why are people still learning how to fly? (for a living)

[npg]

instead of arguing aboot shit all day

[complexintentions]

WOW! Your avatar and your comments speak volumes about you! I bet you like to have those volumes read aloud to you as well.

Sorry, theres another "KICK"

Hey there wingnut! I'm sure you have some sort of point buried in there! lol

MINE was...I kicked back...and won. Flying airplanes isn't an epic feat...but sticking with an aviation career - can be.

It paid off, baby. Whine all you want, debate all you want...pure entertainment!

[mbav8r]

OK, you win. I have been hiding behind the facade of being superhuman and now I feel exposed. I'm gonna have to listen to my self help tapes again, hope you're happy

I am great, everyone loves me......starting to feel better already. maybe switch professions, I've always wanted to be a Rock Star

[TITAN]

What I still don't understand is why someone like CAT who has obviously devoted his whole life into flying , can down talk it in such a way !! . I mean why did you stick around for!! I know plenty of guy's who have flown for 40 + years and still find it fun to fly and would never compare flying an aircraft to building a cabinet ....

[Cat Driver]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I still don't understand is why someone like CAT who has obviously devoted his whole life into flying , can down talk it in such a way !! . I mean why did you stick around for!! I know plenty of guy's who have flown for 40 + years and still find it fun to fly and would never compare flying an aircraft to building a cabinet ....

Titan, if you read what I try and point out you will find that I never say that I do not like flying.

What I am trying to explain is the simple fact that flying airplanes is far to often driven by emotion and the desire to fly at all cost.

Where else would you find an occupation where legions of young dreamers are willing to line up to pay a huge amount of money to learn to drive a vehicle and once licensed will stop at nothing to get behind the wheel of the vehicle they have the license to drive...not to mention that far to many will " give " an employer many thousands of dollars to further buy their way into the drivers seat....and once there many will stab every other pilot in the back to keep their job or get to drive a bigger vehicle.

All I am pointing out is being a pilot is just another medium skills/knowlege occupation, where it differs from most other occupations is in the attitudes shown by far to many pilots.

And I still enjoy flying and will continue to do the odd contract that suits my fancy and pays enough......

......One more thing, I never had to pay for any training with any company nor ever payed for a job nor did I ever work for free.

[trey kule]

As to flying and building cabinets. different strokes for different folks.
Some people find pleasure in flying. Some in building cabinets. It is an apple to oranges thing for the most part.

From what I have seen, in hiring pilots, age is as big an indicator as anything. Unfortunately, a lot of very young pilots love flying but have never really worked. When they hit their first job they find out that you can still love flying but it is a job. Pilots who got into flying with some life experience, and experience in the real world tend to understand things like punctuality, dependability, taking care of the equipment. They are less about demanding guidance and traing and career boosts, and more about getting the job done safely and efficeintly. Not true in every case, but my experience is that it is generally true.
So most people getting into flying do it because they are hooked on it.

And it will be 41 years this year for me. I still like to jump in a little plane with someone for the three hundred dollar hamburger. And I think Cat is just trying to bring some of the egoly-inflated back down to earth.

[Cat Driver]

And I think Cat is just trying to bring some of the egoly-inflated back down to earth.

No that was mbav8r doing that, he thinks I have an inflated ego.....

.......thanks to his concern for me I can now go to work on being more humble and not try and relate to reality.

[trey kule]

No Cat, it is his ego that is causing him to attack you. I wouldnt trade my job for any other. But I am certain there are all sorts of folks out there that drvie truck, build cabinets and practice law or medicine who wouldnt trade their job either. It is sad that some are so wrapped up in themselves that they cannot fathom others skills or things that make them others happy. to put it bluntly, not everyone wants to be a pilot. And that just makes them different, not inferior, not superior. Just different. flying is not getting harder.

As Cat pointed out, from some of the posters, it seems the bar is set a little low in some cases.

[mbav8r]

Cat wrote:

Quote:
And I think Cat is just trying to bring some of the egoly-inflated back down to earth.


No that was mbav8r doing that, he thinks I have an inflated ego.....

.......thanks to his concern for me I can now go to work on being more humble and not try and relate to reality.

You definately missed the point, I believe I said you had low self worth.
I'm not sure what part of that made you think that I thought you had an ego. I don't feel superior to anyone or profession, I do however have pride for what I do, and don't appreciate anybody slaming it, to the point of saying anyone with medium skills can do it.
In other countries, pilot is a proud profession and considered in the same league as doctors and lawyers, but here we are mearly medium skilled labourers driving a bus in the sky.
Can you imagine the size of the egos for pilots in Greece, there, they are considered above all professions and god like because they are able to take to the sky. Before it's said, I'm not moving to greece, just pointing out that other people consider it a proud and rewarding profession.

Now any bus drivers out there feel free to attack my ego, but I will mention I have a class 1 and have drivin truck. I have never met a truck driver that would take kindly to anyone saying a monkey could do their job either.

[Cat Driver]

Get over it mbav8r, you haven't got a clue what kind of self worth I have.

As far as having achieved goals as a pilot I don't need you to spout off about my lack of self worth for the simple reason I have achieved a hell of a lot higher status as a pilot than you can even imagine.

I have no problem discussing flying and what it involves, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let some anonymous poster make personal slurs against me without any supporting reason.

So have at it hero, what makes you think I have low self worth?

I'm betting I've forgotten more about how to fly than you know, and I still say that being a pilot is a mediunm skills/ knowlege occupation.

So shove your comment that I have low self worth where the sun don't shine.

[Special K]

You guys sound like my Dad!
I could compliment him(and it sounds like some of you) and he would take it as an insult!

Lets try to put a positive spin on this topic. The apples and oranges anology is a good one in this case. I bet there are more cabinet maker jobs available in Canada then there are flying jobs. When we have less pilots for pilot jobs in Canada we won't be complaining about wages for a while.........at least until the next down turn in the economy.

Ego shmego!
We all take pride in our work and sometimes, after a while, we get bored with our job................blah blah blah..........

Why would you want to be compard with lawyers and doctors?

Lawyers don't care about the truth and doctors seem as reliable as canadian tire mechanics.

I guess if you equate salary with respectability there are many more 'respectable' jobs in our country. There are tons of jobs in fort Mac that are more 'respectable'.

Are pilots really godz in Greece? That is too funny. Do you really need the confirmation of others to make you feel satisfied with your vocation? That is sad.

Just remember-Your good enough, smart enough, and doggonit, people like you.

Some of you guys should go out and get some exercise. Maybe you'll focus on trying to better the aviation community with your posts rather then(or is it than?) spewing negativity after those endorphins make you feel all warm and fuzzy.


CYA
K


P.S. Seasonal employement kicks ass bitches!

[ragbagflyer]

I myself can't believe some of the crap that's being spewed out in here, to say that flying is a medium skills job and we're just glorified bus drivers. The people with that opinion of flying should have never had their licence to begin with. Why not say a monkey could do it!

I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here.

I think because if you really think about it, a big percentage of the population could be competent pilots (but not nearly as competent as me!) That's a bit of a generalization, but think about it. How many people try and fail in aviation because of incompetence? Even if that number was 50 percent (which it's not), then big deal, you're in the top half. Nothing exceptional about that. How many pilots screw up enough to hurt themselves or the airplane. Some, but not that many. I

when the shit hits the fan, who do you want making the decisions about how to get you safely on the ground, a monkey or a highly skilled, experienced pilot who respects aviation for it's inherent dangers!

I guess a "highly skilled, experienced pilot", but what constitutes said pilot? Are these pilot's rare? If so I guess I wouldn't want to be on most planes. Are they the norm? If they are what's the big deal. And what's to say this highly experienced pilot won't freak out and piss themselves when the time comes? There's really no way to predict this.

I know one thing about us that certainly doesn't make us some highly skilled bunch of people. Bickering about it in relentless circles until the end of time.

I fly because I love it, and I'll talk about flying with anybody who will listen, but not so I can pat myself on the back and think about what a hero I am. It's just what I like to do.

And the way i read it, Cat doesn't have low self worth, he just doesn't consider himself some hugely superior, one of a kind, super man.

ok, that's enough from me for now.

[Ricky Bobby]

Long time reader, but this topic finally got me to post.

It cracks me up why somebody would be so anal and get offended because of a reality check that we pilots are not God's gift to the world. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your work, but come on. There are more people who can be pilots than who can't. What about the doctor or lawyer or CEO who is also a private pilot....some even jet rated. They must really be talented. Just imagine the ego....

Me thinks these are the same people who wear the stripes out to the bar.

Cheers,

RB

[gli77]

"Me thinks these are the same people who wear the stripes out to the bar."

No way someone has actually done that?

[. ._]

Permanent position for a supervisor in the cabinetmaking dept.

5 - 10 years as aircraft cabinetmaker.
2 - 4 years experience as supervisor, or crew chief in aerospace industry.

Salary to be discussed in interview. (minimum 65K/year)

Please send your resume by email or by fax to the attention of Fabien.
Email: fabien@jobsimon.com
Fax: 514-845-9090
Bizzare!

If you had 5-10 years experience as a pilot and 2-4 years experience as a chief pilot, I'm pretty sure you could find a flying job for 65K/year.

I don't see the point of this post, but of course I'll comment.

-istp

[scubasoj]

Thank you Ricky Bobby for posting what i was thinking.
The egos in pilots are unbelievable thinking they are doing something that requires some sort of special skill. All it requires really is a high school education and a means of securing the funds to pay for the training.
It is no different than any other skilled trade and neither is the pay scale. Take a electrician, working 2 or 3 yrs as an apprentice at a extremely low wage before being able to make a decent wage and i would put that trade on the same level as being a pilot.
Also, why does it seem that most of the egos ive met in aviation come from people who are in their early 20s, while the older pilots who have been flying for 40 yrs seem not have to the urge to stick out their chests and act like their shit doesnt stink even though they are the ones of have legitimate reasons to do so?
reminds me of the old saying..
"well done is better than well said"

[Hedley]

Keep in mind that the greatest aspiration of 99.99999% of the pilots these days, is to be a unionized heavy equipment operator

[Cat Driver]

Ragbagflyer said:

And the way i read it, Cat doesn't have low self worth, he just doesn't consider himself some hugely superior, one of a kind, super man.

Exactly ragbag, I post here for the vast majority of young guys to read how aviation really is based on what I have learned.

There is no way I will let some misguided fool hiding behind a made up name slag me on this forum without just cause.

So this is for mbav8r.......

I personally feel I am about medium skills and knowlege wise as a pilot and that the job is medium on the list of occupations.

However there are other factors that enter into the picture that better focuses on whether or not I have a low self worth which by default would detract from my ability to excell as a pilot.

What matters more is what others think about my contribution to flying....so lets list some.

Air France gave me a life time ID card as a honorary gift for flying under their sponsorship.

Airbus Industries gave me the sim training as a gift for the same reason.

Brightling gave me a limited edition watch for flying in the air show business sponsored by them.

Red Bull accepted me as a pilot they would sponsor.

Mirimax gave me several gifts for flying for them.

The insurance uderwriters at Lloyds of London will issue reduced insurance costs after being trained by me.

I hold pilot licenses and or approvals to teach under.

JAR

CASA

South African CAA.


I hold an unrestricted airshow display authorization for Europe.

And of course the main thing that gives me self worth is having flown around thirty thousand accident free hours over the period of 54 years with no violations of the rules.

So what more do you feel I should do to get some self worth?

[mbav8r]

Cat Driver wrote:

So this is for mbav8r.......

I personally feel I am about medium skills and knowlege wise as a pilot and that the job is medium on the list of occupations.

However there are other factors that enter into the picture that better focuses on whether or not I have a low self worth which by default would detract from my ability to excell as a pilot.

What matters more is what others think about my contribution to flying....so lets list some.

Air France gave me a life time ID card as a honorary gift for flying under their sponsorship.

Airbus Industries gave me the sim training as a gift for the same reason.

Brightling gave me a limited edition watch for flying in the air show business sponsored by them.

Red Bull accepted me as a pilot they would sponsor.

Mirimax gave me several gifts for flying for them.

The insurance uderwriters at Lloyds of London will issue reduced insurance costs after being trained by me.

I hold pilot licenses and or approvals to teach under.

JAR

CASA

South African CAA.


I hold an unrestricted airshow display authorization for Europe.

And of course the main thing that gives me self worth is having flown around thirty thousand accident free hours over the period of 54 years with no violations of the rules.

So what more do you feel I should do to get some self worth?

I'm sorry that you felt personally attacked, I formed my opinions, they are just that, opinions based on what you were saying about a profession that you endeavored for 50 years. All those achievments you've listed, I would venture that they are not handed out to many and wonder if you feel that anyone with half a brain could achieve the same status as you've achieved in aviation.
You remind me a little bit of the Pilots that warned me too pursue a different career path. I was a rampie and got my first taste of flying while on a flight as a load master. We were on the return flight from Hall Beach and the captain asked if I wanted to fly. 500 or so hrs in the jumpseat later I was off to get my licence. The long time 748 pilots tried to tell me that aviation is full of disapointments and heartache but I pursued it anyhow. They were very jaded and had been so let down, that they felt the need to discourage anyone who wanted this life and your attitude towards aviation re:medium skilled labour, obviously hit a sore spot with me.
You're right though, I don't know you or how you feel about yourself, but it seems like you have accomplished alot and should be a little bit proud and try not to be so discouraging to others pursuing their dreams.

Sincerest apologies

[just curious]

why are people still learning how to fly? (for a living)

Because it´s still fun.

[Panama Jack]

This should explain it all, from a US perspective. Feel free to fill in names like Jazz, Westjet, or Air Canada where you may feel appropriate.

Shiny Jet Syndrome (pdf download)