the Jazz/AC exclusivity agreement."

[truedude]

AC is looking to bring CMA into the mix like they did PAL

They can, I believe the exclusivity that was violated with PAL expires Jan 1, so I would not at all be surprised to see a deal with CMA, that’s what AC does.
It’s business 101, they are negotiating with Jazz past 2025 of which we are only guaranteed 80 fins, of course Jazz wants more than that to spread out some costs and AC wants it as cheap as possible, so another operation with a deal adds to the pressure.
Jazz will be smaller very soon and they will have 15 extra Q400s available for lease, I’m sure that will be divided by PAL and CMA when the dust settles, 10 to CMA and another 5 to PAL is my guess.

Jazz has averaged 930-990 line pilots available since the post-COVID exodus. @12 pilots per fin, that staffs 80 fully utilized aircraft.

I don’t think there is a plan or the ability for Jazz to staff more than 80 fully utilized fins. Dec 31 2025 just came 2 years early, hence PAL and now perhaps CMA. AC appears to be revering to the ‘portfolio’ strategy for Express (again).

The only issue with that is, CMA can't staff their own planes without using retired jazz pilots. Why would a pilot go to CMA instead of Jazz to live in the same cities but likely make less money. That is the one and only thing PAL has going for it, is it offers a base put east where the cost of living is less. But even they are having issues.

[Canucklhead]

They can, I believe the exclusivity that was violated with PAL expires Jan 1, so I would not at all be surprised to see a deal with CMA, that’s what AC does.
It’s business 101, they are negotiating with Jazz past 2025 of which we are only guaranteed 80 fins, of course Jazz wants more than that to spread out some costs and AC wants it as cheap as possible, so another operation with a deal adds to the pressure.
Jazz will be smaller very soon and they will have 15 extra Q400s available for lease, I’m sure that will be divided by PAL and CMA when the dust settles, 10 to CMA and another 5 to PAL is my guess.

Jazz has averaged 930-990 line pilots available since the post-COVID exodus. @12 pilots per fin, that staffs 80 fully utilized aircraft.

I don’t think there is a plan or the ability for Jazz to staff more than 80 fully utilized fins. Dec 31 2025 just came 2 years early, hence PAL and now perhaps CMA. AC appears to be revering to the ‘portfolio’ strategy for Express (again).

The only issue with that is, CMA can't staff their own planes without using retired jazz pilots. Why would a pilot go to CMA instead of Jazz to live in the same cities but likely make less money. That is the one and only thing PAL has going for it, is it offers a base put east where the cost of living is less. But even they are having issues.

Not to mention that CMA apparently has a new UPS contract that they can't find crews for.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I thought you guys negotiated "exclusive" AC express. First PAL, now maybe CMA? wow.

Read what I wrote!
The exclusive Express ends at the end of this year, PAL is being grieved, to what end who knows but as long as CMA is not operational before DEC 31, no violation.
We did it to rid ourselves of the scourge that was dragging us down, Sky Regional and GGN, as a result our wages went up, so I’d say it was a general success.
I’m not surprised that AC is going back to their usual methods, we still have a no strike clause until the end of our CBA, so the only purpose this serves is negotiating against Jazz for the renewal of the CPA.
As rudder said, we can only reliably staff 80 aircraft anyway but I fail to see how these other companies can staff a meaningful operation cheaper and still provide a reliable service.
However, this adds fuel to the rumour fire, if AC we’re to buy Jazz and merge it in, they would likely outsource the Q400 operations, Jazz has status pay but obviously that would disappear and they could staff the Qs much cheaper if they were off the OC and on another.
January is going to be interesting to see what happens

Grievance? Eh? lol. How’s that working out for the hundreds of pilots that got effed out of a seniority spot at AC based on a contract that YOU signed. You sold every regional pilot down river by accepting a SEVENTEEN year contract. AC gonna start up a half a dozen CPAs and probably will shrink jazz to below 80 tails. If you think they won’t, then you’re delusional. They have broken every single promise they’ve made you. Congrats on your raise. Enjoy the midnight flight to Fredericton.

[cdnavater]

I thought you guys negotiated "exclusive" AC express. First PAL, now maybe CMA? wow.

Read what I wrote!
The exclusive Express ends at the end of this year, PAL is being grieved, to what end who knows but as long as CMA is not operational before DEC 31, no violation.
We did it to rid ourselves of the scourge that was dragging us down, Sky Regional and GGN, as a result our wages went up, so I’d say it was a general success.
I’m not surprised that AC is going back to their usual methods, we still have a no strike clause until the end of our CBA, so the only purpose this serves is negotiating against Jazz for the renewal of the CPA.
As rudder said, we can only reliably staff 80 aircraft anyway but I fail to see how these other companies can staff a meaningful operation cheaper and still provide a reliable service.
However, this adds fuel to the rumour fire, if AC we’re to buy Jazz and merge it in, they would likely outsource the Q400 operations, Jazz has status pay but obviously that would disappear and they could staff the Qs much cheaper if they were off the OC and on another.
January is going to be interesting to see what happens

Grievance? Eh? lol. How’s that working out for the hundreds of pilots that got effed out of a seniority spot at AC based on a contract that YOU signed. You sold every regional pilot down river by accepting a SEVENTEEN year contract. AC gonna start up a half a dozen CPAs and probably will shrink jazz to below 80 tails. If you think they won’t, then you’re delusional. They have broken every single promise they’ve made you. Congrats on your raise. Enjoy the midnight flight to Fredericton.

I really enjoy our chats, I also love how you throw shade while the very 17 year contract you slag is a DIRECT result of Sky Regional undercutting us, you worked at SR, so really you should be shouldering some blame, however in true scab fashion, I’m sure you’ll justify your shitty existence.
That same 17 year contract is what managed us to rid ourselves of the scourge that was SR, so for that I say job well done! Gone but never forgotten what kind of pilots spawned from that scab airline, you of course being but one of them.
I honestly question Porters hiring committee that you managed to fool, I’m sure some day they’ll come to regret that!

[braaap Braap]

I honestly question Porters hiring committee that you managed to fool, I’m sure some day they’ll come to regret that!

Oh boy, Duke is an A+ hire compared to some of the characters they hired last year.

[cdnavater]

I honestly question Porters hiring committee that you managed to fool, I’m sure some day they’ll come to regret that!

Oh boy, Duke is an A+ hire compared to some of the characters they hired last year.

Well good then, doesn’t change the fact that he constantly bitches about the Jazz contract but had a hand in, perhaps the biggest hand in affecting our working conditions.
Jazz was a go to place and the highest paid regional pilots on planet earth until Sky Regional came along and agreed to do our work for significantly less, so pardon me when I call his shit out about the Jazz contract

[cdnavater]

I was just reading the latest financial report and I read something interesting, I and it seems most thought our fleet guarantee goes to 80 this Dec 31st and unless it’s a mistake which I doubt, the covered guarantee is 105 to Dec 31,2025.
This changes the timeline on what I thought was a time constraint, after the Falko/RAL sale, they have another year to renegotiate the CPA, so the sale of Jazz may be slightly delayed from my earlier prediction, to be clear, I still see it as a possibility.

[Man_in_the_sky]

I honestly question Porters hiring committee that you managed to fool, I’m sure some day they’ll come to regret that!

Oh boy, Duke is an A+ hire compared to some of the characters they hired last year.

Well good then, doesn’t change the fact that he constantly bitches about the Jazz contract but had a hand in, perhaps the biggest hand in affecting our working conditions.
Jazz was a go to place and the highest paid regional pilots on planet earth until Sky Regional came along and agreed to do our work for significantly less, so pardon me when I call his shit out about the Jazz contract

Don't blame another company for a contract that was voted by your group.. With a B scale!

Make all those appendix hard to understand, i usually took the worst appendix for my pay, as last generation usually @#$! us over to get a better part of the pie

[cdnavater]

Oh boy, Duke is an A+ hire compared to some of the characters they hired last year.

Well good then, doesn’t change the fact that he constantly bitches about the Jazz contract but had a hand in, perhaps the biggest hand in affecting our working conditions.
Jazz was a go to place and the highest paid regional pilots on planet earth until Sky Regional came along and agreed to do our work for significantly less, so pardon me when I call his shit out about the Jazz contract

Don't blame another company for a contract that was voted by your group.. With a B scale!

Make all those appendix hard to understand, i usually took the worst appendix for my pay, as last generation usually @#$! us over to get a better part of the pie

Ok, so when Jazz was the highest paid regional pilots anywhere but more importantly in North America, Air Canada created Sky Regional as a direct result of our 98% vote to strike resulting in moderate gains, not rumoured, CR literally said it, who would you blame?
Sky Regional pilots were well aware of the work they were taking for much, much less pay, yet they fucking did it anyway, much like the Swoop garbage that undercut WJ pilots.
The B scale you like to bleet on about was dollar for fucking dollar to Scab Regional because guess what, if we didn’t compete for the work, we were going to shrink away to nothing, CR said that too! So, we competed for the work that was originally ours to begin with, smart play by the AC C suite, drove our wages down to well behind inflation, starting salary at Jazz would be around 86-88k this year if it weren’t for those scabs.
So, the plan was to compete and bring all the regional work back in house so we can stop competing and bring the wages back, no more B scale, 30-50% raises last September and likely more after AC is through with their negotiations and we get to the CIRB facilitated meetings about the contract violations!
Yes, we voted in a matching contract for new hires who also benefit from a mature CBA with much better protections and benefits and as a result we were able to rid ourselves of the scourge that was SR and GGN dragging all of us down, so, I won’t apologize for it, did what we had to do the keep our company and good jobs going, so @#$! off

[Man_in_the_sky]

Well good then, doesn’t change the fact that he constantly bitches about the Jazz contract but had a hand in, perhaps the biggest hand in affecting our working conditions.
Jazz was a go to place and the highest paid regional pilots on planet earth until Sky Regional came along and agreed to do our work for significantly less, so pardon me when I call his shit out about the Jazz contract

Don't blame another company for a contract that was voted by your group.. With a B scale!

Make all those appendix hard to understand, i usually took the worst appendix for my pay, as last generation usually @#$! us over to get a better part of the pie

Ok, so when Jazz was the highest paid regional pilots anywhere but more importantly in North America, Air Canada created Sky Regional as a direct result of our 98% vote to strike resulting in moderate gains, not rumoured, CR literally said it, who would you blame?
Sky Regional pilots were well aware of the work they were taking for much, much less pay, yet they fucking did it anyway, much like the Swoop garbage that undercut WJ pilots.
The B scale you like to bleet on about was dollar for fucking dollar to Scab Regional because guess what, if we didn’t compete for the work, we were going to shrink away to nothing, CR said that too! So, we competed for the work that was originally ours to begin with, smart play by the AC C suite, drove our wages down to well behind inflation, starting salary at Jazz would be around 86-88k this year if it weren’t for those scabs.
So, the plan was to compete and bring all the regional work back in house so we can stop competing and bring the wages back, no more B scale, 30-50% raises last September and likely more after AC is through with their negotiations and we get to the CIRB facilitated meetings about the contract violations!
Yes, we voted in a matching contract for new hires who also benefit from a mature CBA with much better protections and benefits and as a result we were able to rid ourselves of the scourge that was SR and GGN dragging all of us down, so, I won’t apologize for it, did what we had to do the keep our company and good jobs going, so @#$! off

the B scale you like to defend, did everyone went on this as an act of solidarity, or you gave it to the next guy ?

Don't answer, we both know who suffered this very noble act to be competitive.

[Nick678]

Well good then, doesn’t change the fact that he constantly bitches about the Jazz contract but had a hand in, perhaps the biggest hand in affecting our working conditions.
Jazz was a go to place and the highest paid regional pilots on planet earth until Sky Regional came along and agreed to do our work for significantly less, so pardon me when I call his shit out about the Jazz contract

Don't blame another company for a contract that was voted by your group.. With a B scale!

Make all those appendix hard to understand, i usually took the worst appendix for my pay, as last generation usually @#$! us over to get a better part of the pie

Ok, so when Jazz was the highest paid regional pilots anywhere but more importantly in North America, Air Canada created Sky Regional as a direct result of our 98% vote to strike resulting in moderate gains, not rumoured, CR literally said it, who would you blame?
Sky Regional pilots were well aware of the work they were taking for much, much less pay, yet they fucking did it anyway, much like the Swoop garbage that undercut WJ pilots.
The B scale you like to bleet on about was dollar for fucking dollar to Scab Regional because guess what, if we didn’t compete for the work, we were going to shrink away to nothing, CR said that too! So, we competed for the work that was originally ours to begin with, smart play by the AC C suite, drove our wages down to well behind inflation, starting salary at Jazz would be around 86-88k this year if it weren’t for those scabs.
So, the plan was to compete and bring all the regional work back in house so we can stop competing and bring the wages back, no more B scale, 30-50% raises last September and likely more after AC is through with their negotiations and we get to the CIRB facilitated meetings about the contract violations!
Yes, we voted in a matching contract for new hires who also benefit from a mature CBA with much better protections and benefits and as a result we were able to rid ourselves of the scourge that was SR and GGN dragging all of us down, so, I won’t apologize for it, did what we had to do the keep our company and good jobs going, so @#$! off

You physically took a pay cut? you gave up 1-1 YOS for upgrade? you gave up your DB pension? Did you get affected when SR and GGN came in with DOH? Did you get $12,000 in the last MOS and lost nothing?

I really wouldn't come here and say "I did what I to had to survive". You screwed the guy behind you. You'd didn't sacrifice shit.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Don't blame another company for a contract that was voted by your group.. With a B scale!

Make all those appendix hard to understand, i usually took the worst appendix for my pay, as last generation usually @#$! us over to get a better part of the pie

Ok, so when Jazz was the highest paid regional pilots anywhere but more importantly in North America, Air Canada created Sky Regional as a direct result of our 98% vote to strike resulting in moderate gains, not rumoured, CR literally said it, who would you blame?
Sky Regional pilots were well aware of the work they were taking for much, much less pay, yet they fucking did it anyway, much like the Swoop garbage that undercut WJ pilots.
The B scale you like to bleet on about was dollar for fucking dollar to Scab Regional because guess what, if we didn’t compete for the work, we were going to shrink away to nothing, CR said that too! So, we competed for the work that was originally ours to begin with, smart play by the AC C suite, drove our wages down to well behind inflation, starting salary at Jazz would be around 86-88k this year if it weren’t for those scabs.
So, the plan was to compete and bring all the regional work back in house so we can stop competing and bring the wages back, no more B scale, 30-50% raises last September and likely more after AC is through with their negotiations and we get to the CIRB facilitated meetings about the contract violations!
Yes, we voted in a matching contract for new hires who also benefit from a mature CBA with much better protections and benefits and as a result we were able to rid ourselves of the scourge that was SR and GGN dragging all of us down, so, I won’t apologize for it, did what we had to do the keep our company and good jobs going, so @#$! off

You physically took a pay cut? you gave up 1-1 YOS for upgrade? you gave up your DB pension? Did you get affected when SR and GGN came in with DOH? Did you get $12,000 in the last MOS and lost nothing?

I really wouldn't come here and say "I did what I to had to survive". You screwed the guy behind you. You'd didn't sacrifice shit.

THIS

you can tap youself in the back as much as you want for ''saving Jazz''

reality is, you screwed 17 years of new hires !

[cdnavater]

Ok, so when Jazz was the highest paid regional pilots anywhere but more importantly in North America, Air Canada created Sky Regional as a direct result of our 98% vote to strike resulting in moderate gains, not rumoured, CR literally said it, who would you blame?
Sky Regional pilots were well aware of the work they were taking for much, much less pay, yet they fucking did it anyway, much like the Swoop garbage that undercut WJ pilots.
The B scale you like to bleet on about was dollar for fucking dollar to Scab Regional because guess what, if we didn’t compete for the work, we were going to shrink away to nothing, CR said that too! So, we competed for the work that was originally ours to begin with, smart play by the AC C suite, drove our wages down to well behind inflation, starting salary at Jazz would be around 86-88k this year if it weren’t for those scabs.
So, the plan was to compete and bring all the regional work back in house so we can stop competing and bring the wages back, no more B scale, 30-50% raises last September and likely more after AC is through with their negotiations and we get to the CIRB facilitated meetings about the contract violations!
Yes, we voted in a matching contract for new hires who also benefit from a mature CBA with much better protections and benefits and as a result we were able to rid ourselves of the scourge that was SR and GGN dragging all of us down, so, I won’t apologize for it, did what we had to do the keep our company and good jobs going, so @#$! off

You physically took a pay cut? you gave up 1-1 YOS for upgrade? you gave up your DB pension? Did you get affected when SR and GGN came in with DOH? Did you get $12,000 in the last MOS and lost nothing?

I really wouldn't come here and say "I did what I to had to survive". You screwed the guy behind you. You'd didn't sacrifice shit.

THIS

you can tap youself in the back as much as you want for ''saving Jazz''

reality is, you screwed 17 years of new hires !

Reality check, this has been beaten to death over and over and fucking over, pilots had a choice, take the fucking conditions offered or don’t, I didn’t force them to do it, I gave them a choice and they did. I don’t blame them, the fact was if they didn’t 20 others were standing by ready to do it.
As for your snide comments about saving Jazz, the alternative was shittier jobs at a shittier outfit, so for that I say, you’re fucking welcome!
Now, @#$! off!

[cdnavater]

Don't blame another company for a contract that was voted by your group.. With a B scale!

Make all those appendix hard to understand, i usually took the worst appendix for my pay, as last generation usually @#$! us over to get a better part of the pie

Ok, so when Jazz was the highest paid regional pilots anywhere but more importantly in North America, Air Canada created Sky Regional as a direct result of our 98% vote to strike resulting in moderate gains, not rumoured, CR literally said it, who would you blame?
Sky Regional pilots were well aware of the work they were taking for much, much less pay, yet they fucking did it anyway, much like the Swoop garbage that undercut WJ pilots.
The B scale you like to bleet on about was dollar for fucking dollar to Scab Regional because guess what, if we didn’t compete for the work, we were going to shrink away to nothing, CR said that too! So, we competed for the work that was originally ours to begin with, smart play by the AC C suite, drove our wages down to well behind inflation, starting salary at Jazz would be around 86-88k this year if it weren’t for those scabs.
So, the plan was to compete and bring all the regional work back in house so we can stop competing and bring the wages back, no more B scale, 30-50% raises last September and likely more after AC is through with their negotiations and we get to the CIRB facilitated meetings about the contract violations!
Yes, we voted in a matching contract for new hires who also benefit from a mature CBA with much better protections and benefits and as a result we were able to rid ourselves of the scourge that was SR and GGN dragging all of us down, so, I won’t apologize for it, did what we had to do the keep our company and good jobs going, so @#$! off

You physically took a pay cut? you gave up 1-1 YOS for upgrade? you gave up your DB pension? Did you get affected when SR and GGN came in with DOH? Did you get $12,000 in the last MOS and lost nothing?

I really wouldn't come here and say "I did what I to had to survive". You screwed the guy behind you. You'd didn't sacrifice shit.

Nick, you’re right, I didn’t go backwards but I absolutely stood still for the better part of the last decade, gains were impossible under the reality we found ourselves in, so ever since our gains in 2010, nothing but 2%.
Where would we be if not for those scabs, that is why I got a longevity award because I have been on the losing end of any gains made since 2015, any gains since then were always applied to the juniors to try and bring them up a bit. So, yah, I fucking got a small cheque after Trudeau got his pound of flesh, 6kish. Big fucken deal, that’s barely a blip in my last 10 years, it should have been more!

[CaptDukeNukem]

Ok, so when Jazz was the highest paid regional pilots anywhere but more importantly in North America, Air Canada created Sky Regional as a direct result of our 98% vote to strike resulting in moderate gains, not rumoured, CR literally said it, who would you blame?
Sky Regional pilots were well aware of the work they were taking for much, much less pay, yet they fucking did it anyway, much like the Swoop garbage that undercut WJ pilots.
The B scale you like to bleet on about was dollar for fucking dollar to Scab Regional because guess what, if we didn’t compete for the work, we were going to shrink away to nothing, CR said that too! So, we competed for the work that was originally ours to begin with, smart play by the AC C suite, drove our wages down to well behind inflation, starting salary at Jazz would be around 86-88k this year if it weren’t for those scabs.
So, the plan was to compete and bring all the regional work back in house so we can stop competing and bring the wages back, no more B scale, 30-50% raises last September and likely more after AC is through with their negotiations and we get to the CIRB facilitated meetings about the contract violations!
Yes, we voted in a matching contract for new hires who also benefit from a mature CBA with much better protections and benefits and as a result we were able to rid ourselves of the scourge that was SR and GGN dragging all of us down, so, I won’t apologize for it, did what we had to do the keep our company and good jobs going, so @#$! off

You physically took a pay cut? you gave up 1-1 YOS for upgrade? you gave up your DB pension? Did you get affected when SR and GGN came in with DOH? Did you get $12,000 in the last MOS and lost nothing?

I really wouldn't come here and say "I did what I to had to survive". You screwed the guy behind you. You'd didn't sacrifice shit.

Nick, you’re right, I didn’t go backwards but I absolutely stood still for the better part of the last decade, gains were impossible under the reality we found ourselves in, so ever since our gains in 2010, nothing but 2%.
Where would we be if not for those scabs, that is why I got a longevity award because I have been on the losing end of any gains made since 2015, any gains since then were always applied to the juniors to try and bring them up a bit. So, yah, I fucking got a small cheque after Trudeau got his pound of flesh, 6kish. Big fucken deal, that’s barely a blip in my last 10 years, it should have been more!

Didn’t go backwards eh??? So I guess you went forward. Only logical. Keep the pension, keep the seniority, keep the business class DHs. Awesome…. F@cķ everyone else.

Good work, you did great for the industry in signing a 17 year contract with little to no openers…. AC laughing at you. So is the rest of the world.

[cdnavater]

You physically took a pay cut? you gave up 1-1 YOS for upgrade? you gave up your DB pension? Did you get affected when SR and GGN came in with DOH? Did you get $12,000 in the last MOS and lost nothing?

I really wouldn't come here and say "I did what I to had to survive". You screwed the guy behind you. You'd didn't sacrifice shit.

Nick, you’re right, I didn’t go backwards but I absolutely stood still for the better part of the last decade, gains were impossible under the reality we found ourselves in, so ever since our gains in 2010, nothing but 2%.
Where would we be if not for those scabs, that is why I got a longevity award because I have been on the losing end of any gains made since 2015, any gains since then were always applied to the juniors to try and bring them up a bit. So, yah, I fucking got a small cheque after Trudeau got his pound of flesh, 6kish. Big fucken deal, that’s barely a blip in my last 10 years, it should have been more!

Didn’t go backwards eh??? So I guess you went forward. Only logical. Keep the pension, keep the seniority, keep the business class DHs. Awesome…. F@cķ everyone else.

Good work, you did great for the industry in signing a 17 year contract with little to no openers…. AC laughing at you. So is the rest of the world.

Yah but we got rid of you, so all’s well that ends well!
You also know full well that 2% per year is as good of a pay cut as actually taking a pay cut, if you don’t then you are stupider than I thought!

[rudder]

I was just reading the latest financial report and I read something interesting, I and it seems most thought our fleet guarantee goes to 80 this Dec 31st and unless it’s a mistake which I doubt, the covered guarantee is 105 to Dec 31,2025.
This changes the timeline on what I thought was a time constraint, after the Falko/RAL sale, they have another year to renegotiate the CPA, so the sale of Jazz may be slightly delayed from my earlier prediction, to be clear, I still see it as a possibility.

Jazz does not have enough line pilots on staff to operate 105 fully utilized fins. So a debate about 80 fins now or 80 fins Dec 31, 2025 is effectively moot.

[cdnavater]

I was just reading the latest financial report and I read something interesting, I and it seems most thought our fleet guarantee goes to 80 this Dec 31st and unless it’s a mistake which I doubt, the covered guarantee is 105 to Dec 31,2025.
This changes the timeline on what I thought was a time constraint, after the Falko/RAL sale, they have another year to renegotiate the CPA, so the sale of Jazz may be slightly delayed from my earlier prediction, to be clear, I still see it as a possibility.

Jazz does not have enough line pilots on staff to operate 105 fully utilized fins. So a debate about 80 fins now or 80 fins Dec 31, 2025 is effectively moot.

True enough, I was thinking of the timing of a possible sale of Jazz, after the sale of the RAL asset, after the AC pilots have a new CBA, I originally thought maybe early in the new year, I’m still leaning that way.
Keeping in mind, those extra 25 fins have a revenue for Chorus whether we fly or don’t fly them, so AC only gains by purchasing Jazz.

[Man_in_the_sky]

I was just reading the latest financial report and I read something interesting, I and it seems most thought our fleet guarantee goes to 80 this Dec 31st and unless it’s a mistake which I doubt, the covered guarantee is 105 to Dec 31,2025.
This changes the timeline on what I thought was a time constraint, after the Falko/RAL sale, they have another year to renegotiate the CPA, so the sale of Jazz may be slightly delayed from my earlier prediction, to be clear, I still see it as a possibility.

Jazz does not have enough line pilots on staff to operate 105 fully utilized fins. So a debate about 80 fins now or 80 fins Dec 31, 2025 is effectively moot.

True enough, I was thinking of the timing of a possible sale of Jazz, after the sale of the RAL asset, after the AC pilots have a new CBA, I originally thought maybe early in the new year, I’m still leaning that way.
Keeping in mind, those extra 25 fins have a revenue for Chorus whether we fly or don’t fly them, so AC only gains by purchasing Jazz.

Can’t put all the eggs in the same basket.

[cdnavater]

Jazz does not have enough line pilots on staff to operate 105 fully utilized fins. So a debate about 80 fins now or 80 fins Dec 31, 2025 is effectively moot.

True enough, I was thinking of the timing of a possible sale of Jazz, after the sale of the RAL asset, after the AC pilots have a new CBA, I originally thought maybe early in the new year, I’m still leaning that way.
Keeping in mind, those extra 25 fins have a revenue for Chorus whether we fly or don’t fly them, so AC only gains by purchasing Jazz.

Can’t put all the eggs in the same basket.

They won’t be, PAL operating Q400s out East and out West, rumours about CMA operating Qs for AC, an article from Aug 20 says CMAs first Q400, so they have one and that’s not a rumour, always smoke before a fire!
AC will look to diversify the regional flying again as soon as possible, they like to repeat methods from the past that produced results, no doubt this is one of their favourites.
Apparently AC is planning 7300 pilots by 2025, according to the info from the rally today, I was surprised it was so many, given the new pilots up and coming getting experience elsewhere probably don’t amount to the 2000 more required by end of next year, I know where they can get about 1200 of them, do you?

[Man_in_the_sky]

True enough, I was thinking of the timing of a possible sale of Jazz, after the sale of the RAL asset, after the AC pilots have a new CBA, I originally thought maybe early in the new year, I’m still leaning that way.
Keeping in mind, those extra 25 fins have a revenue for Chorus whether we fly or don’t fly them, so AC only gains by purchasing Jazz.

Can’t put all the eggs in the same basket.

They won’t be, PAL operating Q400s out East and out West, rumours about CMA operating Qs for AC, an article from Aug 20 says CMAs first Q400, so they have one and that’s not a rumour, always smoke before a fire!
AC will look to diversify the regional flying again as soon as possible, they like to repeat methods from the past that produced results, no doubt this is one of their favourites.
Apparently AC is planning 7300 pilots by 2025, according to the info from the rally today, I was surprised it was so many, given the new pilots up and coming getting experience elsewhere probably don’t amount to the 2000 more required by end of next year, I know where they can get about 1200 of them, do you?

I don’t and i’m sure they don’t also.

Might have a cadet program in the thinking, might be finally thinking about giving decent money so pilots jump ship!

Best new hire from AC is another pilot from
A competitor.. only triggers 1 training

Flowing a jazz pilot cost them the ac initial, and the jazz replacement’s initial

They have to find a way to make themself THE place to be again.

[rudder]

I cannot buy in to this ‘seniority list 7300’ claim. There is no empirical evidence (aircraft orders/route announcements/etc) that AC is planning a fleet that requires 7300 pilots.

Of course everything subject to change, but right now that wouldn’t even be on the horizon.