Combined list.....?

PeteThePilot · Post by **PeteThePilot** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:12 am

FFS thrust set, you are not having 4% of Jazz placed ahead of their co-workers, you are having 4% of Jazz that applied, interviewed, danced, and passed there way in to mainline. They applied and were rewarded, they are now or should be mainline employees in the near future. You guys are deaf I swear - if you, the global you, wanted mainline you should have pursued it therefore if you didn't you deal with the result.

Skidoo, as for the rest, I feel an uprising coming on.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:34 am

I would have to agree that anyone who has been processed and given a sen number at mainline should be given that seniority. The transition for the rest can be handled in many other ways but once assigned a number, that number is pretty much written in stone and something ACPA feels very strong about. Let's wait and see but I can tell you I would feel pretty confident if you already have a number. No merger is perfect. The mainline has some experience with that. Not everyone will be happy.

thrust set · Post by **thrust set** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:56 am

Pete,

Lets agree that we both disagree on the finer points of LOU18. I have been with AC long enough to see some things just don't always work out.

I kind of agree now with Tony, those that have numbers will hopefully make a quick transition over here. I feel the rest, the ones that have completed the interview process and still waiting for their results will be causalities of this new chapter.

socrates · Post by **socrates** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:57 pm

thrust set wrote:"If you wanted to "reap the benefits" as you say - you should have pursued mainline."

Actually I made the move years ago, lived through Michnick and Keller and want to enjoy the next phase of my career. I don't want to come off "preaching" but sometimes you have to look outside the box before one can really see what is fair and what is not. If this is not handled correctly it will lead to a headache in the future.

Remember if this does go ahead for the betterment of our profession as Air Canada pilots we will have a combined pilot group of 4450 strong. But we will also have about 4% of the Jazz list near the bottom third be placed ahead of all their co-workers. Then everyone smiles, shakes their hands..... life is great correct ?

Well unfortunately as some here at Air Canada found out during the merger things don't always play out the way they want them. What about this have a third party make a recommendation?

Good luck to all.

Thrust set you have to remeber that there will still be 2 lists.

Jazz aircraft list with mainline bellow and Air Canada aircraft List with Jazz bellow.

Jazz pilots that elect to flow through to mainline will be bellow those "4% you speak of" however if they stay at Jazz there positions will not be affected.

This is my understanding please correct me if I'm wrong.

pauliewalnuts · Post by **pauliewalnuts** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:05 pm

Then there are those of us that have completed the interview and all of the testing and have received the phone call and have been offered the job and hired but are waiting for a "virtual" course date. Just trying to figure out where we would fit into the whole senario if this merger were to happen.

Localizer · Post by **Localizer** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:18 pm

I think you're all idiots for continuing to argue about nothing ... there is no information out there about GS, just rumours ... So get a life and wait till there is something to debate.

Oh and you new AC guys .... get your head out of your ass. Enough with the "if you wanted AC you should have applied" crap. Every pilot in Canada for the most part has applied .. you just got lucky .. sorry to pop the ego .. but someone needed to tell you the truth. Again ... get a life.

Loc

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:58 pm

What will happen to the Jazz pilots that interviewed at mainline during the current hiring phase but were not selected (for whatever reason)?

Why bother to have interviewed any of the Jazz pilots? In a merged list scenario the effect is a straight flow through with no selection whatsoever.

Fair would seem to put any Jazz pilots who were actually selected a) in their current, reserved position, or at the very least b) at the top of the rest of the Jazz crowd who had either not applied or not been selected.

On another point, I fundamentally disagree that a position at mainline has to be made "attractive" to any Jazz pilot, senior or junior. In a merged list, one would obviously be able to remain in their current position and maintain the status quo with respect to working conditions. For the Jazz pilot, there is only upside no matter how you slice it. Witness the fact that currently for one so inclined at mainline an upgrade to left seat of the 76/93-seat EMJ is available within 2 years. For upgrade to the left seat of the 50/75-seat RJ at Jazz is by most accounts a bare minimum of 8-10 yrs away.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:17 pm

We must keep in mind the entire purpose of this exercise is to protect against the prospect of ever-escalating aircraft size battles between the two groups.

Given that this is largely a precedent-based industry on consumer, labour, and regulatory fronts inclusive I think that without GS, the EMJ will end up at Jazz. Its already at the regionals in the states, so the precedent is set. Next round of negotiations 10 yrs from now the narrowbody fleet (A320) will be in the crosshairs. A united group is the only way to prevent this from occurring.

spaz · Post by **spaz** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:42 pm

So how far along is the process? Talks have happened, now meetings with management, what are the steps in the process? Will there be an infomation stage where the memberships can comment on what is proposed? If ratified, will it be retroactive to a certain date, or effective at a future date? Will it be a 'take it or leave it - as is' deal. How long until a vote? Why can't the memberships be trusted with details of what's going on?

Secrecy = Hidden Agenda

PeteThePilot · Post by **PeteThePilot** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:47 am

Localizer wrote:I think you're all idiots for continuing to argue about nothing ... there is no information out there about GS, just rumours ... So get a life and wait till there is something to debate.

Oh and you new AC guys .... get your head out of your ass. Enough with the "if you wanted AC you should have applied" crap. Every pilot in Canada for the most part has applied .. you just got lucky .. sorry to pop the ego .. but someone needed to tell you the truth. Again ... get a life.

Loc

Maybe if you read the whole thread you would know what we were talking about.

PeteThePilot · Post by **PeteThePilot** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:58 am

Well ALPA just sent out emails for their next meeting - March 21st at 1830 in the Holiday Inn. If you want to be heard about this issue or others that might be a good place to start. GS is on the agenda so it might be a good time to get some clarification and/or some answers.

yycguy · Post by **yycguy** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:30 am

Keep in mind the term is "GLOBAL" Solutions, not "Individual Solutions to make every single pilot happy as a pig in sh!t."

If I miss out on my chance to jump ahead on the merged seniority list, but the end result is that in 10 years from now my working conditions are going to be better and my pay is going to be stronger, than so be it.

Too many people are losing sight of the overall goal that our unions are trying to achieve. It's not just about a merged list, it's about negotiating together and overcoming the divide and conquer strategy that has worked so well for management over the years.

GS has been tried many times before and failed, it's precarious, and that's why discussions are closed doored.

I say good luck, and thankyou to those trying to make it happen.

untucked · Post by **untucked** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:43 pm

Darn tootin'