xsbank, you know what, you're right. Every couple of months some dude from the internet takes exception to something that someone has said or whatever.. my bad... again, probably not the last time.

shimmydampner wrote:As for $150/day, well that works out to $4500/month which is certainly a fair wage.

I'm not picking on you Shim, but your math points out another thing that's glaringly wrong with our industry.

Yes, working 30 days a month at $150 a day does add up to $4500 a month.

But wait a minute, what's missing?

I know, I know, oooh oooh, pick me, pick me.

That's right Milhouse, no days off.

Not only is working all day, every day, all summer, illegal, more importantly, it's freakin' dangerous!

You need to be earning enough money when you do work in order to buy beer for the 2 days a week when you're not working.

There's no reason why 'days off' or 'weekends' should be considered bad words.

You gotta' fight, for your right, to parrrrrrrty!

BTW: Its a damper, or dampener you idiot. dampner is a word that does not exist smart guy. Seriously, have a hard time taking lumps from a guy who can't spell his own name... yeah..

Actually alot of parts companys refer to them as a dampeners. But who gives a Shit

Why don't you go compare dick sizes.

trey kule wrote:Twotter:

Let me see if I have the math right on this.

4 tows/60 mins (1 hr) and you logged .8 hours "taxi time"
4 tows @ 4 mins per tow.....air time..and well...seems like your logging more time than you should be

I am aware that this is legal. Not ethical in this situation.But legal.
Does no one understand the importance of actually logging their real time?

Ya know trey kule, I should have explained myself a little better, while you are entitled to log that because you will taxi for at least 1 minute on each end, the realistic amount would probably be just the amount of time you actually spent in the airplane if you are just doing one tow after another. Or actual time.. I was merely trying to show that it could be very benificial to a low timer who would like to build time..

Wow.. amazing how threads turn into gongshow arguments on pretty much every topic these days.

Twotter.

Forgive am old guy for getting cranky occassionaly. Probably not enought fiber in my diet or something. It is just that every month I see resume after resume that has cooked hours. Everything from outright falsifying time on a type (the most common two, BTW are tailwheel time and navajo time), PIC time logged when just riding around, and the exaggeration of times..ie. rounding up air time to the next point higher all the time, and then adding .3. So I get all snarky when I see someone demonstrate how to log more than an hour of flight time with less that about 15 minutes of actual flying

Uhm...got my first float job this summer (first flying job ever). Is $2500/month too much lower than I should have accepted . Room and board is paid and I got a promise of more money by the end of the summer, if I did good. I've never been good at dealing money, I'm just like my dad...too generous i guess. How do I approach the subject during the summer to get more wages? Also, I'm used to being treated like shit for low wages as I have been a labourer for my entire life in the construction industry. I know thats no excuse to accept a low wage but like I said I've never been good at money talk even if I know I deserve more. Aren't there unions for this sort of stuff?

$2500/mo + room and board is absolutely fair for your first float job.

SpArKkY1980 wrote:Uhm...got my first float job this summer (first flying job ever). Is $2500/month too much lower than I should have accepted . Room and board is paid and I got a promise of more money by the end of the summer, if I did good. I've never been good at dealing money, I'm just like my dad...too generous i guess. How do I approach the subject during the summer to get more wages? Also, I'm used to being treated like @#$! for low wages as I have been a labourer for my entire life in the construction industry. I know thats no excuse to accept a low wage but like I said I've never been good at money talk even if I know I deserve more. Aren't there unions for this sort of stuff?

I think you did alright

SpArKkY1980 wrote:Uhm...got my first float job this summer (first flying job ever). Is $2500/month too much lower than I should have accepted . Room and board is paid and I got a promise of more money by the end of the summer, if I did good. I've never been good at dealing money, I'm just like my dad...too generous i guess. How do I approach the subject during the summer to get more wages? Also, I'm used to being treated like @#$! for low wages as I have been a labourer for my entire life in the construction industry. I know thats no excuse to accept a low wage but like I said I've never been good at money talk even if I know I deserve more. Aren't there unions for this sort of stuff?

Not a bad start for a first time float pilot.

SpArKkY1980 wrote:I'm used to being treated like @#$! for low wages...

Good thing. Enjoy your summer, Troll.

Shimmy, Highsea, Hoov

You guys need to get out from under the rock more often. $10 per hour to fly an airplane is not "OK", or "fair".

$2500 per month is a disgrace and you guys that keep condoning it are hurting the whole industry. Ya, ya.. first year on floats and all that.. anyone who is sharp enough to secure the job should be sharp enough to know that you are going to work your ass of for 6 months and take home a grand total of $11 thousand bucks after tax for the season.

Pitiful that this is accepted in 2008. I made $3200 + room and board in 1998 as my first job on floats.

Wake up and realise that there is a whole big world outside of your bubble. Times have changed and $2500 per month is bullshit. Sorry muchachos.

floatman wrote:Shimmy, Highsea, Hoov

You guys need to get out from under the rock more often. $10 per hour to fly an airplane is not "OK", or "fair".

$2500 per month is a disgrace and you guys that keep condoning it are hurting the whole industry. Ya, ya.. first year on floats and all that.. anyone who is sharp enough to secure the job should be sharp enough to know that you are going to work your ass of for 6 months and take home a grand total of $11 thousand bucks after tax for the season.

Pitiful that this is accepted in 2008. I made $3200 + room and board in 1998 as my first job on floats.

Wake up and realise that there is a whole big world outside of your bubble. Times have changed and $2500 per month is bullshit. Sorry muchachos.

So, what would you say he is worth then?

Personally, I think $3500 ++ is an absolute starting point as a first year full time float pilot.

It lasts for 20-22 weeks and then you are back on the streets looking for something to keep you going till next year, when, if you busted your ass and managed not to break anything you get to do it again after a long, cold winter because you can't afford anything but the bare essentials on what you have made during the season.

What I don't understand is how people can rationalize $10 per hour to be a pilot. You wouldn't accept that to be a worker in a factory or a construction job or a sales position so why is there still this ongoing debate over shit wages for a young pilot... I'll tell you why... because people keep accepting it and being told that it's "fair" by people who don't have the coconuts to stand up and demand a fair wage for themselves.

There have been several threads started about unionizing and each time the poll gets more and more in favour of some sort of brotherhood, but until its formalized, guys will still go to work for operators paying $2500 to pilot "A" this year with the promise of more money etc. next year. Come next year, the operator goes and hires pilot "B" for the season for $2500 per month and perpetuates the problem, meanwhile pilot "A" has realized that he IS worth more than the shit wage he got last year and shops around until he gets something decent. The key is to cut out the 1 year of pain working for the stingy operator. If every single guy he interviewed demanded at least $3500 (or whatever the $ figure) he would start to see a benchmark forming and either pay up or close up shop if he can't afford to pay the freight. Dollars to doughnuts he has jacked his prices every year for the last 10 citing "increased overhead" and when you run a "FLY IN" service, the pilots are a big part of that and deserve to be compensated for their dedication to their profession and hard work provided to the operator.

$2500 per month is crap and you should move on. If he can't afford to pay you then what kind of maintenance is being done?

floatman wrote:Personally, I think $3500 ++ is an absolute starting point as a first year full time float pilot.

I agree that would be a great wage, But I really think you will not find any that would pay that for flying a small Cessna with room and board with just a float rating. I do think that the next year, he would be looking at the range.

Floatman, I agree with you.

However, I would like to point out that "donning" is spelled with two "n"s.

Thanks for the help melon-head.

You must be a blast at at a party.. do you correct grammer too? That must get the ladies all hot and bothered....

Grammar

yer a nob

Knob!!!

Are you doing this on purpose?

Doing wot? Are you loosing it?
You shood relax.

Now that's entertainment

QNN

If you can get a job with your limited experience - grab it at any pay.
I've been an operator for 25 years and I could not get insurance with your experience. An operator, if he was a gambler and prepared to give you a big break, should use you only for servicing the camps (no passnegers). Big gamble, hull coverage not valid. Liability, not also. Why are we doing this? Give some thought to an operators situation. Seems to me bad mouthing operators is fashionable.
Grab your chance