Bomb kills 6 Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan

[bob sacamano]

It's funny how you are all about sending our boys to go fight so they can speard democracy, yet when someone one here has a different opinion, you jump all over him/her and call them names.

I think you're confusing democracy and freedom of speech.

It is not undemocratic to criticize someone else's point of view.

Name calling someone on a forum is not criticising.

And no, I'm not confusing democracy and freedom of speech.

[bob sacamano]

...Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?

Looks like I'm not the only one huh?

However I'd love to join my 200 other Marine brothers participating in OEF, I'm needed where I currently am.

What are you doing?

Can't be too tough if you can log on here on a daily basis.

As for me, right now I'm on the can.

[bob sacamano]

It's funny how you are all about sending our boys to go fight so they can speard democracy, yet when someone one here has a different opinion, you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?

Theres a difference between constructed disagreement and being a buffoon. We are criticizing his rationale, with a little bit of emotion thrown in, because we're sick of it. Canadians are pussies these days, for the most part.

That being said, I am enlisting. Being on these boards must be proof enough to you how much I want to be a pilot, both civy and AF. But I think I just may drop that idea to become an infantry soldier and fight in Afghanistan. So sleep easy knowing your freedom and the quality of life you enjoy is due in large part by the men and women risking their lives every single waking second they are in Afghanistan. And I hope too to join those men and women. Soon.

Every man and woman has a choice and if that's yours, then good for you.

I know that whatever is happening in afghanistan has nothing to do with my freedom here. But hey, that's just me.

So by you going there, don't feel like I owe you anything, and don't think that you're helping me sleep any better. It's the drugs that are helping me sleep better.

[grimey]

you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Awesome.

[invertedattitude]

It's funny how you are all about sending our boys to go fight so they can speard democracy, yet when someone one here has a different opinion, you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?

Theres a difference between constructed disagreement and being a buffoon. We are criticizing his rationale, with a little bit of emotion thrown in, because we're sick of it. Canadians are pussies these days, for the most part.

That being said, I am enlisting. Being on these boards must be proof enough to you how much I want to be a pilot, both civy and AF. But I think I just may drop that idea to become an infantry soldier and fight in Afghanistan. So sleep easy knowing your freedom and the quality of life you enjoy is due in large part by the men and women risking their lives every single waking second they are in Afghanistan. And I hope too to join those men and women. Soon.

Every man and woman has a choice and if that's yours, then good for you.

I know that whatever is happening in afghanistan has nothing to do with my freedom here. But hey, that's just me.

So by you going there, don't feel like I owe you anything, and don't think that you're helping me sleep any better. It's the drugs that are helping me sleep better.

Shows how little you understand our current global envrionment

[Hedley]

He's a trash hauler that thinks a hammer and sickle is "cool"

Would you care what some punk with a Metallica tattoo on his forehead said?

[bob sacamano]

you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Awesome.

I'm calling them bafoons based on their actions. I wasn't debating with them and then just replied by calling them names.

Capice? probably not.

[bob sacamano]

Theres a difference between constructed disagreement and being a buffoon. We are criticizing his rationale, with a little bit of emotion thrown in, because we're sick of it. Canadians are pussies these days, for the most part.

That being said, I am enlisting. Being on these boards must be proof enough to you how much I want to be a pilot, both civy and AF. But I think I just may drop that idea to become an infantry soldier and fight in Afghanistan. So sleep easy knowing your freedom and the quality of life you enjoy is due in large part by the men and women risking their lives every single waking second they are in Afghanistan. And I hope too to join those men and women. Soon.

Every man and woman has a choice and if that's yours, then good for you.

I know that whatever is happening in afghanistan has nothing to do with my freedom here. But hey, that's just me.

So by you going there, don't feel like I owe you anything, and don't think that you're helping me sleep any better. It's the drugs that are helping me sleep better.

Shows how little you understand our current global envrionment

Please do enlighten me as to how actions in afghanistan are connected and threaten my way of life here in Canada.

Howbout pakistan and india having nukes? howbout north korea? Howbout the salafists/wahabists in saudi arabia that have funding from one of the richest countries in the world? Howbout israel and it's nukes? should I keep on going?

A few thugs rolling around in '87 toyota pick-up trucks are the leasts of my concerns. What concerns me more is the arms that they have were given to them by the cia.

The u.s. and bush are more of a threat to me than thugs in Afghanistan. They spring up terrorists and back them up everyday. They make them, just how they made bin laden.

Why is it that the taliban officials were invited to the white house for oil talks back a few years ago and now all of the sudden they became the big bad wolf?

Why aren't we in saudi arabia fighting for freedom and democracy? Girls have to be vailed and have no rights, shouldn't we go fight for them? Howbout the fact that roughly 90% of the 9/11 terrorists, including bin ladin are all from saudi arabia yet we are after afghans?

But sure, if you like, we can say that I have no knowledge about the current global political situation, and resort to name calling.

[bob sacamano]

He's a trash hauler that thinks a hammer and sickle is "cool"

Would you care what some punk with a Metallica tattoo on his forehead said?

Actually I don't think it's cool, I think the girl is cool though, something you won't understand. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[grimey]

you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Awesome.

I'm calling them bafoons based on their actions. I wasn't debating with them and then just replied by calling them names.

Capice? probably not.

Neither were the others who hopped on Dashate for politicizing the 6 dead soldiers.

Or didn't you read that part?

[Dash-Ate]

Look, if you don;t want to bring the troops home to defend our borders then at least insist that every other G-7 country sends troops over there as well.

To send a few canucks to a place where it is Vietnam style fighing, they will pick off 1 to 10 of our troops each month FOREVER! No joke.

That is why I call it a suicide mission that harper is sending them on.

Canadians went to Somalia in the early 1990s - how did that turn out. Would you want to live there?

US "leaders" say that war is hell, people die, get over it. So why do we mourn our dead? According to them we should just "get over it".
To me that is an evil attitude.

[the_professor]

Look, if you don;t want to bring the troops home to defend our borders then at least insist that every other G-7 country sends troops over there as well.

Obviously you didn't read my post earlier, which helps to explain your ignorance on the matter.

The only two G8 countries (it has been called the G8 for 10 years, by the way) absent are Russia and Japan. Japan has a defense force only, as per their constitution, so they could not contribute offensive troops regardless.

So Russia is the only one not there.

Next?

[Driving Rain]

Look, if you don;t want to bring the troops home to defend our borders then at least insist that every other G-7 country sends troops over there as well.

Obviously you didn't read my post earlier, which helps to explain your ignorance on the matter.

The only two G8 countries (it has been called the G8 for 10 years, by the way) absent are Russia and Japan. Japan has a defense force only, as per their constitution, so they could not contribute offensive troops regardless.

So Russia is the only one not there.

Next?

Well they sent their Self Defence Force to Iraq. I guess they felt threatend by Ira...er US trade sanctions.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/dec20 ... -d16.shtml
Russia was there and the West in particular the US of A funded the opposition. You remember Osama don't you? I have to wonder what would have happened had the US kept their nose out of it. What would be the reality today. Next?

[taxiway_matthew]

Look, if you don;t want to bring the troops home to defend our borders then at least insist that every other G-7 country sends troops over there as well.

To send a few canucks to a place where it is Vietnam style fighing, they will pick off 1 to 10 of our troops each month FOREVER! No joke.

That is why I call it a suicide mission that harper is sending them on.

Canadians went to Somalia in the early 1990s - how did that turn out. Would you want to live there?

US "leaders" say that war is hell, people die, get over it. So why do we mourn our dead? According to them we should just "get over it".
To me that is an evil attitude.

Hey dumbshit we already established that the Liberals sent them over, and Harpers not a Liberal

Our troops volunteer to go over and fight because they believe in what they do. They go out there, face to face with death each day, because they believe they are making a difference for Canada, and especially for Afghanistan

Pulling our troops out would mean the Taliban regime would regain strength and go back to their old ways. God knows how many more people would die if the Taliban were back in power. Compare that to the 50 or so Canadians who've died thus far, then really, pulling out would be a suicide mission against the Afghans.

Now shut the hell up, and support your troops, who put their lives on the line every day so you can have the freedom and the quality of life you enjoy. And stop using their deaths to make a political point. You selfish prick.

[Mac]

Please do enlighten me as to how actions in afghanistan are connected and threaten my way of life here in Canada.

Anybody?

[xsbank]

Taxiway, just because you are incapable of rational thought does not make your point any more credible by calling people names.

I also think that Afghanistan is a waste of our troops - its been fought over since the British tried to pave the Khyber Pass. Invaders have always lost there. Always.

I am very proud of our troops but we have a very small army and we cannot save the rest of the world. I don't think we should be trying.

I think we should be looking after our own country first, like some others have said...we have many problems here, at home, that the talents and qualities that our forces display could go a long way towards repairing.

I think the Taliban scum and all the rest of those who insist on living in the 14th century should just carry on doing so until they see the light. By then, perhaps, they will be closer to the way the west behaves.

Notice I haven't mentioned politics..........

[Crazymax]

If have just a few words for you, people that mix up politics and troops in Afghanistan :

If you refuse to stand behind our troops, feel free to stand up front.

Max

[mellow_pilot]

Max, I would hope that you are not suggesting that we take the approach of the US gov and make such a logical error. Support for the military and it's members is not predicated on support for the mission.

Just cause you don't agree with the deployment doesn't mean that you, in any way, disrespect the men and women in uniform. I would suggest that using such a connection, support mission=support troops and vice versa, is more insulting to the men and women serving than disagreeing with their deployment. I would not like to be used as a political pawn in such a manner.

I would hope that the merits and legitimacy of the Afghanistan mission can be debated openly in our counrty. Doing so should not question the mettle of, or respect for, those who impliment that mission.

War is a grave affair of state;
it is a place of life and death,
a road to survival and extinction,
a matter to be pondered carefully.
-Sun-tzu

[shitdisturber]

Please do enlighten me as to how actions in afghanistan are connected and threaten my way of life here in Canada.

Anybody?

Sure I'll give it a shot.

The Taliban as we know are nutbar religious zealots and their leaders included that well known friend to democracy and Christianity, Osama bin Laden. They have been running back and forth between Afghanistan and Pakistan with impunity ever since they were ousted from power in Kabul; I suspect with the tolerance if not the assistance of Musharraf despite his loud protestations of support for the US and NATO. Apparently they are getting a little more fractious in Pakistan these days; witness the recent Imam who decided he was going to hold a sharia court in some Pakistani village I never heard of and he dared Musharraf to stop him. From there things will probably start to snowball unless the Taliban is wiped out. How comfortable are you going to be if Osama and the Taliban get control of Pakistan; their nice, shiny, relatively new F-16's and the nukes to go with them? Keep in mind we aren't Osama's favourite people either; maybe not on a scale with the Americans and the Brits but he wouldn't mind dropping a couple on us as a little Christmas present.

[taxiway_matthew]

Taxiway, just because you are incapable of rational thought does not make your point any more credible by calling people names.

I also think that Afghanistan is a waste of our troops - its been fought over since the British tried to pave the Khyber Pass. Invaders have always lost there. Always.

I am very proud of our troops but we have a very small army and we cannot save the rest of the world. I don't think we should be trying.

I think we should be looking after our own country first, like some others have said...we have many problems here, at home, that the talents and qualities that our forces display could go a long way towards repairing.

I think the Taliban scum and all the rest of those who insist on living in the 14th century should just carry on doing so until they see the light. By then, perhaps, they will be closer to the way the west behaves.

Notice I haven't mentioned politics..........

Ah yes, don't call names, yet accuse me of being incapable of rational thought..hmmm, double standard anyone?

You make Khyber Pass sound as if it will be impossible to conquer. They said Vimy Ridge was impossible too. Hmm, you must no more than I though. All I know is that when theres such a lack of support, nothings going to be done as well as it can, as low support is just pissing on morale.

We do have a very small army. But, we have a very GOOD, small army, one of the best in the world, for, in the words of George S. Patton, "Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets." We are the educated bullets, Canada has, hands down, one of the best, if not THE best trained armies in the world. No Taliban POS can change that. We will win, and we will bring order to Afghanistan.

Furthermore, we are not trying to save the world, we are trying to bring order and fix a problem that has the potential to, and indeed has already, affected us (re. 9/11). Not only that, we are part of a large group, that being NATO, which is trying to restore order, and bring Afghanistan to peace and stability. Canada is not in there solo. Listen to what General Hillier has to say. We are leading, undoubtedly, the most violent area of Afghanistan, and we are not receiving as much support from the other countries of NATO that we could do with, partly due to the fact that the other governments of NATO have restricted many of their armies to parts that aren;t as violent.

Now why would we look after our own country first. Canada's a well greased wheel, everything is going well, not perfect, but there are other wordly priorities to worry about, before worrying about our own. Compare our country to that of Afghanistan.
Human Development Index
Canada - 0.950
Afghanistan - 0.229 (Thats so low, it isn't even ranked, and there's only a couple African countries who are so low they aren't even ranked)

Infant Mortality Rate
Canada - 0.47% (Thats half a percent)
Afghanistan - 16% total (160.23 deaths per 1000 born)

Life expectancy (At birth)
Canada - 80 years 80 days
Afghanistan - 43 years 124 days

Literacy Rate
Canada - 99% total
Afghanistan - 36% total


Yeah, compared to Afghanistan, we got some real problems over here. No wonder theres so many damn terrorists over here, recruiting men, women and children to blow themselves to shit and disrupt world peace. Please tell me, what problems do we have over here, which are so bad you can barely live a free and normal life, that requires us to pull our troops out of Afghanistan and bring them over here? I'm all ears.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure letting fucked up people such as a Taliban "see the light" is the single worst solution to the problem. Tough times call for tough measure, not this pansy-ass lets let them come to the realization on their own. They won't realize it. They HATE Western society and they want to DESTROY it. We did not occupy any of their land in the time immediately leading up to 9/11, yet they attacked. That shows, clearly, they are not moral, rational thinkers, who are going to "be nice to the westerners because they pulled out"

Again I reiterate a point I made in an earlier post, take a look through history and see how other conflicts turned out...history always repeats it self, and an ignorance to history is going to @#$! you over big time. The Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan, yet the Taliban grew strong. Whats going to change this time if NATO pulls out?

THen again what do I know, I'm incapable of rational thought.

[taxiway_matthew]

Forgot to add, theres the whole women treatment issue to worry about too with the Taliban...dont see this too often in Canada http://www.rawa.us/movies/zarmeena.mpg

[xsbank]

Taxi says:
"Again I reiterate a point I made in an earlier post, take a look through history and see how other conflicts turned out...history always repeats it self, and an ignorance to history is going to @#$! you over big time. The Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan, yet the Taliban grew strong. Whats going to change this time if NATO pulls out?"
Show me...

Chronological History of Afghanistan

Part III (1747 - 1978)

1747--1773

Rule of Ahmad Shah Abdali (Durrani).
Ahmad Shah consolidates and enlarges Afghanistan. He defeats the Moghuls in the west of the Indus, and he takes Herat away from the Persians. Ahmad Shah Durrani's empire extended from Central Asia to Delhi, from Kashmir to the Arabian sea. It became the greatest Muslim empire in the second half of the 18th century.
(1750) Khurasan----> Afghanistan.
1773-1793

Rule of Timur Shah
Capital of Afghanistan transferred from Kandahar to Kabul because of tribal opposition.
Constant internal revolts
1793-1801

Rule of Zaman Shah
Constant internal revolts
(1795) Persians invade Khurasan (province)
1801-1803

Rule of Mahmood
Constant internal revolts
1803-1809

Rule of Shah Shujah
(1805) Persian attack on Herat fails.
Internal fighting
1809-1818

Mahmood returns to the throne.
War with Persia--indecisive victory
Internal fighting
1819-1826

Sons of Timur Shah struggle for the throne--Civil War--anarchy--
Afghans lose Sind permanently
1826--

Dost Mohammad Khan takes Kabul, and establishes control.
1832--1833

Persia moves into Khurasan (province), and threatens Herat. Afghans defend Herat successfully.
1834--

(May)--Afghans lose Peshawar to the Sikhs; later they crushed the Sikhs under the leadership of Akbar Khan who defeated the Sikhs near Jamrud, and killed the great Sikh general Hari Singh. However, they failed to retake Peshawar due to disunity and bad judgment on the part of Dost Mohammad Khan.
1836--

Dost Mohammad Khan is proclaimed as Amir al-mu' minin (commander of the faithful). He was well on the road toward reunifying the whole of Afghanistan when the British, in collaboration with an ex-king (Shah Shuja), invade Afghanistan.
1839-1842

First Anglo-Afghan War
After some resistance, Amir Dost Mohammad Khan surrenders to the British and is deported to India.
Shah Shuja is installed as a "puppet king" by the British. (1839-1842)
April 1842--Shah Shuja killed by Afghans.
Afghans passionately continue their struggle against the British.
Akbar Khan--Afghan hero--victorious against the British.
In January 1842, out of 16,500 soldiers (and 12,000 dependents) only one survivor, of mixed British-Indian garrison, reaches the fort in Jalalabad, on a stumbling pony.
1843

After the annihilation of British troops, Afghanistan once again becomes independent, and the exiled Amir, Dost Mohammad Khan comes back and occupies the royal throne (1843-1863).
1845--

Afghan hero, Akbar Khan dies
1855

Dost Mohammad Khan signs a peace treaty with India.
1859--

British take Baluchistan, and Afghanistan becomes completely landlocked.
1863-1866

Sher Ali, Dost Mohammad Khan's son, succeeds to the throne.
(1865)--Russia takes Bukhara, Tashkent, and Samarkand.
1866-1867

Mohammad Afzal occupies Kabul and proclaims himself Amir.
October, 1867--Mohammad Afzal dies.
1867-1868--

Mohammad Azam succeeds to the throne
1868--Mohammad Azam flees to Persia
Sher Ali reasserts control (1868-1879).
1873

Russia established a fixed boundary between Afghanistan and it's new territories.
Russia promises to respect Afghanistan's territorial integrity.
1878

Start of second Anglo-Afghan War
The British invade and the Afghans quickly put up a strong resistance.
1879

Sher Ali dies in Mazar-i-Shariff, and Amir Muhammad Yaqub Khan takes over until October 1879.
Amir Muhammad Yaqub Khan gives up the following Afghan territories to the British: Kurram, Khyber, Michni, Pishin, and Sibi. Afghans lose these territories permanently.
1880

Battle of Maiwand
July 1880, Afghan woman named Malalai carries the Afghan flag forward after the soldiers carrying the flag were killed by the British. She becomes a heroine for her show of courage and valour.
Abdur Rahman takes throne of Afghanistan as Amir.
The British, shortly after the accession of the new Amir, withdraw from Afghanistan, although they retain the right to handle Afghanistan's foreign relations.
Abdur Rahman establishes fixed borders and he loses a lot of Afghan land.
Nuristan converted to Islam.
1885--

The Panjdeh Incident
Russian forces seize the Panjdeh Oasis, a piece of Afghan territory north of the Oxus River. Afghans tried to retake it, but was finally forced to allow the Russians to keep Panjdeh - Russians promised to honor Afghan territorial integrity in the future.
1893

The Durand line fixes borders of Afghanistan with British India, splitting Afghan tribal areas, leaving half of these Afghans in what is now Pakistan.
1895

Afghanistan's northern border is fixed and guaranteed by Russia
1901--

Abdur Rahman dies, his son Habibullah succeeds him.
Slows steps toward modernization
1907--

Russia and Great Britain sign the convention of St. Petersburg, in which Afghanistan is declared outside Russia's sphere of influence.
1918--

Mahmud Tarzi (Afghan Intellectual) introduces modern Journalism into Afghanistan with the creation of several newspapers.
1919--

Habibullah is assassinated, and succeeded by his son Amanullah (The reform King)
The first museum in Afghanistan is instituted at Baghe Bala.
1921--

Third Anglo-Afghan war
Once again, the British are defeated, and Afghanistan gains full control of her foreign affairs.
Amanullah Khan initiates a series of ambitious efforts at social and political modernization.
1923--

Amanullah Khan changes his title from Amir to Padshah (King).
1929--

Amanullah Khan is overthrown by Habibullah Kalakani.
After the fall of Amanullah Khan, Mahmud Tarzi seeks asylum in Turkey.
The Rise and Fall of Habibullah Kalakani, popularly known as "Bache Saqao"
Nadir Khan takes the throne; his tribal army loots government buildings and houses of wealthy citizens because the treasury was empty.
Habibullah Kalakani, along with his supporters, and a few supporters of Amanullah Khan are killed by Nadir Khan. Now Nadir Khan establishes full control.
1930--

(May) Pro-Amanullah Khan uprising put down by Nadir Khan.
Nadir Khan abolishes reforms set forth by Amanullah Khan to modernize Afghanistan.
1933--

Nadir Khan assassinated by a college student, and his son, Zahir, inherits the throne. He rules until 1973.
Zahir Shah's uncles serve as prime ministers and advisors until 1953.
Mahmud Tarzi dies in Turkey at the age of 68 with a heart full of sorrow and despair toward his country.
1934--

The United States of America formally recognizes Afghanistan
1938--

Da Afghanistan Bank (State Bank of Afghanistan) is incorporated.
1939--

Minor pro-Amanullah Khan uprising (January 15)
1940--

Zahir Shah proclaims Afghanistan as neutral during WW2
1947--

Britain withdraws from India. Pakistan is carved out of Indian and Afghan lands.
1949--

Afghanistan's Parliament denounces the Durand Treaty and refuses to recognize the Durand line as a legal boundary between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Pashtuns in Pashtunistan (Occupied Afghan Land) proclaim an independent Pashtunistan, but their proclamation goes unacknowledged by the world community.
1953--

Prince Mohammad Daoud becomes Prime Minister.
1954--

The U.S. rejects Afghanistan's request to buy military equipment to modernize the army.
1955--

Daoud turns to the Soviet Union (Russia) for military aid.
The Pashtunistan (occupied Afghan land) issue flares up.
1956--

Kruschev and Bulgaria agree to help Afghanistan.
Close ties between Afghanistan and USSR.
1959--

The Purdah is made optional, women begin to enroll in the University which has become co-educational.
Women begin to enter the workforce, and the government.
1961--

Pakistan and Afghanistan come close to war over Pashtunistan.
1963-1964--

Zahir Shah demands Daoud's resignation. Dr. Mohammad Yusof becomes Prime Minister.
1965--

The Afghan Communist Party was secretly formed in January. Babrak Karmal is one of the founders.
In September, first nationwide elections under the new constitution.
Karmal was elected to the Parliament, later instigates riots.
Zahir and Yussof form second government.
1969--

Second nationwide elections.
Babrak and Hafizullah Amin are elected.
1972--

Mohammad Moussa becomes Prime Minister.
1973--

July 17th: Zahir Shah is on vacation in Europe, when his government is overthrown in a military coup headed by Daoud Khan and PDPA (Afghan Communist Party).
Daoud Khan abolishes the monarchy, declares himself President---Republic of Afghanistan is established.
1974--

UNESCO names Herat as one of the first cities to be designated as a part of the worlds cultural heritage.
1975--1977--

Daoud Khan presents a new constitution. Women's rights confirmed.
Daoud starts to oust suspected opponents from his government.
1978--

Bloody Communist coup: Daoud is killed, Taraki is named President, and Karmal becomes his deputy Prime Minister. Tensions rise.
Mass arrests, tortures, and arrests takes place.
Afghan flag is changed.
Taraki signs treaty of friendship with the Soviet Union.
June--Afghan guerrilla (Mujahideen) movement is born.

[xsbank]

Chronological History of Afghanistan

Part IV (1978 - Present)

1978--

Bloody Communist coup: Daoud is killed, Taraki is named President, and Karmal becomes his deputy Prime Minister. Tensions rise.
Mass arrests, tortures, and arrests takes place.
Afghan flag is changed.
Taraki signs treaty of friendship with the Soviet Union.
June--Afghan guerrilla (Mujahideen) movement is born.
1979--

Mass killings
US ambassador killed
Taraki is killed and Hafizullah Amin takes the Presidency.
Amin is executed, and he is replaced with Babrak Karmal.
Soviet Union (Russia) invade in December.
1980--

Dr. Najibullah is brought back from USSR to run the secret police.
1984--

UN sends investigators to Afghanistan to examine reported human rights violations.
1986--

Babrak Karmal is replaced by Dr. Najibullah.
1987--

Najibullah proposes ceasefire, but the Mujahideen refuse to deal with a "puppet government".
Mujahideen make great gains, defeat of Soviets eminent.
1988--1989--

Peace accords signed in Geneva.
Soviet Union defeated by Afghanistan, total withdrawal by the Soviets occurred on Feb. 15, 1989.
Experts agree that at least 40,000-50,000 Soviets lost their lives in action, besides the wounded, suicides, and murders.
Mujahideen continue to fight against Najibullah's regime.
May--Afghan guerrillas elect Sibhhatullah Mojadidi as head of their government-in-exile.
1992--

April 15--The Mujahideen take Kabul and liberate Afghanistan, Najibullah is protected by UN.
The Mujahideen form an Islamic State--Islamic Jihad Council--elections.
Iranian and Pakistani interference increases--more fighting--
Professor Burhannudin Rabbani is elected President.
1994--

The Taliban militia are born, and advance rapidly against the Rabbani government.
Dostum and Hekmatyar continued to clash against Rabbani's government, and as a result Kabul is reduced to rubble.
1995--

Massive gains by the Taliban.
Increased Pakistani and Iranian interference.
1996--

June--Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, head of Hezbi-Islami, having been eliminated as a military power, signs a peace pact with Rabbani, and returns to Kabul to rule as prime minister.
September 27--Taliban militia force President Rabbani and his government out of Kabul. After the capture of Kabul, the Taliban execute Najibullah.
Alliance between Government, Hezbi Wahdat, and Dostum
Oppression of women by the Taliban--women must be fully veiled, no longer allowed to work, go out alone or even wear white socks. Men are forced to grow beards. Buzkashi, the Afghan national sport is outlawed.
Tensions rise as Afghan government accuse Pakistan of aiding the Taliban.
Massive human rights violations by the Taliban.
1997--

Mass graves of Taliban soldiers containing between 1,500 and 2,000 bodies are found. The men were believed to have been captured in May by general Abdul Malik during the Taliban's brief takeover of Mazar-i-Sharif.
1998--

February--Earthquake strikes in northeastern Afghansitan, killing over 4,000 people, destroying villages and leaving thousands of people homeless.
August--Taliban finally capture Mazar-i-Sharif, and massacre thousands of innocent civilians afterwards, mostly Hazaras.
August 20th--United States launches cruise missles hitting Afghanistan's Khost region. US states its intent was to destroy so called terrorist bases/training facilities used by Osama bin Laden and his followers. Some Afghan civilians are also killed.
September--Tensions rise between Iran and the Taliban. Iranians are angry about the killing of their diplomats and a journalist by the Taliban when they captured Mazar-i-Sharif. Soon they deploy 70,000 troops to carry out military exercises near the Afghan border. In the end, no fighting occurs between the Taliban and the Iranian army.
1999--

February--Earthquake hits eastern Afghanistan, affecting over 30,000 people, and killing at least 60 to 70 people.
September--The ex-king of Afghanistan, Mohammad Zahir Shah, calls for a grand assembly, or Loya Jirga to discuss ways of bringing peace to the country. The United Front soon welcomes the idea, but the Taliban ridicule Mohammad Zahir Shah's attempts at establishing peace.
October-- UN Security Council Resolution 1267 is adopted; sanctions against the Taliban on grounds that they offered sanctuary to Osama bin Ladin.
2000--

May--Taliban torture and kill civilians in the Robatak Pass
(on the border between Baghlan and Samangan provinces).
September--Taloqan finally falls to the Taliban.
December-- UN Security Council Resolution 1333 is adopted; additional sanctions against the Taliban for their continuing support of terrorism and cultivation of narcotics, etc.
2001--

January--Taliban torture and kill numerous civilians (Hazaras) in Yakaolang.
March--Despite pleas and requests from various international diplomats, Islamic scholars, the Taliban destroy ancient historical statues in the Kabul Museum, historical sites in Ghazni, and blow up the giant Bamiyan Buddhas from the 5th century. World expresses outrage and disgust against the Taliban action.
April--Ahmad Shah Masood visits Europe to gather support against the Taliban.
April--UN accuses Pakistan of not allowing adequate supply of food and medicines to displaced Afghans, at the Jalozai camp, near Peshawar.
April-- Mullah Rabbani, the Taliban's second-in-command dies of liver cancer.
May-- Taliban order religious minorities to wear tags identifying themselves as non-Muslims.
September 9-- Ahmad Shah Masood is killed by assassins posing as journalists. Two days later (September 11th), suicide attacks on the U.S. kill more than 3,000 people and destroy the two towers of the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon.
October-- Abdul Haq is killed by the Taliban. The United States and UK working with the forces of the United Front (UNIFSA) launch air strikes against the Taliban. ( The Americans hold Osama bin Laden directly responsible for the attacks on the World Trade Center, and the Taliban were targeted for protecting him.)
November: Taliban lose control of Mazar-i Sharif.
December 5-- Bonn Agreement. Afghan political groups come together in Bonn, Germany and form an interim government. Hamid Karzai is chosen as Chairman.
2002--

April-- Former King Mohammad Zahir returns to Afghanistan (April) -- does not claim throne.
War continues against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
June-- Loya Jirga elects Hamid Karzai as President of a Transitional Government. Karzai picks members of his administration to serve until elections are held in 2004
July-- Haji Abdul Qadir (brother of Abdul Haq) is killed. US air raid in Uruzgan province kills approximately 48 civilians, many of them members of a wedding party
2003--

War against Al Qaeda and the Taliban continue -- further weakened.
August - NATO takes control of security in Kabul.
2004--

January-- Afghanistan adopts a new constitution. The country is now a republic with 3 branches of government (Executive, Legislative, and Judiciary).
2004 October/November - Presidential elections are finally held after being delayed twice. Hamid Karzai is declared the winner, with 55.4% of the votes. He is sworn in December. Karzai's strongest challenger, Yunis Qanuni, came in second with 16.3% of the votes. The elections were not without controversy; allegations of fraud and ballot stuffing were brought up by many of the presidential candidates including Yunis Qanuni. Many felt that Hamid Karzai had an unfair advantage over the other candidates as he had access to financial and logistical resources that many of the other candidates did not have. A panel of international experts was setup to investigate the matter. The panel did find evidence of voting irregularities, however, they said that it was not enough to affect the outcome of the elections.
2005--

Harsh winter leaves hundreds of people dead.
Major advances in the disarmament process announced.
March-- Dostum appointed as the Chief of Staff to the Commander of the Armed Forces. Yunis Qanuni announces new political alliance (March 31st).
April-- Karzai welcomes the formation of Qanuni's political alliance.

Taxi says:
"Again I reiterate a point I made in an earlier post, take a look through history and see how other conflicts turned out...history always repeats it self, and an ignorance to history is going to @#$! you over big time. The Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan, yet the Taliban grew strong. Whats going to change this time if NATO pulls out?"

Here 'ya go Taxi, show me how the past conflicts in Afghanistan since the 1700s tell us how much of a chance Canada has of winning in this God-forsaken place? These are the guys who play polo with a human head and are pioneers in the 'blow yourself up' techniques.

We are nice guys who hand out candy.

Another point, the Russians did not "...pull(ed) out of Afghanistan..." they were DEFEATED.

[paratrooper]

My old man headed me towards this site, wanted some of my imput. Personally the best use I found for airplanes was to get the hell out of them around 1250 ft

I've been to Afghanistan, I've lost friends there. It sucks, and my heart goes out to the loved ones of those soldiers. I know that the hardest part of going is knowing what those you love will go through if anything happens to you. Going is the easy part.

About the mission.. I don't know. I don't know if anyone can tell at this point.

With all the talk of Vimy, I would like to let you all know that we still carry the will-do attitude of our forefathers. If Canadian troops are asked to do something, it will be accomplished. Today's soldiers are smarter, more educated, and better equipped than any soldier in the past. If anyone can do it in Afghanistan, we can.

But what are we doing?

Number one, seperate Afghanistan from Iraq.
Number two, seperate south-eastern afghanistan from the North.

We have done a lot of good in the north, which is enjoying relative development and peace. Afghanistan will not be a functioning democracy tomorrow, or ten years from now. Women will not be free from oppression for a long time. Opium will still be the crop of choice, just as cocoa is in Colombia.

If we're exporting democracy, lets start south of our border. Women's rights, how long did they take to develop in Canada? LOL, and as for drugs, does ANYONE know what BC's biggest export is?? (hint, it's not softwood lumber)

So lets ask the local Afghans what they want. I did. They wanted the freedom and security to be left alone and carve out an existance. For the most part, they hated the Taliban.

Outside of Kabul, you can basically forget about any sort of nationalism, Afghanistan is mostly just a word. The people are strictly tribal in nature (think Scotland's clans), and strictly Islamic. They are also a very proud people of a warrior class. Like the Scots, they will fight you just because you are there. Unless you can convince them to fight with you. We will never do this by imposing our western decadent values upon them.

(As a side note, to those ripping on Pakistan, they lost 500 soldiers fighting in Waziristan. In an unpopular war... there is a lot of support from within for the Islamic cause. They are doing MORE than their part)

I think we are doing good there... no one will respect us if we can't hold our own in a fight. Which is what we are proving now, that we will stand by the people. If we withdraw now, the Taleban will take over and everything we fought for will be lost. We are making progress, slowly, but it IS getting better. I may not agree with the reasons we went there in the first place, but regardless, we're there now. Canada has been bought into this situation, and in the true Canadian tradition, we MUST see it through. I WILL not let those people be sold out just because we have grown fat and secure, and are afraid of blood on our hands. REMEMBER WHAT YOU TAKE FOR GRANTED...

We have actually connected the NDP to increased attacks against our troops, (I voted NDP last time- mistake). When our troops are attacked, the NDP rally a cry for withdrawl and we find taleban with call history on thier phones from Canada. Basicaly saying the attacks are working, keep on targeting the Canadians and the will pull out.

They know they cannot defeat us militarily, so they are trying defeat us through YOU, the PUBLIC. The same public that would pull us out before the job is done, before the ridge is taken. (that was a little too romantic, I'm gagging myself here)

But you get the idea.

I do hate to see lives snuffed out... so young... but maybe, just maybe we can make a difference. I think we're doing that now. We'll see 20 or 30 years from now though. Don't pull out because of our troop deaths, WE will decide if it's worth the cost, it is a volunteer mission, and always has been. Casualties are a fact of it, we are all aware of this, and it comes as no suprise. We all leave our loved ones to try and help those people, for the most part, our troops care more about the local people that the people that would have us withdraw from the fight.

that's all for now, any questions and points, have at 'er.
I'll try and answer as best I can. I'm losing my train of thought here.

[CID]

Our job in the world isn't to shape civilization in other countries in our image. It's not the US's job either but they've been trying to do just that for a long time.

Should we be in Afghanistan in our current role? In my opinion no. The fight in Afghanistan can't be won because there isn't a level playing field. Canadian forces work under different rules than the clandestine opposing forces. We have "rules". They do not.

So what do you do with a society that is a potential threat to our country? Contain it. Use your force and technology to keep them in and technology and other military wares out.

I have learned that religion and women's rights in Afghanistan or Iran or the US for that matter is none of my business. These foreign countries with ancient cultures need to work this stuff out on their own. "Help" from the outside just makes things worse.

So we should get the hell out and shift our resources to containing these guys. We should also officially condemn the various actions of the US to impose their culture on other countries for economic gain. Not only is it vile but its just doomed to fail.

Believe it or not, we would all be safer if Saddam was still in power. Iraq won't be converted into "polite society" any time soon. Especially when you have so many people not willing to play by the rules.