What exactly does this mean?

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cgzro
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by cgzro »

a) where the operation is to take place at an airport or an aerodrome, the airport manager or aerodrome operator have been made aware of the proposed operation and has no objection,
I was there and also had the permission from the airport manager I also have the same personal SFOC and I can assure you that there was no issue with that condition of the SFOC/CARS. I elected not to fly under my personal SFOC at that time due to the 15-20kt cross wind but now that I have more experience I have regularly flown low level aerobatics below a 1500' overcast with 3 miles vis with no problems, legal or otherwise.

A contest director has no authority with respect to a personal SFOC. The contest director controls the contest SFOC, which was not in effect at the time. Aerobatic contests have much stricter SFOC rules in particular the ceiling must be 500' above the aerobatic box meaning 4000' AGL.

I have held a contest director position and contest SFOC twice now and have had a personal SFOC for 8 years.

Basically there are three SFOC's related to aerobatics in canada.

Personal which is a contract between the pilot and the property owner or airport adminsitrator.. period.

Contest, which puts a contest director in charge of all the pilots flying and puts certain limits on ceiling but no limits on altitude or direction of flight.

Airshow, which puts an airshow director in charge of all the pilots flying and puts vastly different limits on ceiling and especially puts limits on direction of flight and types of manoeuvers.

With a personal SFOC you basically can go as low as you like as long as you don't violate any other CARS and have permission of the property owner/aerodrome operator.

Ok, back to the regularly scheduled fighting.
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cgzro
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by cgzro »

. . wrote:
Successful candidates will possess strong communication skills, both verbal and written. Experience working in a flight school environment is considered an asset. Candidates must also be in good standing with Transport Canada with a valid M1 license, be available some evenings and weekends and have the ability to work with minimal supervision.
It means that whoever wrote it is not experienced with writing job wanted ads. You have to be very careful to not violate somebodies rights to equal opportunity employment and especially careful not to express a desire to violate those rights in writing. To do otherwise opens you up to lawsuits from candidates who feel they were rejected but otherwise qualified. So the flight school is opening themselves to lawsuits (most likely naivley) and should probably change the wording to be more precise. Other than that I'd not read much into it. Better wording would be simply that you hold a valid M1 meet all the relevant CARS to excercise it and be insurable.
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Northern Skies
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Northern Skies »

Rockie wrote:Is it your contention that every pilot not currently battling TC over some issue is a sycophant? Is it also your contention that any company who wishes to hire a pilot not engaged in battle with TC practices autocratic management?
First question: Of course not. If we all bent over, they can still only f*ck us one at a time.

Second: Yes. It is my contention that a company who needs to smear all over their ad that their candidates need a halo around their TC file, probably does.
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Rockie
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Rockie »

cgzro wrote:
a) where the operation is to take place at an airport or an aerodrome, the airport manager or aerodrome operator have been made aware of the proposed operation and has no objection,
I was there and also had the permission from the airport manager I also have the same personal SFOC and I can assure you that there was no issue with that condition of the SFOC/CARS. I elected not to fly under my personal SFOC at that time due to the 15-20kt cross wind but now that I have more experience I have regularly flown low level aerobatics below a 1500' overcast with 3 miles vis with no problems, legal or otherwise.

A contest director has no authority with respect to a personal SFOC. The contest director controls the contest SFOC, which was not in effect at the time. Aerobatic contests have much stricter SFOC rules in particular the ceiling must be 500' above the aerobatic box meaning 4000' AGL.

I have held a contest director position and contest SFOC twice now and have had a personal SFOC for 8 years.

Basically there are three SFOC's related to aerobatics in canada.

Personal which is a contract between the pilot and the property owner or airport adminsitrator.. period.

Contest, which puts a contest director in charge of all the pilots flying and puts certain limits on ceiling but no limits on altitude or direction of flight.

Airshow, which puts an airshow director in charge of all the pilots flying and puts vastly different limits on ceiling and especially puts limits on direction of flight and types of manoeuvers.

With a personal SFOC you basically can go as low as you like as long as you don't violate any other CARS and have permission of the property owner/aerodrome operator.

Ok, back to the regularly scheduled fighting.
Good post. Thank you for all the information. There is obviously a lot of nuance and overlapping regulations at play that must be challenging for you guys to keep straight. It's clear to me now that no one at any time objected to Hedley's flight that day. He was in full compliance with all pertinent regulations and had the explicit approval of all concerned. Furthermore his flight was conducted exercising sound judgement at all times, and this was all a gross miscarriage of justice perpetrated by unethical government officials consumed with jealousy over Hedley's shiny airplanes and extraordinary talent.
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CID
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by CID »

As for the other internet coward that likes
to throw rocks and then hide in the shadows,
well, if I'm a "moron", why do I have an
Engineeering degree from Queen's University
with patents in the field of computer network
protocol design?
Excellent question. Remember however I didn't mention any names. What makes you think I was talking about you? By the way, did you know that Jean Chretien has a law degree from Université Laval?
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cgzro
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by cgzro »

Good post. Thank you for all the information. There is obviously a lot of nuance and overlapping regulations at play that must be challenging for you guys to keep straight. It's clear to me now that no one at any time objected to Hedley's flight that day. He was in full compliance with all pertinent regulations and had the explicit approval of all concerned. Furthermore his flight was conducted exercising sound judgement at all times, and this was all a gross miscarriage of justice perpetrated by unethical government officials consumed with jealousy over Hedley's shiny airplanes and extraordinary talent.
I was simply correcting an incorrect post of the role of the different individuals when aerobatics are performed at low level. If you read all the public records on this event you will see that there are many ways you can get in trouble depending on how certain regs are interpreted and in fact many shifting angles were tried. For example 'open air assembly of persons', 'built up area', 'dangerous and reckless', are all subject to interpretation and can mean different things on different days. So yes, its hard to stay totally within the regs when the interpretation can shift on you suddenly. The only safe thing is not to let anybody see you do aerobatics, but unfortunately that is not the point usually.
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Check Pilot
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Check Pilot »

Bump - fer fun - this is a classic TC vs industry one.
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Hedley
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Hedley »

The only safe thing is not to let anybody see you do aerobatics
True. Completely, totally bizarre, but very true.

It all comes down to CAR 602.01, which is the "one size fits
all" regulation. See, there are an awful lot of regulations, but
if you fly an airplane, and somebody doesn't like how you
did it (or simply doesn't like you), well, time to trot out the
very subjective CAR 602.01 which says that you shouldn't
be reckless or negligent when flying an airplane.

Now, you don't need to damage property or injure anyone
to be labelled reckless or negligent - that would be too simple,
and too objective.

By case law, something negligent is something that a
"prudent" person wouldn't do, which certainly leaves
lots and lots of room for individual interpretation.

Pretty well everyone knows that anytime you are 100
feet in the air, or going 100 mph, if something goes
wrong (and it surely can), it's gonna hurt.

So, would a "prudent" person even step foot in an
airplane? Subjectively, you could quite reasonably
argue "no".

But let's say you disagree with the above. Ok,
fair enough. Is it prudent to go the next step
and fly aerobatics? Some people would argue
no, a prudent person would not fly aerobatics.

Some people would disagree, and think that
a prudent person can still fly aerobatics. Ok,
what about doing it at low altitude? Would
a prudent person do that? Some people
would argue no.

But other people would argue yes. So let's
take it a step further. Would a prudent
person fly aerobatics at low altitude in
formation? Some people would argue no.

Other people would argue yes. Ok, so let's
take it a step further. Would a prudent person
fly aerobatics at low altitude in formation
inverted? Some people would argue no.

And some people would argue yes.

As, you can see, the wonderfully subjective
602.01 "reckless and/or negligent" can be
a bit tricky to sort out.

As far as my insane experience went ... at
various times, Transport argued flight visibility,
but their own witnesses said it was over 3
miles at the time, when they departed VFR
cross-country. Transport then argued that
6 people on the ramp was an "open air assembly
of persons" which I thought was a tad silly.

But where it got really ridiculous was when
Transport argued that I had less than 3 miles
flight visibility when I was in a vertical downline,
say after a hammerhead, because flight visibility
is defined in CAR 101.01(1) as forward vis out
the front cockpit. Amazing, the Tribunal agreed
with that bizarre interpretation of the regs, and
briefly outlawed by case law, all aerobatics in
Canada below 18,000 feet, until I could get that
silliness overturned in a higher court.

It got even weirder when I argued the applicability
of double jeopardy at the Federal Court of Appeals.

Transport argued that double jeopardy - multiple
punishments for the same offense - only applied
to criminal law, not administrative law. Transport
argued that they could punish me as much as they
wanted, for as long as they wanted, for whatever
offense I might or might not have committed at
Hanover that day.

I argued to the 3 judges in Federal Court that double
jeopardy certainly does apply to administrative law,
otherwise a policeman that didn't like black men could
give a black guy 100 speeding tickets for the same
offense, which I didn't think was reasonable.

Unfortunately the Federal Court of Appeals bought
Transport's reasoning, and once again, I have
unwillingly created a very very bad precedent
in Canadian law, which you all have to suffer
under. Sorry about that. You really don't want
to know about the other precedent in Canadian
law that I unwillingly participated in.

At the previous level (Federal Court) the judge
wasn't quite such a fan of Transport's shenanigans
in this case, and issued a court order, "enjoining"
the Minister from any further punishment in this
case, which Transport simply ignores. Transport
considers itself above a measly Federal Court
order, much like a policeman considers traffic
law - it doesn't apply to him.

I am no angel, but compared to some of the
characters at Transport, I'm surely a choir boy! :wink:
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Tim
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Tim »

I hate avcanada threads. I hate the moderators that stir the pot. I hate the posters who say the same shit over and over again on any post they can. I hate that a legitimate question that starts a thread, turns into the same old opinionated and generally uneducated nonsense. I hate that the internet makes people dick heads. I hate that this thread was created specifically to cause shit but a person who consistantly causes shit, and that he is only one of many. Good advice on here? Occaisional, but you hurt your eyes reading through all the garbage. trying to find it. Maybe avcanada should create a few new forums. One of ., one for hedley, one for doc, one for widow, one for stl, one for the people who want to act like they know everything about them but don't, and one for people that are just going to answer questions or post relavent information. What are these people like as pilots? I don't know. But I can't stand the type of people they are. I hate avcanada threads.
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Mitch Cronin
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Mitch Cronin »

It's alright Tim.... They make happy pills for that.

...sorry for my contributions....
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Siddley Hawker »

They make happy pills for that.
Yeah, but are they approved by Transport Canada? :D
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Mitch Cronin
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Mitch Cronin »

8) Excellent question! ...
:mrgreen:
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Hedley »

I hate avcanada threads
Then why read them? Is someone forcing
you to sit down at your computer, start a
browser, and click on this URL?

. started this thread. If you don't
like him so much, why did you click on
it, and then read all 3 pages of it?
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Flybabe
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Flybabe »

Northern Skies wrote:When consideration for the concerns of employees is discarded, it is easier to have autocratic management in a company full of "yes" men.
I don't like that comment. I've seen it in real life. Nothing like the "yes men" that will do whatever they're asked and the ones that actually use their heads and think are penalized.

Don't have an opinion, now - Big Brother is watching :wink:
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by 2R »

rothflmao "i hate etc .............. but i read it anyway" hahahahahahahahaahahahahaahahaahhaahahhahahahahahaaa

That is one of the best punchlines i have read in a long time :smt040 :smt040 :smt040


welcome to avcrack
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Chuck Ellsworth »

I hate that this thread was created specifically to cause shit but a person who consistantly causes shit, and that he is only one of many.
Sorry you take this thread in that light Tim.

Sorry I asked a question that has no validity for you.

Now that I have asked the question and you have read it and think it is only causing shit maybe you could explain to me how " being in good standing with Transport Canada " can be a prerequisite for employment in aviation?

Can an employer just call or write to TC and ask is Tim in good standing with TC?

And if so what does being in good standing entail?
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The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.

After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by The Other Kind »

I've been reluctant to post in this thread, but I've truly enjoyed reading the tripe posted by our resident Pitts pilot. It's like watching a car wreck, you shouldn't look but just can't avert your eyes.

.,

Why do you APPEAR to align yourself with him??? From what I know about your case with TCCA and what he has posted about his case......let's just say that there are VAST differences...
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Rockie »

Hedley

The weather that day was so marginal most of your fellow pilots thought there was less than the required visibility and you flew into cloud doing your aerobatic routine. There were only six people on the ground according to you, and the competition that you were there for had been scrubbed. Most of your peers barring one notable exception thought you were crazy to be flying aerobatics. In fact they thought it was such a bad idea they testified against you when the inevitable and completely predictable legal proceedings occurred.

Why did you do it then? What made you get in your plane and fly an aerobatic routine when there were so many reasons not to?
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Chuck Ellsworth »

.,

Why do you APPEAR to align yourself with him??? From what I know about your case with TCCA and what he has posted about his case......let's just say that there are VAST differences.
The Other Kind:

You have just asked a very legitimate question which I must clearly address.

First off I do not know anymore about Hedley than any other poster on Avcanada.

I can easily see where it would appear to align myself with Hedley and in the context of him being discriminated against by TC and punished after the fact for his conviction I sure would be giving Hedley the benefit of the doubt.

Our two cases are very different for sure, from reading the transcripts of Hedleys case he was the transgressor and the record shows that he was given due process.

The conviction and the grounds for said conviction are a separate issue from his claims of discrimination after the fact.

Now to my case, it was several top level management people in TCCA who had chosen to protect an inspector who was found to have been guilty of the charges I had brought against him including harrassment.

The TCCA management were also found guilty of all charges against them in my case and were found to have denied me due process, this is not just an opinion on my part it is a matter of record.

Now for the reason I am able to believe Hedleys claim of ongoing discrimination after the fact.

On two occasions after my case having been settled and the verdict being in my favor TCCA did in fact cause me loss of business and money by telling my overseas clients who had come to Canada that they would not accept any flight training given by me. In the first instance the TC inspector even gave my client the names of several FTU's where he could get the training.....it was a real disaster because as soon as my client left the TC office he called me and said he just could not chance losing all that time and money so he went back to Scotland.

I immediately called the RDG who had been in charge of my file and he very quickly checked into the facts and wrote two letters of apology one to me and one to my client in Scotland for the illegal act of the TCCA inspector.

Within one month the very same thing happened with another client, this time from England.

It was useless for me to go any further with trying to fight TCCA because I was never going to win so I just never ever flew another minute as a working pilot since that time in Canada.

That was about five years ago when I finally gave up and have worked overseas ever since.....and was very sucessful to the point that I was offered a job as an adviser to the Greek HCAA and accepted the offer, not because I needed the work but because it gives me great pleasure to be accepted as a professional in a foreign country after being denied the right to work in my own Country.

My one regret with TCCA is not using my aboriginal status as an Indian to fight them, big mistake on my part because the white side of my status worked against me.

On the other hand it was the correct decision because it gave me the opportunity to expose just how corrupt the regulator is at the top.

So there is why I give Hedley the benefit of the doubt...and of course Hedley has never stolen anything from me but TCCA has.
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The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.

After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Strega »

After recent dealings with the FAA ( on Fri ), I find it shameful that we tolerate the BS that TCCA gives us.

The requirement to be in "good standing" with TCCA, comes from some "sheep" that cant think on his own, and needs to be told how and why to do everything. My guess is hes a "yes man" to Transport. Heaven forbid that someone in Canada can actually make a decision on their own, without government intervention.
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Hedley »

you flew into cloud doing your aerobatic routine
As usual for you Rockie, what complete and utter nonsense.

I didn't fly aerobatics in cloud. If I had attempted to do so, I
surely would have become disoriented and spun out.

Do you even have a pilot's licence? People can't even fly
straight and level in cloud without gyros, and there are
no gyros in the Pitts. Are you even aware of this?

I can assure you that I am no superman - I cannot fly
controlled aerobatics in cloud without gyros - of which
there are none in the Pitts.

During the trial, I pointed out that depth perception
only functions out to around 20 feet. Beyond that,
people judge distance with visual cues. And when
an airplane disappears behind a cloud, the people at
a distance cannot tell if the airplane flew into the
cloud, or behind it.

But because there are no gyros in the Pitts, and
I never lost control, and I am not a superman,
obviously I didn't fly aerobatics in cloud.

The people on the ground that day obviously
experienced quite an illusion due to the broken
cloud layer, not unlike someone who sees a magician
perform a trick. I can assure you that not
everything that you see a magician perform,
actually occurs :roll:

Transport's witnesses were quite a collection.

One of them testified that he wasn't a pilot,
and he thought my flight was great, but that
he was coached on his testimony, and now
thought it was dangerous :shock:

He even put that in his written statement.

You weren't there, Rockie, and as usual your
complete ignorance of a subject isn't stopping
you from having a strong opinion on a subject.

Do you work at Transport?

I was there. Peter Ashwood-Smith was there.
Both of us concluded that the weather was
within the limits specified by the Canadian
Aviation Regulations and the Special Flight
Operations Certificate for the proposed
operation. No damage to property or
harm to persons occurred during the flight.

Some people liked the flight, Rockie, and
some people didn't. Before the flight, the
contest director had no problem with the
weather conditions. He gave me the frigging
thumbs up before my flight. But after the
flight, he changed his story completely.

When I had the Regional Director of Enforcement
on the stand at the Tribunal, I asked him why
he went for 90 days on the 602.01 charge
when the policy manual says maximum 30,
especially since there was no damage to
persons or property during the flight - there
was no objective evidence, only very subjective
opinions.

His reply? "I don't like you".

I was blown away. Check the transcript.

Rockie, I am no angel, but compared to
some of the people at Transport, I surely
qualify as a choir boy.
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Cat Driver »

The Other Kind:

I have to be fair when replying to questions and I would like to expand on your post where you asked about my siding with Hedley.

You said:

I've been reluctant to post in this thread, but I've truly enjoyed reading the tripe posted by our resident Pitts pilot. It's like watching a car wreck, you shouldn't look but just can't avert your eyes.
Headley said:
When I had the Regional Director of Enforcement
on the stand at the Tribunal, I asked him why
he went for 90 days on the 602.01 charge
when the policy manual says maximum 30,
especially since there was no damage to
persons or property during the flight - there
was no objective evidence, only very subjective
opinions.

His reply? "I don't like you"
.

Their policy manual is not worth the paper it is written on.

They can and do make decisions based on their own personal agenda and are quite brazen when questioned on why they are not following their own policies, even more important they can and do disregard the CAR's if it suits their agenda.

In my case Dave Nowzek the Regional Director Civil Aviation not only violated all the above he looked my lawyer straight in the eyes and told him he could make any decision he wanted to.

My lawyer had pointed out to Dave that he was going against his own written agreement that he had made prior to the meeting we were having ordered by the DGCA.......

....so I can 100% believe what Hedley has said because I can prove it happened to me.

There can be no way on this green earth that we can have a truly functional interaction between us in industry and the regulator if their top management are dishonest and free to abuse the power of the office they hold.

Accountability has to be equal for both parties.
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by BoostedNihilist »

.
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Rockie »

Strega wrote:The requirement to be in "good standing" with TCCA, comes from some "sheep" that cant think on his own, and needs to be told how and why to do everything. My guess is hes a "yes man" to Transport. Heaven forbid that someone in Canada can actually make a decision on their own, without government intervention.
If I were hiring a truck driver I would want to know if he had a poor driving record, and that there were no outstanding issues that might effect his licence and therefore his ability to perform his job. And I would be remiss if I didn't check into those things before hiring him.

If I were hiring a pilot I would want to know if he had a poor flying record, and that there were no outstanding issues that might effect his licence and therefore his ability to perform his job. And I would be remiss if I didn't check into those things before hiring him.

If I was interviewing someone with the kind of chip on their shoulder you're carrying around you would simply not get the job. Why would I take that chance?
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Re: What exactly does this mean?

Post by Rockie »

Hedley wrote:
you flew into cloud doing your aerobatic routine
As usual for you Rockie, what complete and utter nonsense.

I didn't fly aerobatics in cloud. If I had attempted to do so, I
surely would have become disoriented and spun out.

Do you even have a pilot's licence? People can't even fly
straight and level in cloud without gyros, and there are
no gyros in the Pitts. Are you even aware of this?

I can assure you that I am no superman - I cannot fly
controlled aerobatics in cloud without gyros - of which
there are none in the Pitts.

During the trial, I pointed out that depth perception
only functions out to around 20 feet. Beyond that,
people judge distance with visual cues. And when
an airplane disappears behind a cloud, the people at
a distance cannot tell if the airplane flew into the
cloud, or behind it.

But because there are no gyros in the Pitts, and
I never lost control, and I am not a superman,
obviously I didn't fly aerobatics in cloud.

The people on the ground that day obviously
experienced quite an illusion due to the broken
cloud layer, not unlike someone who sees a magician
perform a trick. I can assure you that not
everything that you see a magician perform,
actually occurs :roll:
A couple of things here. One is you at the very least acknowledge you were performing aerobatics above a broken cloud layer with reference to the ground. What's with that? The other is that no one seems to believe you didn't enter cloud. You are also saying that despite your detailed and pointless lessons on advanced aerobatics you are so inept that if for example you inadvertently entered cloud for a few seconds at the top of a loop you would lose control of your aircraft. If that's the case then you really, REALLY shouldn't have been flying aerobatics in those weather conditions.

At the bottom of .'s posts is one of aviations wisest truisms:

"You can learn to fly in hours, it takes years to learn when not to".

I'll ask again what made you get in your plane and do an aerobatic display that day when there were so many reasons not to? This is your chance to explain.
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