Deadbeat pilots gumming up Transport's billing section

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:48 pm

Widow wrote:Fabulous Guido, you should send it to the press. Give them something interesting to play with.

I'd love to, Widow.... do you know any contacts? I don't know how excited they'll get...

Widow · Post by **Widow** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:00 pm

You could always try the folks who published the story to begin with ...

CTVNews: send a message through the feedback.

Globe and Mail: send a letter to the editor from here.

It might be worth mentioning the reasons WHY so many pilots are not paying (with reference to Preuss letter).

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:33 pm

screw them and the horse they rode in on

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:06 pm

Well done, Guido!!!

Also looking forward to the response.

Incidentally, more grist for your mill. When I called Collectcorp. the lady told me my account was already settled. When I asked how, she said TC had paid both ($110). Now, the second $55 had just been paid, within 30 days of invoice date, so why was TC giving away my payment that was not even overdue?

Morons. Absolute, stupid, incompetent, lackadaisical, idiotic morons!!!

Snagmaster E · Post by **Snagmaster E** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:25 pm

To everybody who posted before me - I apologize for not reading them all...

Deadbeat pilots? Oh my.

A couple of years ago I commented in a thread on the whole AIP/AIM change-over. I pasted emails I received from TC in said thread:

General Comments (Canada) [ Poll ] No more AIP?

They sent a collection Agency after me. When I get my new licenses that look like the passports, and I get a new piece of paper and my AIM in the mail, then I'll pay.

IT DOES NOT TAKE $55 TO CHANGE A DATE FROM 01-06-06 TO 01-06-07.

Sigh.

IMO.

Snagmaster E · Post by **Snagmaster E** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:26 pm

snaproll20 wrote:Well done, Guido!!!

Also looking forward to the response.

Incidentally, more grist for your mill. When I called Collectcorp. the lady told me my account was already settled. When I asked how, she said TC had paid both ($110). Now, the second $55 had just been paid, within 30 days of invoice date, so why was TC giving away my payment that was not even overdue?

Morons. Absolute, stupid, incompetent, lackadaisical, idiotic morons!!!

WOW.

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:33 pm

Got a preliminary reply - they're assigning the case to an "advisor" in their office to check into the facts. We'll see what happens. According to the privacy commissioner's office, we've got 30 days for them to reply, then they'll start twisting arms.... that goes if we don't like the answer we get as well.

CD · Post by CD » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:12 am

Guido wrote:Got a preliminary reply - they're assigning the case to an "advisor" in their office to check into the facts. We'll see what happens. According to the privacy commissioner's office, we've got 30 days for them to reply, then they'll start twisting arms.... that goes if we don't like the answer we get as well.

As I understand it, that's only true if you paid your $5 and submitted a formal request, rather than an e-mail:

Access to Information Request Form

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:07 am

Guido:

What you will be seeing is smoke and mirrors as you get caught up in the gears of government bureaucracy.

Their system of deny and stonewall is the only well run department they have.

If government handled the day to day running of their business as efficient as the way they cover up their mistakes and their missmanagement not to mention their corrupt members we would be the richest country on earth.

You should get in touch with me as I can maybe save you a lot of grief dealing with these creatures.

My experience with Robert Sincennes the guy that was in charge of Transports so called " Quality Assurance " took my breath away with the arrogance and dishonesty of his handling of my file.....maybe you and I could go track o'le Robert down in that zoo in Ottawa and part his hair to see if we could determine how old his lobotomy scar is?

tiggermoth · Post by **tiggermoth** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:42 am

Here's an idea for transport Canada, a lot of those 12 000 pilots would probably just willingly pay their $55, IF TRANSPORT SENT THEM A @$#%# BILL so that they were even aware they owed money!!!!!!! I got my medical done, paid the doctor his fee, and 2 weeks later got a certificate in the mail from TC. NO BILL, nothing indicating I owed $55. I know another pilot, who happens to be the mayor where I live, who got his medical renewed and 6 months later recieved a bill from a collection agency. This is ridiculous, its no wonder so many guys haven't paid there bill if first they didn't get one and them a $#^%$% collection agency starts pounding on the door. GEEZ, wht a screwed up situation.

CD · Post by CD » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:21 am

If you fill out this little form here, they are likely to be able to finally track you down. You can also log in to your account to pay bills, view invoices, print invoices, etc. at this site.

Alternatively, you could always call 'em direct:

The Civil Aviation Communication Centre

North America : 1-800-305-2059
Local Number : (613) 993-7284
Email : Services@tc.gc.ca
Fax : (613) 957-4208

Aunt Jemima · Post by **Aunt Jemima** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:33 pm

If TC can find people's addresses to send a certificate, why can't they find an address to send a bill, without them having to fill out those forms, CD?

CD · Post by CD » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:40 pm

Don't really know. Maybe the various databases don't talk to one another? Perhaps the folks at the end of that phone number might have an answer to that...

I do know that I have moved a couple or ten times in my career and submitting a change of address to TC has never been a high priority - unless I didn't receive something I was expecting. The initial distribution of the AIM was the last time and was discussed a bit here. However, only one of my bills has ever failed to find me...

stopsquawk · Post by **stopsquawk** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:52 am

Guido wrote:Last post for today... here's what I've sent:

Good day Linda,
I'm writing to you today on a matter of grave concern for approximately 12,000 civilian pilots in Canada. Supposedly these 12,000 pilots have not paid a fee related to "processing" their annual medicals, which are required for maintenance of their respective licenses. I myself received a letter recently that indicated this, but it wasn't from Transport Canada. Rather, it was from an organisation known as "CollectCorp". The letter indicated in threatening tones that I was in arrears on my account with Transport Canada and I was to pay this company, Collectcorp $110! Naturally I assumed this was a scam, and someone was just trying to dupe me out of money, but I did some research and found out that this company, Collectcorp, has actually been contracted by TC to collect on accounts that were not in good standing. This concerns me.
From my reading of the privacy act (which TC is a party to), government agencies are not allowed to give out private information (including addresses, credit information and such) to outside agencies; if this is the case, then Transport Canada has violated the act by doing just this... 12,000 times. I would like to know how Transport Canada plans to address this serious breach of privacy, and how my information shall be kept from being shared by the third party that already illegally has my information.
Thank you for your time, and I look forward to a timely response,
Guido

Great Letter Guido!!

Make sure you copy this letter to your MP, the Minister of Transport, and the Opposition Transport Critic, Joe Volpe.

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:49 pm

Just recieved a collection notice from CollectCorp. They say I owe them for an amount that balances out to 3 consecutive years of medicals. I checked the bank for cancelled checks and they were cashed by the reciever general. What a joke of a system.

Username#1 · Post by **Username#1** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:10 am

Got my second letter from Collect Corp with more interesting threats. I went into my local TC office for the second time to find out if they can come up with an invoice and date for what I owe so that I can pay. The firts time they took my name and numbers but never called me. This time when they called me back later in the day, they told me that I owe for last spring and that I need to pay collect corp directly. I told them that I would be happy to pay them (TC) directly when they come up with an invoice number but refuse to give collect corp a dime. Now I need to call TC in Vancouver since my local office is useless. Funny how the Vancouver phone number has 666 in it!!! This is becoming a lot of legwork on my part just to pay them $55.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:31 am

CD:

I, for one, would like to thank you for showing me the way to make it easy for me to give the government money.
Now, if I may impose on you further, please explain why I should, in fact, send the government any money for a medical.
You seem like a deeply concerned beuracrat. Ignore the issue of right and wrong and focus on how to take the money more easily.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:31 pm

My medicals are supposed to be paid for automatically, and I still got a bill saying I owe 55 bucks

Charge the guys that pay twice I guess

CD · Post by CD » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:19 pm

invertedattitude wrote:My medicals are supposed to be paid for automatically, and I still got a bill saying I owe 55 bucks

You mean that NavCan pays for the medical to maintain your pilot license? Was that a negotiated contract provision? There is no charge for the Cat 2 medical ya know - only pilots have the privilege

of paying the fee so I'm surprised that NavCan would agree to cover the medical fee associated with maintaining your Cat 1 or 3 medical for flying... I don't recall the fee being covered for me when I was there, but that was a few years ago now.

"21. Processing, by an employee of the Department of Transport, of a medical certificate in respect of a pilot licence or a pilot permit other than a student pilot permit -- $55"

CAR 104 Schedule IV

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:41 pm

Standards 422.03 Issue and Endorsement of Air Traffic Controller Licences and Ratings

(ii) Medical Fitness

An applicant shall have completed the medical examination requirements in accordance with the Personnel Licensing and Training Standards Respecting Medical Requirements and be in possession of a Category 1 or 2 Medical Certificate valid for an Air Traffic Controller Licence.

Navcanada pays for ATC (and FSS) medicals.

CD · Post by CD » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:40 pm

lilfssister wrote:Navcanada pays for ATC (and FSS) medicals.

No argument there. However, the $55 fee only applies to pilots - not ATC or FSS. invertedattitude is a pilot as well as a controller so I was wondering if the company is paying the $55 Transport Canada processing fee for his pilot medical as well...

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:42 pm

It's the same medical for ATC, ours is slightly different. They get the licesnse validation as well, we don't. SO I would assume there is a processing fee? Maybe not?

bbb · Post by **bbb** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:57 pm

A class 2 medical validates a PPL or RPP. Its simple, the higher category medical also validates the lower class of license, and checking the back of your medical certificate, you will find the validity periods. Note that CPL or ATPL may exercise the privileges of a PPL after their medical validity period expires, to a maximum validity period based on the PPL. Would have to do some searching of the CARs to see if that applies to PPL and RPP for the Class 2 medical after the 24/12 months (ie up to the 60/24 months), but can't see why they would switch the rules. The Class 4 medical is less restrictive than the Class 3, which is less restrictive than the Class 2, which is less restrictive than the Class 1.
Hard to tell with Transport, but would make sense the validity period would be extended, just like the ATPL and CPL.
The only reason I mention RPP here is that although a Class 4 medical is required, many maintain a Class 3. 2 subcategories of Class 4 medicals, totally self-declared, and self-declared, but signed by your family physician. (just to confuse things) The RPP requires the family physician signature, ultralight etc don't.

bbb · Post by **bbb** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:09 pm

to clarify my 1st post - a class of medical is simply that - a standard. the various licenses and permits all require a particular class of medical. note that lilfssister quoted CAR 422.03, which states that an Air Traffic Controller must possess a Class 1 or Class 2 medical. If the Air Traffic Controller is also a private or recreational (or ultralight or glider) pilot, their flying license is validated by their Class 2 or Class 1 medical. If an Air Traffic Controller is also a commercial or ATPL pilot, their Class 1 medical validates everything.
Its all entered into their database, and that for sure doesn't cost them $55! (although tracking down some of the CAME's for paperwork clarification consistantly could be a bit time-consuming)
I received a bill 4 years ago, months after the fact, filed my income tax before paying it, and Rev Canada deducted it off my refund.
Three years ago, same delay in bill, filed the taxes without paying it, figured they'd just take it off. Nope. Haven't heard a thing since, and no bill last year or this year. Maybe next year, when they have to change the date twice......[/i]

editted to state that Air Traffic Controllers also hold a license, and that the "License Validation Certificate" ie medical is required for their license validation, and therefore subject to the $55 fee.

CD · Post by CD » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:04 am

bbb wrote:editted to state that Air Traffic Controllers also hold a license, and that the "License Validation Certificate" ie medical is required for their license validation, and therefore subject to the $55 fee.

We've been through this before, but the only group of license holders in Canada that are subject to the $55 "processing fee" are pilots. If the air traffic controller also happens to be a pilot, well, that's why you're having to pay the fee:

CAR 104 Schedule IV

21. Processing, by an employee of the Department of Transport, of a medical certificate in respect of a pilot licence or a pilot permit other than a student pilot permit -- $55