The FAA Plans To Enforce Merit-Based Hiring Standards

[pelmet]

In reality, it doesn't attract very many people but men are much more willing to bite the bullet and do the job than women. In other words, a lot more women will outright refuse to do that job than men when push comes to shove, even if the monetary reward is reasonable.

Again, I think you are not very familiar with garbage collection and are using it as some kind of generic "undesirable, will hire anyone" type job. It's actually not. Garbage collection is typically unionized and the workers make decent money for a job requiring no education. So what is your source for saying it doesn't attract many people? Municipalities seem to have no issues staffing waste management departments.

There are plenty of women with "no education" that would welcome a unionized, good paying job. I am also familiar with the fact that I have never, ever seen a female garbage collector. Whether it is desirable overall is irrelevant. The question is why are women not working there? You know and I know. (except in Golden Eagle world where women apparently flock to this as a career).

[pelmet]

I would call that an irrelevant argument. The more important question would be prior to becoming aware of the hostile professional environment.... what was a male/female ratio in her training class. I bet it was tiny, which proves lack of attraction. Assuming that the same professional environments(or similar) were encountered by women entering other fields that they have come to dominate, one would assume that the hostile environments in those other fields did not change the inevitable outcome. Women still flocked to become doctors, lawyers, air traffic controllers but why not plumbers, trash collectors, or pilots? Not as interested in some cases and not as willing to do so in other cases.

First of all, the tiny ratio could be due to girls not even realizing this career field is open to them. Gender norms and influences get ingrained very early on.

Females know that every career is open to them now. Can we stop the intentional lies? Do you honestly think that somehow, there were only career fairs in the last 30 years that were only for men to get into aviation. In fact, it is the exact opposite with Women In Aviation all over the place. If anything, it is the exact opposite. So why not explain how so many guys got into airline piloting careers when there were no Men in Aviation programs specifically targeting them? Folks, I'm afraid that it is all made up lies as excuses instead of accepting the reality. Why do people refuse to accept reality?

Gender norms are biological. They happen prior to birth. They are also what has created successful civilization over the millennia. The clothes that you in particular wear and don't wear every day are gender norms. It is not discrimination. It is not discrimination that masny more women paint their nails or wear make-up. It is gender norms.

It is amazing how the DEI types come up with endless excuses instead of actually asking some females in lower paying jobs that they know as to why they did not choose a career as a mechanic working in grease, a career in stinky plumbing, or a better paying job in trash collecting. Perhaps a large percentage will tell you that there is no damn way they would ever consider such a thing, despite the extra money.

Try it and see the reaction and get back to us with real world answers. Then you will understand that there is a different thought process.

By the way....a good article by a woman interviewing a woman as to the reason a higher percentage of women leave high paying careers(which results in lower male/female ratios). It is not the evil discrimination lie, it is the reality of different goals in life...

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20 ... -interview

I strongly suggest that you read the above linked article for real world reasons for the gender imbalances and realize how you are being lied to by the DEI supporters and their excuses.


Can we stop the DEI discrimination lies now?

[lostav8r]

I would call that an irrelevant argument. The more important question would be prior to becoming aware of the hostile professional environment.... what was a male/female ratio in her training class. I bet it was tiny, which proves lack of attraction. Assuming that the same professional environments(or similar) were encountered by women entering other fields that they have come to dominate, one would assume that the hostile environments in those other fields did not change the inevitable outcome. Women still flocked to become doctors, lawyers, air traffic controllers but why not plumbers, trash collectors, or pilots? Not as interested in some cases and not as willing to do so in other cases.

First of all, the tiny ratio could be due to girls not even realizing this career field is open to them. Gender norms and influences get ingrained very early on.

Females know that every career is open to them now. Can we stop the intentional lies? Do you honestly think that somehow, there were only career fairs in the last 30 years that were only for men to get into aviation. In fact, it is the exact opposite with Women In Aviation all over the place. If anything, it is the exact opposite. So why not explain how so many guys got into airline piloting careers when there were no Men in Aviation programs specifically targeting them? Folks, I'm afraid that it is all made up lies as excuses instead of accepting the reality. Why do people refuse to accept reality?

Gender norms are biological. They happen prior to birth. They are also what has created successful civilization over the millennia. The clothes that you in particular wear and don't wear every day are gender norms. It is not discrimination. It is not discrimination that masny more women paint their nails or wear make-up. It is gender norms.

It is amazing how the DEI types come up with endless excuses instead of actually asking some females in lower paying jobs that they know as to why they did not choose a career as a mechanic working in grease, a career in stinky plumbing, or a better paying job in trash collecting. Perhaps a large percentage will tell you that there is no damn way they would ever consider such a thing, despite the extra money.

Try it and see the reaction and get back to us with real world answers. Then you will understand that there is a different thought process.

By the way....a good article by a woman interviewing a woman as to the reason a higher percentage of women leave high paying careers(which results in lower male/female ratios). It is not the evil discrimination lie, it is the reality of different goals in life...

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20 ... -interview

I strongly suggest that you read the above linked article for real world reasons for the gender imbalances and realize how you are being lied to by the DEI supporters and their excuses.


Can we stop the DEI discrimination lies now?

Have you ever actually asked a woman why they don't go into this field? Have you ever talked to a woman in the trades? The reason is the men!

[pelmet]

First of all, the tiny ratio could be due to girls not even realizing this career field is open to them. Gender norms and influences get ingrained very early on.

Females know that every career is open to them now. Can we stop the intentional lies? Do you honestly think that somehow, there were only career fairs in the last 30 years that were only for men to get into aviation. In fact, it is the exact opposite with Women In Aviation all over the place. If anything, it is the exact opposite. So why not explain how so many guys got into airline piloting careers when there were no Men in Aviation programs specifically targeting them? Folks, I'm afraid that it is all made up lies as excuses instead of accepting the reality. Why do people refuse to accept reality?

Gender norms are biological. They happen prior to birth. They are also what has created successful civilization over the millennia. The clothes that you in particular wear and don't wear every day are gender norms. It is not discrimination. It is not discrimination that masny more women paint their nails or wear make-up. It is gender norms.

It is amazing how the DEI types come up with endless excuses instead of actually asking some females in lower paying jobs that they know as to why they did not choose a career as a mechanic working in grease, a career in stinky plumbing, or a better paying job in trash collecting. Perhaps a large percentage will tell you that there is no damn way they would ever consider such a thing, despite the extra money.

Try it and see the reaction and get back to us with real world answers. Then you will understand that there is a different thought process.

By the way....a good article by a woman interviewing a woman as to the reason a higher percentage of women leave high paying careers(which results in lower male/female ratios). It is not the evil discrimination lie, it is the reality of different goals in life...

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20 ... -interview

I strongly suggest that you read the above linked article for real world reasons for the gender imbalances and realize how you are being lied to by the DEI supporters and their excuses.


Can we stop the DEI discrimination lies now?

Have you ever actually asked a woman why they don't go into this field? Have you ever talked to a woman in the trades? The reason is the men!

Well there you go folks. We now know that if the city I live in decides to stop using private companies for trash collection and decides to hire only women for a city owned trash collection company, there will be about as many female job applicants as there are male applicants in the current model. Oh wait a minute, they will say the little girls didn’t get proper schooling to let them know about this option.

Folks, you can see the ridiculous statements.

The DEI supporters are frauds with fraud arguments.

They can’t be reasoned with and that is why Trump simply steamrolled their bigoted policies. I have been waiting a long time for that.

[lostav8r]

Females know that every career is open to them now. Can we stop the intentional lies? Do you honestly think that somehow, there were only career fairs in the last 30 years that were only for men to get into aviation. In fact, it is the exact opposite with Women In Aviation all over the place. If anything, it is the exact opposite. So why not explain how so many guys got into airline piloting careers when there were no Men in Aviation programs specifically targeting them? Folks, I'm afraid that it is all made up lies as excuses instead of accepting the reality. Why do people refuse to accept reality?

Gender norms are biological. They happen prior to birth. They are also what has created successful civilization over the millennia. The clothes that you in particular wear and don't wear every day are gender norms. It is not discrimination. It is not discrimination that masny more women paint their nails or wear make-up. It is gender norms.

It is amazing how the DEI types come up with endless excuses instead of actually asking some females in lower paying jobs that they know as to why they did not choose a career as a mechanic working in grease, a career in stinky plumbing, or a better paying job in trash collecting. Perhaps a large percentage will tell you that there is no damn way they would ever consider such a thing, despite the extra money.

Try it and see the reaction and get back to us with real world answers. Then you will understand that there is a different thought process.

By the way....a good article by a woman interviewing a woman as to the reason a higher percentage of women leave high paying careers(which results in lower male/female ratios). It is not the evil discrimination lie, it is the reality of different goals in life...

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20 ... -interview

I strongly suggest that you read the above linked article for real world reasons for the gender imbalances and realize how you are being lied to by the DEI supporters and their excuses.


Can we stop the DEI discrimination lies now?

Have you ever actually asked a woman why they don't go into this field? Have you ever talked to a woman in the trades? The reason is the men!

Well there you go folks. We now know that if the city I live in decides to stop using private companies for trash collection and decides to hire only women for a city owned trash collection company, there will be about as many female job applicants as there are male applicants in the current model. Oh wait a minute, they will say the little girls didn’t get proper schooling to let them know about this option.

Folks, you can see the ridiculous statements.

The DEI supporters are frauds with fraud arguments.

They can’t be reasoned with and that is why Trump simply steamrolled their bigoted policies. I have been waiting a long time for that.

In my view, you often have an incredibly antagonistic tone? You never actually ask what people think, you put words in their mouth and make strawman arguments so you can belittle them for something they never said. What are you trying to do here?

I hate the extreme viewpoints on both sides, YES the majority of men are stronger than the majority of women. Trash hauling is a tough job, and realistically most women are offput by the job for that and many other reasons.


I think society also steers people in certain directions, I think men are encouraged to pursue things like problem solving which is part of why most engineers are men. There are MANY additional factors, I think culture is a big issue in many fields, are we going to say sexism isn't a thing? Look at literally every blue collar job, people COMPETE to see who has it the worst. I spelt 3 hours, well I stayed up all night princess.

Why TF don't we try and tackle those issues in the workforce?

[pelmet]

Have you ever actually asked a woman why they don't go into this field? Have you ever talked to a woman in the trades? The reason is the men!

Well there you go folks. We now know that if the city I live in decides to stop using private companies for trash collection and decides to hire only women for a city owned trash collection company, there will be about as many female job applicants as there are male applicants in the current model. Oh wait a minute, they will say the little girls didn’t get proper schooling to let them know about this option.

Folks, you can see the ridiculous statements.

The DEI supporters are frauds with fraud arguments.

They can’t be reasoned with and that is why Trump simply steamrolled their bigoted policies. I have been waiting a long time for that.

In my view, you often have an incredibly antagonistic tone? You never actually ask what people think, you put words in their mouth and make strawman arguments so you can belittle them for something they never said. What are you trying to do here?

I hate the extreme viewpoints on both sides, YES the majority of men are stronger than the majority of women. Trash hauling is a tough job, and realistically most women are offput by the job for that and many other reasons.


I think society also steers people in certain directions, I think men are encouraged to pursue things like problem solving which is part of why most engineers are men. There are MANY additional factors, I think culture is a big issue in many fields, are we going to say sexism isn't a thing? Look at literally every blue collar job, people COMPETE to see who has it the worst. I spelt 3 hours, well I stayed up all night princess.

Why TF don't we try and tackle those issues in the workforce?

I don’t believe that my viewpoint is extreme. It is simply meritocracy. Simple as that.

As for your argument that society encourages men into problem solving careers(I don’t agree or disagree)…I have a simple solution: In grade school, it is made clear that all students are encouraged to pursue problem solving careers. But, only the highest marks on the entrance exams will be accepted. Simple solution, if this is an actual problem.

One can complain about an antagonistic tone, but I would say that it pales to the racism insults from the DEI types and the lost career opportunities of their victims. If I hurt their feelings……..so be it.

[lostav8r]

Well there you go folks. We now know that if the city I live in decides to stop using private companies for trash collection and decides to hire only women for a city owned trash collection company, there will be about as many female job applicants as there are male applicants in the current model. Oh wait a minute, they will say the little girls didn’t get proper schooling to let them know about this option.

Folks, you can see the ridiculous statements.

The DEI supporters are frauds with fraud arguments.

They can’t be reasoned with and that is why Trump simply steamrolled their bigoted policies. I have been waiting a long time for that.

In my view, you often have an incredibly antagonistic tone? You never actually ask what people think, you put words in their mouth and make strawman arguments so you can belittle them for something they never said. What are you trying to do here?

I hate the extreme viewpoints on both sides, YES the majority of men are stronger than the majority of women. Trash hauling is a tough job, and realistically most women are offput by the job for that and many other reasons.


I think society also steers people in certain directions, I think men are encouraged to pursue things like problem solving which is part of why most engineers are men. There are MANY additional factors, I think culture is a big issue in many fields, are we going to say sexism isn't a thing? Look at literally every blue collar job, people COMPETE to see who has it the worst. I spelt 3 hours, well I stayed up all night princess.

Why TF don't we try and tackle those issues in the workforce?

I don’t believe that my viewpoint is extreme. It is simply meritocracy. Simple as that.

As for your argument that society encourages men into problem solving careers(I don’t agree or disagree)…I have a simple solution: In grade school, it is made clear that all students are encouraged to pursue problem solving careers. But, only the highest marks on the entrance exams will be accepted. Simple solution, if this is an actual problem.

One can complain about an antagonistic tone, but I would say that it pales to the racism insults from the DEI types and the lost career opportunities of their victims. If I hurt their feelings……..so be it.

The issue is, it's hard to take about any of this stuff without examining basically every aspect of how man are treated differently from women (and vice versa) in society from childhood to adults. DEI is such a broad phrase it's almost worthless to use. It could mean almost anything to anyone.

As an extreme example US universities have different SAT entry requirements for different races. The reason is nearly every single student accepted would be an Asian male. I really don't think this is the proper fix though.

A lot of my family works in education and we all think most grading systems are worthless when it comes to real world performance.
Some people/groups do amazing on rote memorization, that shows up amazing on a test but you're fucked in the real world the moment the situation is different from what you studied.

Women have been taught from childhood there are certain things they shouldn't pursue, and certain traits they should avoid! If a man is decisive and direct we call them a natural leader. I've know multiple very successful women and the exact same quality in them was called bitchy.

Why do you think there are so many Jewish lawyers? The Torah says if you can find a workaround for one of gods rules, that's a reward for using your brain. There are tons of loopholes they can use to get out of things like operating machines on the sabbath. That's something ingrained in the culture. It's just an example of how different cultures value different traits.

I don't agree with every DEI initiative but homogenous groups make poorer decisions overall. There is a lot of evidence of this, DEI is trying to fix these sorts of issues.

https://kimmalonescott.medium.com/homog ... d96b116a33
https://www.neuroleadership.com/article ... jectively.
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.ed ... 20process.

We all know every single flying job has way more qualified applicants than there are spots. I don't see harm in trying to bring in qualified people with a different background or perspective than the overwhelming majority of people currently working there.

[pelmet]

The issue is, it's hard to take about any of this stuff without examining basically every aspect of how man are treated differently from women (and vice versa) in society from childhood to adults. DEI is such a broad phrase it's almost worthless to use. It could mean almost anything to anyone.

As an extreme example US universities have different SAT entry requirements for different races. The reason is nearly every single student accepted would be an Asian male. I really don't think this is the proper fix though.

A lot of my family works in education and we all think most grading systems are worthless when it comes to real world performance.
Some people/groups do amazing on rote memorization, that shows up amazing on a test but you're fucked in the real world the moment the situation is different from what you studied.

Women have been taught from childhood there are certain things they shouldn't pursue, and certain traits they should avoid! If a man is decisive and direct we call them a natural leader. I've know multiple very successful women and the exact same quality in them was called bitchy.

Why do you think there are so many Jewish lawyers? The Torah says if you can find a workaround for one of gods rules, that's a reward for using your brain. There are tons of loopholes they can use to get out of things like operating machines on the sabbath. That's something ingrained in the culture. It's just an example of how different cultures value different traits.

I don't agree with every DEI initiative but homogenous groups make poorer decisions overall. There is a lot of evidence of this, DEI is trying to fix these sorts of issues.

https://kimmalonescott.medium.com/homog ... d96b116a33
https://www.neuroleadership.com/article ... jectively.
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.ed ... 20process.

We all know every single flying job has way more qualified applicants than there are spots. I don't see harm in trying to bring in qualified people with a different background or perspective than the overwhelming majority of people currently working there.

If every single university entrant based on merit were to be Asian, what is wrong with that? They earned it through more study. It is not fair to do otherwise.

If the memorization method is not the best method for entrance exams, then change the method, not implement bigotry.

Just because someone is called bitchy doesn’t mean they should get preference in hiring/school entry. I was called all kinds of nasty names in school. That should have zero consideration for getting a job as a pilot.

There are endless programs encouraging women to enter the workforce.

With regard to your leadership discussion, suggest that you do a search for Women Don’t Like Female Bosses for some interesting reading. Not my fault that such an issue exists and should have zero effect on hiring policies.

Lawyers are highly paid. That is why there are a lot of Jewish lawyers. Not sure why you are bringing this up but you appear to desperately grasping at any justification for your DEI policies.

My suggestion is that for those such as yourself, who support hiring based on background identify yourselves as the ones supportive of such a bigoted policy in order to be able to be identified as the ones who will lose out as compared to an innocent person.

Your studies will just be more fraudulent bias BS arguments that repeatedly see. I mean seriously....here is a quote:"One team I’m familiar with had nine white men, one white woman, and one Indian American Man — and they bragged about their diversity. That’s what I call Math of the Overrepresented. I’ve heard leaders whose teams look like this say revealingly biased things to shut down the conversation when they are questioned.

“What do you want me to do, lower the bar? I’m just not going to do that!” Or they’ll smile sadly and say it’s because people from certain demographics “don’t want the job.”

The underlying assumption is that people from a historically advantaged demographic are automatically going to be better at the job.

That seems extremely unlikely to me. It’s my instinct that if you’ve got a homogeneous team, you’ve overestimated the skills of some of the people on your team and overlooked the skills of some people not on your team.

Wow...so something seems "unlikely" to he and her "instinct" is something else. Thanks for the detailed analysis Miss. And this kind of stuff is LostAv8tor's proof of his argument.

I just love your general argument though…….You don’t agree with every DEI policy but I support DEI. Well, which policies do you not support. Feel free to take time to make up an answer.

[lostav8r]

The issue is, it's hard to take about any of this stuff without examining basically every aspect of how man are treated differently from women (and vice versa) in society from childhood to adults. DEI is such a broad phrase it's almost worthless to use. It could mean almost anything to anyone.

As an extreme example US universities have different SAT entry requirements for different races. The reason is nearly every single student accepted would be an Asian male. I really don't think this is the proper fix though.

A lot of my family works in education and we all think most grading systems are worthless when it comes to real world performance.
Some people/groups do amazing on rote memorization, that shows up amazing on a test but you're fucked in the real world the moment the situation is different from what you studied.

Women have been taught from childhood there are certain things they shouldn't pursue, and certain traits they should avoid! If a man is decisive and direct we call them a natural leader. I've know multiple very successful women and the exact same quality in them was called bitchy.

Why do you think there are so many Jewish lawyers? The Torah says if you can find a workaround for one of gods rules, that's a reward for using your brain. There are tons of loopholes they can use to get out of things like operating machines on the sabbath. That's something ingrained in the culture. It's just an example of how different cultures value different traits.

I don't agree with every DEI initiative but homogenous groups make poorer decisions overall. There is a lot of evidence of this, DEI is trying to fix these sorts of issues.

https://kimmalonescott.medium.com/homog ... d96b116a33
https://www.neuroleadership.com/article ... jectively.
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.ed ... 20process.

We all know every single flying job has way more qualified applicants than there are spots. I don't see harm in trying to bring in qualified people with a different background or perspective than the overwhelming majority of people currently working there.

If every single university entrant based on merit were to be Asian, what is wrong with that? They earned it through more study. It is not fair to do otherwise.

If the memorization method is not the best method for entrance exams, then change the method, not implement bigotry.

Just because someone is called bitchy doesn’t mean they should get preference in hiring/school entry. I was called all kinds of nasty names in school. That should have zero consideration for getting a job as a pilot.

There are endless programs encouraging women to enter the workforce.

With regard to your leadership discussion, suggest that you do a search for Women Don’t Like Female Bosses for some interesting reading. Not my fault that such an issue exists and should have zero effect on hiring policies.

Lawyers are highly paid. That is why there are a lot of Jewish lawyers. Not sure why you are bringing this up but you appear to desperately grasping at any justification for your DEI policies.

My suggestion is that for those such as yourself, who support hiring based on background identify yourselves as the ones supportive of such a bigoted policy in order to be able to be identified as the ones who will lose out as compared to an innocent person.

Your studies will just be more fraudulent bias BS arguments that repeatedly see. I mean seriously....here is a quote:"One team I’m familiar with had nine white men, one white woman, and one Indian American Man — and they bragged about their diversity. That’s what I call Math of the Overrepresented. I’ve heard leaders whose teams look like this say revealingly biased things to shut down the conversation when they are questioned.

“What do you want me to do, lower the bar? I’m just not going to do that!” Or they’ll smile sadly and say it’s because people from certain demographics “don’t want the job.”

The underlying assumption is that people from a historically advantaged demographic are automatically going to be better at the job.

That seems extremely unlikely to me. It’s my instinct that if you’ve got a homogeneous team, you’ve overestimated the skills of some of the people on your team and overlooked the skills of some people not on your team.

Wow...so something seems "unlikely" to he and her "instinct" is something else. Thanks for the detailed analysis Miss. And this kind of stuff is LostAv8tor's proof of his argument.

I just love your general argument though…….You don’t agree with every DEI policy but I support DEI. Well, which policies do you not support. Feel free to take time to make up an answer.

I wrote a long response and of course AV crashed when I hit submit. I'm not going to re-write paragraphs, but my point was you've probably seen the world for the same way for 50+ years. People are conditioned to act a certain way, even the fact women don't like female bosses is proof of the conditioning I'm talking about.

I don't want to argue with you or anyone. I want to point out a different perspective of the world. CRM was brought in for a similar reason. Eventually you find things wrong with the culture and it takes a while to change them.

[pelmet]

The issue is, it's hard to take about any of this stuff without examining basically every aspect of how man are treated differently from women (and vice versa) in society from childhood to adults. DEI is such a broad phrase it's almost worthless to use. It could mean almost anything to anyone.

As an extreme example US universities have different SAT entry requirements for different races. The reason is nearly every single student accepted would be an Asian male. I really don't think this is the proper fix though.

A lot of my family works in education and we all think most grading systems are worthless when it comes to real world performance.
Some people/groups do amazing on rote memorization, that shows up amazing on a test but you're fucked in the real world the moment the situation is different from what you studied.

Women have been taught from childhood there are certain things they shouldn't pursue, and certain traits they should avoid! If a man is decisive and direct we call them a natural leader. I've know multiple very successful women and the exact same quality in them was called bitchy.

Why do you think there are so many Jewish lawyers? The Torah says if you can find a workaround for one of gods rules, that's a reward for using your brain. There are tons of loopholes they can use to get out of things like operating machines on the sabbath. That's something ingrained in the culture. It's just an example of how different cultures value different traits.

I don't agree with every DEI initiative but homogenous groups make poorer decisions overall. There is a lot of evidence of this, DEI is trying to fix these sorts of issues.

https://kimmalonescott.medium.com/homog ... d96b116a33
https://www.neuroleadership.com/article ... jectively.
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.ed ... 20process.

We all know every single flying job has way more qualified applicants than there are spots. I don't see harm in trying to bring in qualified people with a different background or perspective than the overwhelming majority of people currently working there.

If every single university entrant based on merit were to be Asian, what is wrong with that? They earned it through more study. It is not fair to do otherwise.

If the memorization method is not the best method for entrance exams, then change the method, not implement bigotry.

Just because someone is called bitchy doesn’t mean they should get preference in hiring/school entry. I was called all kinds of nasty names in school. That should have zero consideration for getting a job as a pilot.

There are endless programs encouraging women to enter the workforce.

With regard to your leadership discussion, suggest that you do a search for Women Don’t Like Female Bosses for some interesting reading. Not my fault that such an issue exists and should have zero effect on hiring policies.

Lawyers are highly paid. That is why there are a lot of Jewish lawyers. Not sure why you are bringing this up but you appear to desperately grasping at any justification for your DEI policies.

My suggestion is that for those such as yourself, who support hiring based on background identify yourselves as the ones supportive of such a bigoted policy in order to be able to be identified as the ones who will lose out as compared to an innocent person.

Your studies will just be more fraudulent bias BS arguments that repeatedly see. I mean seriously....here is a quote:"One team I’m familiar with had nine white men, one white woman, and one Indian American Man — and they bragged about their diversity. That’s what I call Math of the Overrepresented. I’ve heard leaders whose teams look like this say revealingly biased things to shut down the conversation when they are questioned.

“What do you want me to do, lower the bar? I’m just not going to do that!” Or they’ll smile sadly and say it’s because people from certain demographics “don’t want the job.”

The underlying assumption is that people from a historically advantaged demographic are automatically going to be better at the job.

That seems extremely unlikely to me. It’s my instinct that if you’ve got a homogeneous team, you’ve overestimated the skills of some of the people on your team and overlooked the skills of some people not on your team.

Wow...so something seems "unlikely" to he and her "instinct" is something else. Thanks for the detailed analysis Miss. And this kind of stuff is LostAv8tor's proof of his argument.

I just love your general argument though…….You don’t agree with every DEI policy but I support DEI. Well, which policies do you not support. Feel free to take time to make up an answer.

I wrote a long response and of course AV crashed when I hit submit. I'm not going to re-write paragraphs, but my point was you've probably seen the world for the same way for 50+ years. People are conditioned to act a certain way, even the fact women don't like female bosses is proof of the conditioning I'm talking about.

I don't want to argue with you or anyone. I want to point out a different perspective of the world. CRM was brought in for a similar reason. Eventually you find things wrong with the culture and it takes a while to change them.

Thanks,

Maybe time to end the discussion. I appreciate the input. I do think that people come up with any and every excuse to justify their position when they are frequently, not realistic.

For all those years that I have had the position of everybody being treated equally, I have not changed my position. It is the only fair way, and while I won't give any details, have had significant effect in making sure fairness was returned to being implemented. Very proud of that.

[pelmet]

While part of a different discussion, this excerpt has the real reason so few women are in certain profession despite being favoured......relative lack of drive for those professions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgl0SCaLwkc

[Prodriver]

This is a fitting video, enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBym0UZJheQ

[lostav8r]

While part of a different discussion, this excerpt has the real reason so few women are in certain profession despite being favoured......relative lack of drive for those professions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgl0SCaLwkc

Holy incel batman, look at the comments

[propfeather]

This is a fitting video, enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBym0UZJheQ

That's pretty wack, are pilots given 'DEI' passes on checkrides that should have been failures?

The worst pilots I've ever flown with have been white dudes. Females have generally been above average in my experience.

[Daniel Cooper]

In my experience no. They just repeat their checkrides over and over again until they pass.

[‘Bob’]

Not in my experience.

There was one woman I flew with who I can say categorically was the worst pilot ever. She did pass her ride somehow, but not her line indoctrination, and was given the boot.

However I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve had to ground airplanes because of white dudes who used nepotism, the good old boys club, or the ability to pull that alpha male shit and make people believe they knew what they were doing to get to a place they should have never been… and somehow managed to stay there for months or even years before the pin was finally pulled.

Shit like drinking on the job, harassing co-workers, other pilots refusing to fly with them, abysmal knowledge of SOPs/regs, and even lacking basic decision making skills and hand flying skills.

And not low time guys. Bush guys. Airline guys. Interestingly NOT ever.. military guys.

And all of the anti-authority, projection, rationalization, resignation that sticks out like a sore thumb if you ever held an instructor rating to go with it.

No I’ll fly with women any time. They will be a bit timid at the controls at first, 100% knowledgeable because they studied their ass off (none of this drinking bender before a sim session BS), super teachable with none of that needing to prove what they know (like a captain I used to fly with who had to go around on a 12,000 foot runway after trying to prove how fast he could fly an approach) when they know nothing.

[Daniel Cooper]

Exactly. They'll follow SOPs to a T which makes them the perfect modern airline pilot. I think people have less of a hard time with female DEI and more of a problem with racial DEI.

[pelmet]

As some may have noticed, I follow accidents quite closely and have for a long time.

It is not unusual when I meet a pilot from a different airline to ask about an accident that happened there as sometimes, you can get inside info that was never publicized(like at the many accidents and incidents at the places where I worked).

So just the other day, I was talking to a guy from the US and it turns out that he worked for a company called Atlantic Coast Airlines. So, I casually mentioned about the J41 crash that happened back in 1994.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ex ... light_6291

The accident was due to total pilot incompetence and I had read the report decades ago but only knew the outside info that most of us were fed prior to most of the rise of the internet.

Turns out that the captain was from a favoured DEI group. It also turns out that he was deemed to be unfit for the left seat when he became eligible for it. The company told him that they suggest that he remain as an F/O for another six months and get more flying experience.

Turns out that this pilot subsequently showed up at the company with his lawyer who accused the company of racism and that they better make him captain or else they would get sued. He went captain and a bunch of people died.

After the accident, the same lawyer showed up representing the widow of the deceased captain to sue them for upgrading the captain when he was not ready to go captain.

Thirty years later and I finally discover the ugly truth.

Funny how I am always right in my opinions. Sad about so much of what I am right about.

[propfeather]

Funny how I am always right in my opinions.

Great quality for a pilot

[pelmet]

Funny how I am always right in my opinions.

Great quality for a pilot

I like throwing that in just to get guys like you going.

Funny how of all the tragic story I told, the only part that was enough to rile you up enough to a response was the separate statement at the end.

Explains so much of the last decade of destruction in this country. Deficient thought process....and Propfeather is obviously the type to have any reader or other person with that deceased captain as your captain instead of me. Think about that.

[newlygrounded]

Funny how I am always right in my opinions.

Great quality for a pilot

I like throwing that in just to get guys like you going.

Funny how of all the tragic story I told, the only part that was enough to rile you up enough to a response was the separate statement at the end.

Explains so much of the last decade of destruction in this country. Deficient thought process....and Propfeather is obviously the type to have any reader or other person with that deceased captain as your captain instead of me. Think about that.

You're literally admitting to shitposting, but at the same time complaining other people aren't here in good faith?

[pelmet]

Great quality for a pilot

I like throwing that in just to get guys like you going.

Funny how of all the tragic story I told, the only part that was enough to rile you up enough to a response was the separate statement at the end.

Explains so much of the last decade of destruction in this country. Deficient thought process....and Propfeather is obviously the type to have any reader or other person with that deceased captain as your captain instead of me. Think about that.

You're literally admitting to shitposting, but at the same time complaining other people aren't here in good faith?

I think that the main body of my post(innocent people died because of the racism industry) and my attempts to expose and end it, more than make up for the minor transgression. Amazing how those willing to protect this awful reality are now on here trying to distract from the story I exposed. Expect more of it. If only we could somehow guarantee that they would be on the crashed flights.

By the way....I am right again(possible shitpost).

[propfeather]

I think that the main body of my post(innocent people died because of the racism industry) and my attempts to expose and end it, more than make up for the minor transgression. Amazing how those willing to protect this awful reality are now on here trying to distract from the story I exposed. Expect more of it. If only we could somehow guarantee that they would be on the crashed flights.

By the way....I am right again(possible shitpost).

So Atlantic Coast Airlines promoted a weak pilot to captain, that crew screwed up and people died. That is obviously horrible.
If ACA promoted him due to his threat of suing them, that is a big problem. Is there any evidence or proof of this beyond a rumour your buddy told you?

I'll reiterate the question I previously asked..

Are airlines currently passing "DEI" candidates through training when they should have failed?
I haven't seen this myself, people of all walks of life get flushed out.
But I could be wrong. If so, that's a massive problem.

For a pilot, merit comes into play every time you do initial or recurrent training.
The merit standard is: previous experience to qualify you for a position, AND the skill to pass the training+ride+line indoc+line check.

My point is, an airline can hire people of whatever sex, colour, whatever group they want, but the candidates still have to have the qualifications to get there (merit). They then have to prove that they meet the standard to do the job (merit).

[pelmet]

My point is, an airline can hire people of whatever sex, colour, whatever group they want, but the candidates still have to have the qualifications to get there (merit). They then have to prove that they meet the standard to do the job (merit).

You forgot one extremely important thing. They should only hire the candidates who are honestly, in an unbiased manner, felt to be the best(I would define that as safest to get the job done). So simple, so morally right. In other words, the merit starts at the point of first contact.

And that is what this thread is about....hiring.

[pelmet]

So Atlantic Coast Airlines promoted a weak pilot to captain, that crew screwed up and people died. That is obviously horrible.
If ACA promoted him due to his threat of suing them, that is a big problem. Is there any evidence or proof of this beyond a rumour your buddy told you?

This is a classic diversion for an avoidable tragedy(diversion of the idea of simply interviewing and hiring based on merit). In the diversion......you are asked for evidence beyond a "rumour your buddy told you". The question is asked because they know that buddy does not walk around with documents and recordings(of which there would be none) 30 years after the fact to show people over dinner, just in case they happen to ask about the accident. Therefore, people like Propfeather can cast doubt.

Obviously, I don't have any documented evidence. But after searching a pilot forum about the DEI accident to an Atlas Air 767 crash, where an incompetent copilot literally dove the aircraft into the ground(after failing over and over at Atlas), I happened to find this statement about the Atlantic Coast crash.

"ACA's only fatal accident.

The word got around about these two pilots (who were "pushed" through training). The original flight attendant decided not to fly with them that day and a reserve was called out.
There is nothing wrong with calling things the way you see them.
Doing otherwise does a disservice to everyone including the subject pilots themselves.
The NTSB really stuck it's head in the sand on the "probable cause" of this fatal accident."

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/atla ... n-104.html

I know....not the actual proof that is unrealistically demanded, so it will be given doubt. By the way, the reason that it is mentioned that both pilots were pushed through training was......guess? Was so well known in the company, that apparently cabin crew were refusing to fly with them.