David Duke gives Blitzer an ass-kickin.

[bmc]

[quote="C-HRIS
Because Israel is one of the only true democratic countries in the middle east. It is in the USA's best interest to support democracy in the middle east and to see that it spreads, seeing how the dictatorship and other regimes in that area are for the most part anti-American/West.

[/quote]

Actually, most of the Gulf states are pro USA. The US Navy Fifth Fleet is headquartered in Bahrain. Qatar has a long standing relationship with the USA. The UAE buy and fly F-16's. All of them have no democracy and a ruled by filthy rich families. The democracy argument doesn't hold.

Syria, Palestine, Iran....sure, they're quiet anti-American. Saudi is a long standing friend. Very very close friend.

The link between the Bush family and Arab money is well know and well documented.

[niss]

Sorry, close but no cigar. These guys with the black hats and big beards were in the conference room with the Iranian President and other attendees. You don't normally shake hands and embrace someone you are protesting against. They were having a regular love fest - as if the Iranians would allow Jewish protestors... . When I find the link I'll post it.

They were there because they believe that the creation of Israel is actually counter to Jewish law and they were there because they believe that the holocaust was used by the zionists to gain support for the creation of Israel. They do not deny it happened. As for them claiming Israel is counter to Jewish law........notice how only a few showed up and there is ~13 million jews world wide?

[swede]

So, Jews run the US.

There is more freedom of speech, religion and of identity in the middle east then in Europe and North America....

Come on, we are talking about the area were you are shot if you're gay, speak against islam or as a woman don't wear a sheet on your head etc......

Wow wish i could live there

I did lived in the Middle East for three years. It was great. Safest place I have ever lived. Had our two daughters with us. Never locked the house, never locked the car. Didn't need to. The girls never needed to cover themselves. The wife drove. Four liquer stores. We lived in Bahrain which is predominantly Shiite. Met several Jewish families that have lived there for generations.

Other Middle Eastern countries are that free and liberal as well: Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Oman, Kuwait. They're interesting places.

Gee, talk about the dichotomy. Your a guy who has lived there, thought it was great and at the top, we have a guy who has been listening to Fox and figures your shot for being gay in Arab countries. Now we see where the rubber hits the road. This is what I have been trying to get across at the outset. Truth is way stranger than fiction. What we get from the msm, especially where it comes to life in the middle east, is fiction mixed with hysteria. My brother spent years in Yemen, he said it was great as well.

[niss]

we have a guy who has been listening to Fox and figures your shot for being gay in Arab countries.

HAHAHA what a moron! Beechy is obviously an idiot, as everyone knows homosexuals are beheaded or hung for their sinful ways, not shot!!!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Modern_law

In modern times
The modern world has brought about a fundamental shift in the acceptance of homosexual behavior. Europe and North America have seen growing acceptance of homosexuality as a result of modern liberalism and the Gay Liberation movement. By contrast, many Middle Eastern and Central Asian countries have gone from tolerance to outright hostility. The only nation in the region with significantly different policies is Israel.

Attitudes in Europe and North America vary, with some countries—like the United Kingdom and the Netherlands—accepting openly homosexual individuals into the armed forces, and others—like the United States and many nations in South America and the Caribbean—either quieting or discharging homosexuals. The United States is known for its “Don't ask, don't tell” policy, which is seen as a compromise between acceptance and the tactics of marginalization and humiliation that had been used before.

Most nations that adhere to the strict interpretation of Sharia (Islamic law) remove individuals from their armed forces who are believed to be homosexual, and may punish, torture, or subject them to the death penalty.

International anger grows over gay executions
Ben Townley, GAY.COM
Monday 25 July, 2005 12:38 | More from this date | Today's headlines





International human rights organisations are calling for more action to be taken against Iran, after it publicly executed two gay teenagers last week.

The country executed the two boys, who were only identified by their initials, for having sex with each other. Homosexuality is illegal under the harsh Sharia law, which allows execution of children as young as nine.

The pair were also charged with raping a 13-year-old boy, although the majority of news services say this charge has been trumped up by the Iranian state in a bid to avoid international criticism.

Campaigners believe the boys were likely to have given a “confession” after weeks of torture. They were detained and subjected to beatings by local police for up to two weeks before their death.

Now, international groups are calling for stronger action to be taken against Iran. In the UK, Peter Tatchell and Outrage have criticised the Labour government for moving towards closer ties with the government.

"Britain’s Labour government is pursuing friendly relations with this murderous regime, including aid and trade,” Tatchell said.

“We urge the international community to treat Iran as a pariah state, break off diplomatic relations, impose trade sanctions and give practical support to the democratic and left opposition inside Iran.”

He also said the country had become a “prison”, with the ultra-conservative state blocking any movement towards a more liberal, democratic society.

Smaller regional activists are now urging local people to contact the Iranian embassy and “register your disgust” at the executions.

“The images we have received are heartbreaking and have caused shockwaves in the gay community,” a gay group based in Derry, Northern Ireland said in a press release today.

“Whilst we are powerless here to directly affect what happens in Iran the least we can do is raise our voice against this unbelievable cruelty.”

“We urge people not to be complicit in this through silence,” the group added.

Elsewhere, campaigners are calling for their government’s to publicly criticise the Iranian sanctioned executions.

In Sweden, the Swedish Federation for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights (RFSL) has called on the government to update its asylum policy, so that lesbian and gay people are not deported back to Iran.

“I think the Swedish government is extremely cynical when it sends gays and lesbians back to Iran," Sören Andersson told the AFP news agency.

"They keep looking for excuses to send them back there, but it is dangerous for homosexuals in Iran," he added.

In the US, campaigners are calling for Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice to denounce the executions.

In a letter to Rice, activists say the killings are “barbarous”.

“As we have seen in recent weeks, the barbarous punishments for sexual acts in these countries run contrary to the letter and the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,” the letter says.

“For that reason, these acts must be condemned.”

However, Iran is standing firm on its decision to kill the two young men.

Members of Iran's parliament hailing from the northeastern city of Mashad complained last week about news coverage of the deaths.

"Instead of paying tribute to the action of the judiciary, the media are mentioning the age of the hanged criminals and creating a commotion that harms the interests of the state," said ultraconservative deputy Ali Asgari in a quote published by Iran Focus.

"Even if certain Web sites made a reference to their age, journalists should not pursue this. These individuals were corrupt. Their sentence was carried out with the approval of the judiciary, and it served them right," he said.

[Driving Rain]

Sid RyanFri, December 15, 2006

You'll get an earful if you oppose Israel

By SID RYAN




I think I know what the messages on Jimmy Carter's voice mail sound like.

Last month, the former U.S. president released his book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid. And I bet he's getting an earful.

Last spring, 900 delegates to the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) Ontario convention overwhelmingly passed a resolution expressing support for the global campaign against Israeli apartheid.

At the time, Resolution 50 was met by fierce and vitriolic opposition from the usual suspects over at the National Post and from within Jewish organizations such as B'nai Brith and the Canadian Jewish Congress. Both of these organizations ran campaigns and petitions against me and my union.

I was attacked personally in some quarters as being a Nazi sympathizer and anti-Semite. At least one website was calling for my death and even went so far as to describe how this murder should be carried out by "hanging Ryan from a lamp post." One sick individual posted to the website he was searching through the Canadian Tire catalogue looking for the apparatus by which I should be hanged.

In addition, my office staff were bombarded with more death threats and comments so vile and threatening they could not be printed in a daily newspaper.

Resolution 50 supported an international boycott and divestment campaign against Israel because of its apartheid policies towards the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. CUPE Ontario punctured the cone of silence that had descended on the U.S. and Canadian reporting of the atrocities in Palestine -- and it clearly touched a nerve.

To this day, one of the main obstacles to peace in the Middle East remains the continuing 39-year subjugation of the Palestinian people by the State of Israel.

When Israel was founded by the UN in 1948, it was granted 56% of the territory the world refers to as the Holy Land. Following wars between Israel and its Arab neighbours and the resulting treaties, Israel wound up with 77% of the land and Palestinians with 23%, divided between the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza.

Over the past 39 years, Israel has occupied the lands of the Palestinians and allowed settlers from Israel and around the world to set up Jewish enclaves there. So far, 205 such settlements exist in the West Bank and a honeycomb of roads and highways connect these Jewish-only communities to each other. Palestinians are prohibited from using the highways, forced onto winding and dangerous roads with hundreds of military checkpoints.

Despite the brouhaha from the Israeli lobby, the boycott and anti-apartheid campaign are picking up steam at home and around the world with such noteworthy supporters as Jimmy Carter.

In his book, the Nobel Prize winner castigates Israel for its policies towards Palestinians.

In a recent interview with Democracy Now, a radio and TV station in the U.S., Carter said, "some Israelis believe they have the right to confiscate and colonize Palestinian land and try to justify the sustained subjugation of increasingly hopeless and aggravated Palestinians."

Former U.S. president Carter is just the latest world figure to openly challenge the policies of Israel in Gaza and the West Bank. He joins Rev. Desmond Tutu, another Nobel Prize winner. Each time a trade union or church group or world leader steps forward to break the cone of silence around this issue, the more difficult it becomes for the lobby groups to spew their propaganda.
I'm sure by now that president Carter's e-mails, voice mail and phone calls are filled with sick and vile allegations of Nazi, anti-Semite and Jew-hater. The truth, however, is that the more people speak out against the atrocities in Palestine, the more ridiculous the occupiers and their supporters sound.

[niss]

Funny thing is that no one realises or is willing to admit that the land was won during a war with egypt and jordan, the latter countries are the ones who actually stole the land from the palestinians. Funny how much people choose to remember.

[Driving Rain]

Funny thing is that no one realises or is willing to admit that the land was won during a war with egypt and jordan, the latter countries are the ones who actually stole the land from the palestinians. Funny how much people choose to remember.

Yes and we too have no room to talk because our white ancestors stole this country from the 1st Nations.

[niss]

Your White ancestors.

[PARADISE]

niss you poor dumb bastard. Your mind is closed, you already have all the answers that you'll every want for the Middle East and Isreal. No objectivity possible. To be fair you don't even know it, you have probable grown up with this mess (isreal) all your life. Others have not, and come to the table with an open mind looking for all the information available from all the sources with which to make their own decisions.

You have your agenda, and your reactionary strike first strike hard posts are one of the many points of view that go into my thoughts on the middle east. Your thoughts; highly emotional and totally unaccepting of decent by anyone anywhere, anytime are defended with assine insults and jaded.

Quit being such a free speech hater. People want to hear all there is and make up their own mind about the middle east and the rest of the world/life too.


Some people still have open minds and make there own informed decisions, not many but a few. You have a right to your views and so does everyone else. For those of us wanting all the information in order to understand these things, you being a zealot running around pointing fingers and spouting hate at anyone who asks a question, you make it hard.



BTW anyone who denies the horror of the holocaust is a crazy, however they should not be locked away for it.

[bmc]

Gee, talk about the dichotomy. Your a guy who has lived there, thought it was great and at the top, we have a guy who has been listening to Fox and figures your shot for being gay in Arab countries. Now we see where the rubber hits the road. This is what I have been trying to get across at the outset. Truth is way stranger than fiction. What we get from the msm, especially where it comes to life in the middle east, is fiction mixed with hysteria. My brother spent years in Yemen, he said it was great as well.

I just got back from Jordan on Wednesday night. I was down there for a about 30 hours. I didn't get blowed up at all. Imagine that.

I love the Middle East. I was in Beirut in April. I expect to be back again in January. Beirut is an awesome place. The best of Europe meets the best of the Arab world. Great food. Great nightlife. Gorgeous women.

There are many Canadians that live and work in the Middle East. Not just locals who got Canadian passports. I mean people from all over Canada that have been there for years. It's a great life if you don't mind swimming pools, zero crime, zero tolerance for crime, palm trees and not paying Canadian taxes.

Yemen is great. A little crazy though. But the fun places on earth are a little crazy, right?

[bob sacamano]

To set the record straight, Lebanon was the first democracy in the Middle East. When Lebanon had its democratic system, israel didn't even exist.

And niss said because of democracy israel and the us are friends? haha, right. If you can show me where you got your statement from, that would be good. Cos talking shit that you've heard isn't cool.

Howbout us and saudi, pakistan, iraq back in the day, etc. It has nothing to do about democracy. The us are the last to preach about democracy.

It's about interestes. Usually that means money.

[bmc]

It has nothing to do about democracy. The us are the last to preach about democracy.

It's about interestes. Usually that means money.

I fully agree with those statements. This has as much to do with freedom and democracy as the reason for 9/11 was because people hated freedom.

The Middle East is resource rich and the US is a rather large consumer of that resource. It's in their best interest to keep the peace and protect their interests.

[bob sacamano]

I love the Middle East. I was in Beirut in April. I expect to be back again in January. Beirut is an awesome place. The best of Europe meets the best of the Arab world. Great food. Great nightlife. Gorgeous women.

You're a lucky dude if you made it in and out of Beirut without those khizbolla terrorists killing you.

What i would do for a Lebanese mezza now...mmmmm.

[bmc]

I love the Middle East. I was in Beirut in April. I expect to be back again in January. Beirut is an awesome place. The best of Europe meets the best of the Arab world. Great food. Great nightlife. Gorgeous women.

You're a lucky dude if you made it in and out of Beirut without those khizbolla terrorists killing you.

What i would do for a Lebanese mezza now...mmmmm.

Suffer bitch....I had mezza Tuesday. A huge spah of humous, that I made a nice crater in the middle to hold the olive oil. It was great. I held the meeting in Amman because of the uncertainty in Beirut. We were originally scheduled for Beirut. The Arab Air Carriers Organization want me to come down to Beirut in January. I hope things will have settled down a bit, but I doubt it. Maybe we'll go to Damash instead.

MA' asalamah habibi

I fvckin love the Levant. I gotta get into Israel next.

You know guys, the Middle East is, undeniably a hot news area. But not all of it. There are lots of stable places and these places are very comfortable with westerners. Very interesting history, people, culture. Lots of Canadian's flying the Gulf region with Gulf Air, Kuwait, Emirates. If youare ever considering a flying job in the region, I strongly encourage you to consider it.


Sorry for the topic drift....I just wanted to make Sacamano'smouth water.

[bob sacamano]

I am jealous.

But, I did make some hummos last night, and mmmmmmgood they were.

alla ma'o

[Dex]

Funny thing is that no one realises or is willing to admit that the land was won during a war with egypt and jordan, the latter countries are the ones who actually stole the land from the palestinians. Funny how much people choose to remember.

The fact that the territories were occupied by other countries before Israel's occupation and illegal settlement activity is irrelevant. As a matter of fact I am quite positive that if the natives of the occupied territories were to have a choice of occupiers Israel would be the last on their list.

[niss]

Others have not, and come to the table with an open mind looking for all the information available from all the sources with which to make their own decisions.

You mean like your open mind?

Niss you Jews really are great at killing people. What a good neighbor Isreal makes.

Quit being such a free speech hater. People want to hear all there is and make up their own mind about the middle east and the rest of the world/life too.

Funny how many threads I have put up have resulted with a personal and unprovoked insult/attack from you. Where is your free speech policy there?

And niss said because of democracy israel and the us are friends? haha, right. If you can show me where you got your statement from, that would be good. Cos talking shit that you've heard isn't cool.

Bob, that was one of the possible reasons I offered. Reread my post about US friends and allies in the ME.

The fact that the territories were occupied by other countries before Israel's occupation and illegal settlement activity is irrelevant.

Actually I find it quite relevent. The current Palestinians are only "Palestinians" when it suits them. There was no struggle prior to Israel and Israel isnt even the reason they are in refugee camps. There was no terror etc.

Israel never snuck up and stole their land. They won the land in a war against two countries that originally stole the land. Israel bettered the west bank and gaza by building infrastructure etc.

I do not agree with the occupation or the settlements but come on, people have to start seeing the forest for the trees. This isnt about the territories.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)
18 August 1988

In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah

"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
"The Islamic world is on fire. Each of us should pour some water, no matter how little, to extinguish whatever one can without waiting for the others." (Sheikh Amjad al-Zahawi, of blessed memory).
In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah

Hamas was established in the 80s well after the occupation and its charter isnt even to free the territories, it is for the complete anhialation of Israel and Jews everywhere. This is also the organization voted by the people to lead them. Hamas has not softened its views and has vowed to keep its mission of terror. Even after the occupation is over it will not stop.

[PARADISE]

Niss- Yes, open minded people like me.
You post garbage then you own up to it.

[bmc]

Discussing Middle Eastern politics on avcanada is as successful as discussions at the country and regional level.

1. I'm right.

2. No, I'm right.

1. No, I'm right and you're wrong.

2. Oh yeah...You hate Jews.

1. Bastard....you hate Arabs.

3. Let's blow up them fuckers


Nothing ever changes. Complex problem to solve, isn't it?

Easiest thing to do is change the TV channel from the news to South Park.




[/i]

[Chantal]

http://torsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/ ... 4-sun.html

December 16, 2006

Canadian hypocrisy
By MICHAEL COREN, TORONTO SUN FREELANCE

TORONTO -- I would not have invited the late General Augusto Pinochet to tea. I'm not a fan of sharing cookies with a man who wore ostentatious uniforms and led a regime that murdered almost 4,000 people.

The problem is that while the Chilean dictator who died last week certainly had blood on his hands, it was a sprinkling compared to the pool of gore in which so many leftist rulers have bathed.

And here is the hypocrisy. The Marxist who preceded Pinochet was a good buddy of Fidel Castro's and even killed himself with a gun given as a gift by the Cuban thug. Fidel is lionized by many in Canada but has operated a web of concentration camps for decades.

Just last week a group protesting for basic human rights was beaten up and arrested in Cuba, joining political dissidents, Christians, homosexuals and all sorts of other threats to the Havana regime in prisons and torture cells.

Pinochet's defence was that he saved his country from Marxism and that the anarchy and slaughter that would have ensued if the Communists had taken power would have been far worse than anything the military could have created.

As bad as he was, he may have had a point. The left have always been the masters of social engineering and mass murder, but unlike the right, they get away with it.

Stalin murdered and incarcerated far more people than did Hitler. Obviously Stalin was around for a longer time than Adolf but even between 1933 and 1945, when Hitler was in power, the Soviet regime was more successful than its German rival in wrapping an entire continent in agony and suffering.

Which means that we should treat Communists and Nazis with equal loathing. But we don't. There are hardly any movies and few books about the forced starvation of the Ukrainians, the rape of Poland, the 40 million killed by Marxist commissars.

The same applies to Chairman Mao and his dance of death among legions of his own people. Morally and intellectually vacuous youths still walk around wearing T-shirts emblazoned with his face, and with pictures of Lenin and Che Guevara. The former began the Gulags and the latter was a dental student who became physically aroused when he saw people murdered.

Which leads to the latest left-wing hypocrisy with a Canadian flavour. A Holocaust denial conference took place in Iran last week, in which various anti-Semites such as former Klan leader David Duke gathered to pretend that history isn't history.

One of the delegates was Shiraz Dossa, a professor from St. Francis Xavier University in Nova Scotia - a man who is paid public dollars to teach truth and exemplify wisdom.

He may not deny the Holocaust himself but the conference was devoted only to that issue. One Palestinian from Nazareth, for example, was denied entry because he argued that of course the Holocaust was true.

This is not an issue of freedom of speech. It is about denial of fact. Like a conference claiming France isn't France or the moon is made of cheese. Thus anyone attending has neither the credentials nor the credibility to teach young Canadians.

If a conservative had attended the hate-fest, we know what would have happened. In the name of equality, justice and good old Canadian fairness I await news of Prof. Dossa's dismissal. We shall see.

[/quote]

[Driving Rain]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... 0599119419

Ex-soldiers break `silence' on Israeli excesses
Yehuda Shaul tells Haroon Siddiqui `something rotten' is going on in Gaza

and the West Bank
Dec. 17, 2006. 01:00 AM
HAROON SIDDIQUI



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A young Israeli was in Canada last week raising ethical questions about the conduct of Israeli soldiers in the Occupied Territories.

Yehuda Shaul was born in Jerusalem to an American mother and Canadian father (from Toronto). Shaul went to school in a West Bank settlement and served in the army from 2001 to 2004. He did a 14-month stint in Hebron, guarding about 650 settlers living among approximately 150,000 Palestinians.

He is one of the founders of Break the Silence, a group of ex-soldiers speaking out about what they saw and did during their tour of duty in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

At 6-foot 1-inch, the heavy-set Shaul cuts an imposing but engaging figure with his beard, ponytail and the kippa. He smiles easily.

He had a lot to say during a vegetarian kosher lunch we shared in my office with his Toronto host, Judith Wiseman.

He came here after a tour of six American cities. In Toronto, he spoke at the Winchevsky Centre of the United Jewish People's Order and at the Quaker House. Then he was off to London, Ottawa and Montreal.

He recounted the moment when, three months before being released from the army, he was alone and wondering what he would do upon returning to civilian life.

It struck him, he said, that he had become "a monster," doing things that were not right. "It was a frightening moment."

He spoke to fellow soldiers. "They were feeling the same: `Something's rotten here.' Israelis don't know what goes on here, and we must tell them.'"

Within three months of being discharged in March 2004, Shaul and friends mounted an exhibit, Bringing Hebron to Tel Aviv. It had powerful photos and video testimony by 64 soldiers showing and describing the treatment meted out to Palestinians by the troops as well as some of the settlers.

There were pictures of Palestinians bound and blindfolded. There was a photo of a settler carrying an assault rifle with a decal on the magazine clip: "Kill 'em all, Let God sort 'em out." Another was of graffiti on a wall: "Arabs to the gas chamber."

The exhibit drew 7,000 visitors and much media coverage.

Other soldiers who had served in the West Bank and Gaza came forward. More photos were gathered, as well as about 400 audio and video testimonies.

In them, soldiers talk about the total power of the occupiers over the occupied — throwing Palestinians out of their homes; making them stand for hours for disobeying the curfew or trying to bypass a checkpoint or even smiling or arguing at the wrong time, Shaul said.

"We can play with them. This is the mindset from which everything flows."

In Hebron, Shaul manned a machine gun. "It can shoot dozens of grenades a minute up to a distance of about 2,000 metres. We'd shoot 40 or 50 a day ...

"We had three high posts, two where we had kicked the Palestinian families out of and the third was a Palestinian school which we had closed down.

"The idea was that anytime they shoot, we shoot back.

"But the machine gun is not an accurate weapon. You just shoot in the direction of the target ... We have no idea how many we killed. I hope no one."

Shaul said some acts "flow from being afraid or being bored. You are there eight hours a night at the post. You just aim and shoot the water tank."

Or, "when you drive your tank or your APC (armoured personnel carrier), you bump into a streetlight. As you turn a corner, you bump into a wall. It's fun ... It's all about you. Nothing else matters ... Palestinians are no longer human."

Initially, Break the Silence members did not speak to foreigners, to avoid "airing our dirty laundry." But they have since changed their policy.

Two members toured the United States last year. Two exhibitions have been held in Geneva and Amsterdam.

The group (http://www.shovrimshtika.org and http://www.breakthesilence.org.il) exists to break two kinds of silences: "First, the soldiers keep quiet and, then Israeli society keeps quiet.

"We provide the tools for people to understand the deeply woven moral corruption and numbness of what we do (in the Occupied Territories). It's like a slide; once you start going down, you keep going down.

"There's no such thing as a benign or an enlightened occupation. You can't be an occupier and not be an occupier."

Shaul's overall message:

"The issue is not the right of Israel to exist but rather, does it have the right to occupy Palestinian lands and control civilians as it has for 40 years?"

Shaul said he has been well-received in North America, even though some did criticize him.

But, "you can't really criticize me because I am an Israeli who has served in the army."

He's much more: a courageous citizen of Israeli democracy.

[bob sacamano]

Thanks for the reading.

Ofcourse, niss will come out and dispute this testimony, all coming from his first hand real life experience from the front lines.

Afterall, he does wear his israeli air force pants and has an israeli air force logo. He must know what he's talking about.

[niss]

Afterall, he does wear his israeli air force pants and has an israeli air force logo. He must know what he's talking about.

Wow, talk about ignorant, those are CDN pants.

Actually I think its a shame that people are like that and have such disregard for human beings. I have not ever defended the occupation. I think it should be over, (with certain limitations) however, I couldnt see anywhere that shows this was policy or SOP. Every bushel has its bad apples.

The idea was that anytime they shoot, we shoot back.

I dont see a problem with that, however

Or, "when you drive your tank or your APC (armoured personnel carrier), you bump into a streetlight. As you turn a corner, you bump into a wall. It's fun ... It's all about you. Nothing else matters ... Palestinians are no longer human."

I dont agree with that. They are human beings, and not all of them deserve the shit they eat.

making them stand for hours for disobeying the curfew or trying to bypass a checkpoint......

Whats wrong with that? With many soldiers killed because of terrorists jumping past checkpoints or coming out after curfiew I do not see any problem with that.

..... or even smiling or arguing at the wrong time

That I have a problem with.

[bob sacamano]

Afterall, he does wear his israeli air force pants and has an israeli air force logo. He must know what he's talking about.

Wow, talk about ignorant, those are CDN pants.

Actually I think its a shame that people are like that and have such disregard for human beings. I have not ever defended the occupation. I think it should be over, (with certain limitations) however, I couldnt see anywhere that shows this was policy or SOP. Every bushel has its bad apples.

The idea was that anytime they shoot, we shoot back.

I dont see a problem with that, however

Or, "when you drive your tank or your APC (armoured personnel carrier), you bump into a streetlight. As you turn a corner, you bump into a wall. It's fun ... It's all about you. Nothing else matters ... Palestinians are no longer human."

I dont agree with that. They are human beings, and not all of them deserve the shit they eat.

making them stand for hours for disobeying the curfew or trying to bypass a checkpoint......

Whats wrong with that? With many soldiers killed because of terrorists jumping past checkpoints or coming out after curfiew I do not see any problem with that.

..... or even smiling or arguing at the wrong time

That I have a problem with.

I don't think too many people care what you think niss.

From the sounds of it, you are very passionate about israel.

Why not go and serve your 3 years? Then maybe you'll get issued some real force pants. Heck, you'll get the whole suit, with that funky ass hat.

She may be your officer, heck, for that I'd go there and serve.





p.p.s. excuse my ignorance, i can't tell the difference between the israeli and the canadian army pants.

But I do like these canadian air force pants, you shoulda got them. The low waste, you know, the hip huggers, or en francais, taille basse, or as you may refer to it in hebrew, khram הוגר. They would show off your hot physique.

[niss]

She may be your officer, heck, for that I'd go there and serve.

Only if I joined the police, but then again you knew that, didnt you you ever fucking know it all.

I don't think too many people care what you think niss.

Bob, I dont give 2 shekels what anyone thinks, least of all you. So go ahead and sit all high and mighty and feel good about your self, or dont, spin in a spiral of depression and slit your wrists, you're just an avatar on a forum buddy, you dont mean @#$!.