New Air

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Arctic84
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Re: New Air

Post by Arctic84 »

Four1oh wrote:i wasn't stirring the pot, I really wanted to know who had 737 time, I didn't think many did, but I do know they were more than qualified.
I know. It was a fair question.

Once you get to a a certain experience level, I believe flying a similar type should not be a big deal. If you can fly a 727 well, will you fly a 737 well? I think so.

A bigger issue in my opinion was experience over the operating area at the start. A guy who has been into YLW a thousand times in an F28 or a Dash should be able to provide safe flight into there in a Boeing.

JMO
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YYCcrew
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Re: New Air

Post by YYCcrew »

Back to New Air... does anyone know what the latest story is?
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gulfan
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Re: New Air

Post by gulfan »

YYCcrew wrote:Back to New Air... does anyone know what the latest story is?
I drove by and I couldn't even find their office.
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Re: New Air

Post by gulfan »

Anyone hear anything else about this company?
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Re: New Air

Post by gulfan »

http://www.financialpost.com/magazine/s ... ?id=269856
Room for one more?
Can small cities support a new, low-cost airline? Tim Morgan, a WestJet founder, is betting on it
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FICU
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Re: New Air

Post by FICU »

complexintentions wrote:yeah I was scratching my head at that comment too. The senior guys at WestJet were extremely qualified, in fact the hiring standards for the first many years at WestJet were quite high at 5,000 hours. It's only been in the last few years they dropped the requirement to 4,000 hours and a Jazz PPC! (Well, it also helped during the TL Dark Ages if you came from CMA...)
I think he's referring to the F/O's hired with 5000 hours on floats and barely a sniff of IFR time. I have heard some pretty wild stories from very senior WJ guys about the problems they had when the minimum requirement was 5000 hours and a good buddy for a reference.
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Four1oh
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Re: New Air

Post by Four1oh »

FICU wrote:
complexintentions wrote:yeah I was scratching my head at that comment too. The senior guys at WestJet were extremely qualified, in fact the hiring standards for the first many years at WestJet were quite high at 5,000 hours. It's only been in the last few years they dropped the requirement to 4,000 hours and a Jazz PPC! (Well, it also helped during the TL Dark Ages if you came from CMA...)
I think he's referring to the F/O's hired with 5000 hours on floats and barely a sniff of IFR time. I have heard some pretty wild stories from very senior WJ guys about the problems they had when the minimum requirement was 5000 hours and a good buddy for a reference.
I guess you're talking about my post again. I was merely commenting on how few of the original guys had time on specific type, that's all. I won't suggest for a second they weren't qualified, nor experienced, nor lacking jet time from other jet jobs. I'm only pointing out that I don't think many had 737-200 time, which isn't a big deal either, but only an observation.

Does that explain enough? :?
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Four1oh
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Re: New Air

Post by Four1oh »

ANyhow, back on topic, IMO, I think Tim has no intention of 'staying under the radar' and flying his own 'niche'. I wish him the best on this venture, but, for my own selfish reasons, I also hope the powers that be at WJ and AC won't give him an inch.
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Four1oh
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Re: New Air

Post by Four1oh »

http://www.financialpost.com/magazine/s ... ?id=269856

Room for one more?

Can small cities support a new, low-cost airline? Tim Morgan, a WestJet founder, is betting on it

Scott Deveau, Financial Post Business Published: Tuesday, February 05, 2008

Tim Morgan spent nearly a decade toiling in the background at WestJet Airlines Ltd. He may have been one of the company's founders and its head of operations until 2005, but chief executive Clive Beddoe, whom Morgan had helped recruit back before the company's launch in 1996, was the face of the airline and its success. Today, however, Morgan isn't content to sit in the shadows. He's back in the airline business, attempting to raise $75 million to start a new Canadian carrier, tentatively called NewAir & Tours. And this time, thanks to the reputation he built at WestJet, Morgan is taking centre stage in the execution of the business plan.

Scheduled to launch by early fall, NewAir is currently little more than a proposal that Morgan, 53, is shopping to potential backers. The company hasn't leased any aircraft, it's still waiting for the Canadian Transportation Agency to grant its operating licence, and it has yet to decide on a final name. Still, Morgan's concept - a low-cost charter carrier serving the leisure travel market in small Canadian cities - is winning support. The first round of financing last fall, which raised $13 million, was oversubscribed, and attracted deep-pocketed investors like the Thomsons, Canada's richest family.

"We see an opportunity to get into middle Canada," says Morgan. "When I say middle Canada, I mean the Brandons, the Saskatoons, the Fort McMurrays and the Grand Prairies, and provide a service they can't get today." Tapping into trends like the aging of the baby boomers, a general upswing in leisure travel and the new prosperity of the western provinces, Morgan plans to create a Calgary-based carrier focused on charter services, flying to domestic holiday destinations during the summer and to hot spots like Las Vegas and Mexico through the winter. The plan relies on the belief that people in smaller cities will prefer a competitively priced "hometown airline" that flies out of local airports over travelling to airports in larger cities that are hours away.

The business model that NewAir is copying has already proven successful in the U.S. with Las Vegas-based Allegiant Air, which flies from smaller cities such as Bismark, N.D., and Bangor, Maine, to holiday destinations in Florida, Nevada and Arizona. But is there room for another carrier in Canada? Even the recent past is littered with examples of failure in both the low-cost and charter segments, with the collapse of carriers such as Jetsgo, CanJet and Harmony Airways. What's more, the Canadian airline industry may be flying into headwinds in 2008, just as NewAir is getting off the ground, with analysts issuing warnings about rising fuel costs and the fact that airline capacity is poised to outstrip demand for the first time in five years. Calgary-based aviation consultant Rick Erickson, however, gives Morgan's plan a fighting chance. "It's a new model. It certainly hasn't done in Canada before," he says. "And I'm astounded by the number of these secondary markets that are currently under-served."

Moreover, Erickson says the company has a competitive edge thanks to the team attached to the project, which includes WestJet's former head of marketing, William Lamberton, its former head of technical services, Gareth Davies, and Alan Mann, a former accounting executive. "You cut these guys and they will bleed jet fuel," Erickson says. "They're aviation guys through and through, especially Morgan."

According to Morgan, anyone who doubts there's enough demand in smaller cities to support his new carrier should look at the success of WestJet's Edmonton-Kelowna flight. When it launched in the 1990s, there was no service between the cities. WestJet's decision to put a plane on the route stimulated a market for what quickly became a popular connection. "At WestJet, we tried not to stand in the middle of the road. It's going to be the same thing with NewAir," Morgan says. "We are a travel and tour company, and we are going to do business in offbeat markets. Our intention is not to compete against Air Canada or WestJet. We are going to create our very own market."

When Morgan left WestJet more than two years ago, he cited "personal reasons" for his departure. These days, he's more forthcoming about events surrounding his decision, admitting that it had a lot to do with the direction the airline was heading and his own dealings with Beddoe. "I couldn't be there while the airline went left and I went right," Morgan says. "WestJet is becoming this premium economy carrier and my objective was always to be a cost-effective carrier."

Morgan, however, has no criticism of the role Beddoe played in the launch of the airline back in the mid-1990s and its future development. Although it was Morgan, as head of aviation firm Morgan Air Services, and co-founder Mark Hill, a Calgary real estate agent, who came up with the idea of bringing a low-cost carrier to Canada, the duo reached out to local real estate magnate Beddoe for his business savvy and his network of moneyed contacts. "Clive had a larger business background and was more recognizable," Morgan says. "He had a reputation, and for me to stand in a role like the one he played at the time would have been wrong. It may have put WestJet at a disadvantage."

A self-proclaimed "technical type," Morgan possesses what business associates have called a sort of "western practicality" back then that would have ruffled feathers among federal transport regulators and potential investors in central Canada. "I'm a bit of a redneck," says Morgan, who became interested in aviation as a youngster, watching crop dusters fly over the fields of the farm he grew up on. "I drive a pickup truck. I'm from Alberta. Sometimes when people tell me ‘no' it doesn't quite work."

These days, however, Morgan is demonstrating that he learned a few things during his tenure at WestJet. He's currently handling most of the dealings with government authorities - a process that includes licensing, credential checks and proof of financial backing, which tends be a hurdle for most aviation start-ups - and he hopes to have his company's flying licences from the Canadian Transportation Agency in place in the first few months of this year. "I've butted heads with a few guys in Ottawa, but in the end we ended up working well together," Morgan says.

The larger issue, of course, will be standing up to - and standing out from - the competition. Morgan acknowledges that Canada's airline industry can be cutthroat. For that reason, he plans to focus on serving western cities during the company's initial phases, where there are only two major tour operators - WestJet Vacations and Edmonton-based Fun Sun - compared to nine in central Canada. In addition, Morgan hopes that by sticking to smaller markets, and focusing initially on western Canada, NewAir will not provoke competitive backlashes from major carriers and tour operations, which operate out of larger centres.

In fact, Morgan says his firm would be more inclined to vacate a route than enter into a price war with a competitor. But even if the latter were to happen, he's not too worried. "We will be well capitalized, enough so that if a competitor were to sit on us, they'd have to sit on us for an entire year and not allow one person on to our planes. I doubt they'll do that, especially when we're not in their market."

But even these are issues for another day, says Morgan. His focus remains on raising money, dealing with transport regulators and looking forward to life in the pilot seat at NewAir. "I'm excited," Morgan says. "You know what I like most about it? I can look around and see all the people who are excited about NewAir, too."
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Four1oh
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Re: New Air

Post by Four1oh »

I don't think Tim gives Westjet Vacations enough credit. What he's proposing is exactly what WJ Vacations will be doing as we add more planes to the fleet.
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gulfan
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Re: New Air

Post by gulfan »

Any updates?
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Four1oh
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Re: New Air

Post by Four1oh »

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet ... iness/home

Fund with Thomson ties gives upstart airline a lift

BRENT JANG

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

February 26, 2008 at 12:00 AM EST

A fledgling carrier backed by six former WestJet Airlines Ltd. [WJA-T] executives and managers has attracted private equity money from Sherry Brydson, the niece of the late billionaire Ken Thomson, clearing the way for the Calgary-based upstart to launch flights this fall.

Toronto-based Westerkirk Capital Inc., a private firm that invests on behalf of the Brydson family, has provided more than $4.5-million, or 35 per cent, of the $13-million in seed capital raised by the airline, temporarily named NewAir & Tours Group.

Ms. Brydson is an entrepreneur, philanthropist and art collector who lives in Victoria.

Westerkirk, headed by lawyer James Lawson, already is the controlling shareholder in Victoria-based Viking Air Ltd., which makes aircraft parts, repairs planes and is preparing to restart production of the DHC-6 Twin Otter, a rugged 19-seat turboprop.
Tim Morgan, president of NewAir Tours, in his company’s hangar at the Calgary Airport

Tim Morgan, president of NewAir Tours, in his company’s hangar at the Calgary Airport
Related Articles

From the archives

* Former WestJet bosses hatch NewAir

The Globe and Mail

Blackmont Capital Inc. has been retained by NewAir to raise another $35-million to $75-million as the airline aims to take delivery of the first of three 130-seat McDonnell Douglas MD-80 jets by the end of the third quarter, NewAir chief executive officer Tim Morgan said in an interview.

“We're going to take one step at a time, one airplane at a time,” he said. By bundling flights with hotels and vacation packages, NewAir hopes to tap into pent-up demand in smaller Canadian cities. Mr. Morgan, 53, wants to avoid Toronto's Pearson International Airport, for instance, preferring to find business overlooked by Air Canada [AC.A-T] , WestJet Airlines Ltd. and tour operator Transat A.T. Inc. [TRZ.B-T]

NewAir isn't out to challenge Calgary-based WestJet, he said, but rather carve its own niche with charter flights from smaller Canadian cities to U.S. or Mexican vacation destinations in the winter and to larger Canadian centres in the summer.

“WestJet is into its own thing, they're doing a good job and more power to them,” Mr. Morgan said. “We don't want to compete against WestJet or Air Canada or Transat. We're going to find a place where we don't have to be in their face. The problem with the airline business is that everyone likes to beat on each other. We're trying not to do that.”

Mr. Morgan, a WestJet co-founder who stepped down in 2005 as executive vice-president of operations, is spearheading NewAir with help from three other former WestJet executives. William Lamberton is NewAir's vice-president of sales and marketing, Gareth Davies is in charge of locating aircraft and overseeing maintenance while Alan Mann is the chief financial officer.

Two other former WestJet managers have also joined the NewAir team: Lisa Puchala, who had been director of in-flight training and standards, and Michele Derry, who was director of operations control.

Mr. Davies has tracked down aircraft for potential lease, favouring used MD-87s.

NewAir is modelling itself after Allegiant Travel Co. [ALGT-Q] , a Las Vegas-based firm that runs a vacation division and low-cost airline with a fleet of 35 MD-80 series planes.

While Mr. Morgan said he is also considering Boeing 737s, “we're sticking with the MD-80 series until such time that we make an all-out change.”

Mr. Morgan declined to provide a shortlist of Canadian cities, saying he doesn't wish to get individual airports unduly excited about NewAir's potential arrival. “We don't want to overpromise and underdeliver,” he said. “I'm interested in any Canadian city that is underserved or has partial service. It's what I call middle Canada. You'll be able to fly direct from a small Canadian city to your destination.”

Industry experts say NewAir is likely to initially target places in Alberta such as Lethbridge and Red Deer, and B.C. communities such as Kamloops and Prince Rupert. Ontario cities such as Thunder Bay and Hamilton could be part of long-term plans.

Winter getaways would include Las Vegas, Phoenix and vacation spots in Florida such as Orlando, say observers, who expect NewAir to also fill the void in underserved summer routes in Canada.

Last week, Mr. Morgan visited White Plains, N.Y., a bustling centre for air charters and a meeting place for potential U.S. financing. NewAir's $13-million in seed money came from private equity firms such as the Brydson family's Westerkirk and other Canadian investors, including individuals with high net worth.

Mr. Morgan said he envisages Canadian investors supplying at least 75 per cent of total financing for NewAir, keeping within rules that limit foreign ownership of domestic carriers to 25 per cent of voting rights.

Mr. Mann said an initial public offering by NewAir is being contemplated. “An IPO is an option. It's definitely out there in what we would refer to as a liquidity event. We may also decide to keep it private.”

NewAir has developed a shortlist of potential names for the new company. Having watched Montreal-based Jetsgo Corp. halt operations in 2005 after 32 months of going head-to-head against Air Canada and WestJet, Mr. Mann said he's sure of one thing.

“The new name is definitely not going to be Jetsgo,” he said with a laugh.
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mulligan
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Re: New Air

Post by mulligan »

Does an MD-80 or MD-87 (not sure of the difference) have the legs to go, say, Lethbridge to Florida? I'm assuming Thunder Bay-Florida is doable. Any ex-Jetsgo types care to enlighten the rest of us?
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Re: New Air

Post by Troubleshot »

mulligan wrote:Does an MD-80 or MD-87 (not sure of the difference) have the legs to go, say, Lethbridge to Florida? I'm assuming Thunder Bay-Florida is doable. Any ex-Jetsgo types care to enlighten the rest of us?
just some data:

MD-81 - Max speed 925km/h (500kt), long range cruising speed 813km/h (440kt). Range with 155 passengers and reserves 2897km (1564nm).

MD-87 -Max speed 925km/h (500kt), long range cruising speed 811km/h (438kt). Range with 130 passengers and reserves 4393km (2372nm), or optionally 5248km (2833nm). Range with max fuel 5522km (2980nm), or optionally 6764km (3650nm),
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CAL
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Re: New Air

Post by CAL »

any news on when they may start looking for people?
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Four1oh
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Re: New Air

Post by Four1oh »

I wonder if there'll be any ex-jetsgo planes in the fleet! :D
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gulfan
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Re: New Air

Post by gulfan »

Four1oh wrote:I wonder if there'll be any ex-jetsgo planes in the fleet! :D
Looks like most of the DC-9-83's were exported to the states in July 2005 according to CCAR - Historical Search. Here's a fleet list:

http://www.contrailsphotography.com/fleets/jgo.html
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cabin
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Re: New Air

Post by cabin »

Does NewAir have a website up and running yet, and if so what is the web address.
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W5
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Re: New Air

Post by W5 »

http://www.naatgroup.com/

Not much there yet.
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ehbuddy
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Re: New Air

Post by ehbuddy »

It should be interesting to see how they will entice high timed guys to join them.
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Clint23
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Re: New Air

Post by Clint23 »

Will be more interesting to see how they get off the ground with $110/bbl oil.
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ehbuddy
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Re: New Air

Post by ehbuddy »

I agree and thats what oil is costing today..........just wait until summer!
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gulfan
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Re: New Air

Post by gulfan »

W5 wrote:http://www.naatgroup.com/

Not much there yet.
Actually they just updated it - lots more.
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Re: New Air

Post by invertedattitude »

Idea = Sound
Personnel = Well experienced and successful. Most people said WJA would never amount to anything....

That and they aren't trying to be a WJA or ACA
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ehbuddy
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Re: New Air

Post by ehbuddy »

Newair may not wish to interfere with either the Red Team or the Teal Team but once the junior boys start 'jumping ship' because they see that they may have a better chance of upgrading to something other than being career First Officer then things will start getting nasty.

Typically.........Air Canada or Jazz do not operate in places until YOU start to service it, then for some unknown reason they start to service it to until you cannot. Then all of a sudden they vanish too.

Once Newair starts to service a center and they are making some revenue doing it, do you think for a moment that the 'other guys' are not going to want a slice of that pie?

Aviation is the easiest of all industries to predict because every company that has failed has generally followed the same path.

Wardair had an excellent operating platform and had a very distinct niche market and did an excellent job doing that. When they tried to go domestic then the problems started. If Newair can find that niche market and stay within the bounds of its operating plan then I will say they will have a decent chance of suceeding.

Thats my 2 cents worth..........
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