Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

[Stick-Shaker]

I came from an instructor background, and found myself in the bush. To be honest I have come across a few bush drivers that have tried to kill me, and some that were far better pilots than I. Former instructors were all mainly well organized and disciplined, they can speak on the radio in an IFR environment, and fly the dials well.

Both backgrounds bring something to the table, but I think flying the bush can be more "fun" and something that you will always look back on with great memories.

[North Shore]

If . is such a crappy instructor compared to the
gods here, why does he earn 10x as much for his
instruction as the gods?

If my info is correct, Cat is instructing people how to fly Cansos. There are a few reasons, mostly related to supply and demand, for that being a much more lucrative gig (perhaps even 10x as much) than some poor 350hr guy flogging around the circuit in the right seat of a 152. If the world was beating a path to Cat's door to ask him to teach ab-initio for $200/hr istructor fee, then the financial argument makes sense; if not, it's simply a willy-waving red herring.

the so called laws of learning as TC used to call them are interesting ideas to read and maybe take into consideration, however teaching ab-inition flying does not require a doctorate in psychiatry, all you really need is common sense and the ability to demonstrate things and instill confidence in the student to mimic what you have just demonstrated....then know when they have it and move on to the next lesson.

Actually, Cat, the psychobabble that you are decrying is simply the theory behind what makes a good instructor. I would suspect that, if you (Cat) are instructing people successfully, then you are applying those laws without even knowing it. However, I'd further suspect that is because you've had many years of life experience to bring to bear on the subject. If I were in my early 20's (is that a fair assumption of the average age of Canadian flight instructors?), I might not have that experience - and thus have to be taught it. A fair analogy, I think, is Orville and Wilbur (not trying to draw any age parallels here ) I'm sure that they had no idea about the physics equations behind the Flyer - but it worked! People came along later, filled in all of the theory that O&W already knew intuitively, and used that theory to deepen everyone's understanding of the subject.

The other thing about how Flight Instruction is now handled and taught, is that you need some sort of system for grading the instructor candidates, and making sure that each one is up to the required standard. Thus the basics of the learning factors, etc.. If you didn't have that system, then how would you ensure a consistent standard? ( I don't really want to open the can of worms here of how high/low that standard is set!)

Not trying to be critical, or pick sides here...just a few observations.

[Cat Driver]

Thanks for pointing all that stuff out to me North Shore, I had no idea that was the way it works......you see when I was an instructor we didn't have any standards and our instructors ratings were just handed out to us with no need to know anything about how to teach.

Same when I owned a flying school, I had no idea about all that stuff because all I had to do was check that my employees had their instructors ratings and that guaranteed they had been trained to meet the standard.

If my info is correct, Cat is instructing people how to fly Cansos. There are a few reasons, mostly related to supply and demand, for that being a much more lucrative gig

By the way I do teach in more than Canso's as you Canadians call a Catalina.

When I do other types of flying my rate usually is higher....then again most of my flying is in the specialized field of aviation.

If the world was beating a path to Cat's door to ask him to teach ab-initio for $200/hr istructor fee, then the financial argument makes sense; if not, it's simply a willy-waving red herring.

willy-waving huh? want to know something, I truly don't give a fu.k what you think for the simple reason you are not the one paying me.

Here is some free advice, if you want to earn decent money you find a niche area of flying that pays top dollar, I find the best paying job out there is flying for the movie industry.

So there you go, pick up the phone and tell them you want to fly for them.

Nothing to it.

[sez]

looks like this thread will be on first page for a very very long time....

[North Shore]

Cat, I'm not quite sure why you are getting all hot under the collar here, as I wasn't trying to take a shot at you.

The original quote was:

If . is such a crappy instructor compared to the
gods here, why does he earn 10x as much for his
instruction as the gods?

Simple economics - lots of 172 guys, few people specialized in Catalinas etc.., but not the apples-to-apples, 172 to 172 comparison being implied in the quote.

Here is some free advice, if you want to earn decent money you find a niche area of flying that pays top dollar

Thanks. I will.

[Cat Driver]

looks like this thread will be on first page for a very very long time....

Naw sez, it will end quite soon so enjoy it while it lasts.

Once this is finished the flight training forum can go back to normal and there will be no negativity because they can stroke each other with warm fuzzies and feel good stuff.

I'll just have to find some other form of entertainment.

[Wacko]

I say at least 7 pages.... I can't argue either way for Chucks abilities as an instructor or pilot but I can vouch for his ability to turn any thread into a controversy

[Cat Driver]

Wacko, you are missing the point.

This thread is about my being an instructor basher.

Therefore it stands to reason that I am not really an instructor.

[sez]

Naw sez, it will end quite soon so enjoy it while it lasts.

Once this is finished the flight training forum can go back to normal and there will be no negativity because they can stroke each other with warm fuzzies and feel good stuff.

I'll just have to find some other form of entertainment.

Actually Cat I'm already enjoying...
Cat, under ths thread there are 10 people at most who are talking negatively about you.
So, not my bussines but I can not comprehend why you are talking about not writing on ths forum.
thus far, you are being very contributing for whom are seeking useful informations...

[Cat Driver]

sez, if you want my advice or opinion on something to do with flying all you need to do is PM me.

When I get a chance I will try and give you an answer....that way it will be easier because it will be one on one.

. E.

[TC Guy]

And another plus that this may bring with me out of the mix here after this thread runs its self out which will be soon, TC Guy can come back and be among admirers who won't insult him.

Naw, Cat... I learn some and chuckle some at your posts -- I always find them interesting. I hope you continue to post in this forum.

As for me... I just found it counter-productive to hold a discussion with you as you did not seem to be able participate in a discussion without it degenerating into a "bash-fest".

You are unable or unwilling to rationally discuss things with me. I get it. Took me a while (I am a TC Inspector, after all)...

-Guy

[Cat Driver]

You are unable or unwilling to rationally discuss things with me. I get it. Took me a while (I am a TC Inspector, after all)...

There are other principals in this industry besides the principals ( Laws )of learning or whatever you call them now in your instructors guide TC Guy.

There is also the principal of cause and effect.

You post under the umbrella of TCCA, therefore I identify you with the group who took away my " right " to work in the sector of flying that I chose in Canada.

The effect of what you call " bashing " for me it is not bashing it is nothing more or less than my revulsion for your employer.

Remember I did nothing against the system to deserve being banned from working in the country I am a citizen of.

What I was guilty of was following the instructions in CAR's when I asked for help from TCCA to correct a problem TCCA had with a rogue inspector.

And that TC Guy is the root problem I have with you....you represent a system that protects those who are guilty of abuse of power by attacking the abused.

So if you have a real problem with my attitude all you need do to show the troops here that you are their friend is to prove my allegations to be false.

Otherwise they may connect the dots and figure out if TC can screw one member of the aviation community they could be next.

It is really that simple TC Guy.

[Hedley]

Not everyone loves you and I as much as they really should, .

[Cat Driver]

Unfortunately Hedley this has nothing to do with love it is a matter of a regulator with no moral compass led by moral degenerates at the top.

I couldn't care less what some anonymous poster who calls himself TC Guy thinks about me for the simple reason he does not exist in my world.

If he was really genuinely concerned he would not be posting behind a made up name, he would give his opinions like we do.....and not from under the rock of anonymity.

[trey kule]

Ah Hedley, I think you are all turned around on this.

Who could not love and respect someone who continually posts how much they get paid an hour.....and who could not love and respect someone who continually explains so clearly to everyone how much experience they have...

And just what does TC guy bring to the table? An impartial informed opinion. A rather balanced view of his employer
Pfffft. How can someone respect that when they can enjoy continual TC and Instructor putdowns.

I suspect that many of the new (and older, experienced pilots) give Cat all the respect he so rightfully deserves.

[xsbank]

Here ., you can use this - I sent it to him on another thread but he ignored it so I've got it handy on my desktop in case he gets in again. You can use it as much as you'd like.

To T.K.:

[Cat Driver]

I'm not to sure exactly where T K really sits on some of this stuff.

There was a time when he was not exactly enamoured of TCCA.

[TC Guy]

There was a time when he was not exactly enamoured of TCCA.

A great deal of the time I am not exactly enamoured with the TCCA. I would be surprised if anyone was!

It is the system we have, and I work within it to help as best I can, and even improve it when given the chance.

-Guy

[Cat Driver]

A great deal of the time I am not exactly enamoured with the TCCA. I would be surprised if anyone was!

It is the system we have, and I work within it to help as best I can, and even improve it when given the chance.

For that you deserve credit, however as these bureaucracies grow ever bigger they also become more resistant to being changed from the bottom up.

Unless you are in the very top management you are very unlikely to bring about change in the system its self, but for sure you can make it far, far better for your individual clients.

I feel that having worked for decades within the system and directly for the system I got to know the top management very well. Well enough I can describe several of their top management as moral degenerates without fear that they will take me to court to defend my opinion...even though I would be delighted to defend my opinion with their own documentation.

I know the system well enough to have bet my company on the fact that the system will grind anyone into dust if you try and take on the very top management when you find they are operating outside of their legal envelope.

I did and they did exactly that because they are a law unto their own......a morally corrupt law unto their own.

Anyhow TC Guy I hope you can help as many as you can because it will make their life easier.

Best you and I just leave it at that because it serves no useful purpose for us to go any further with this and you can take it to the bank I will not get involved in any way in this flight training forum once this thread is finished.

I really have very little in common with the flight training industry today, in fact the gap between me and the FTU sector is far to wide to even try and bridge.

So once again if you can make life better for your clients that is something you can take personal pride in....good luck and good bye.

. ..

[Bruce Gorle]

Well said .. I get tired of all these posts with everyone hiding behind there posting names. If TC guy and BPF and all the others bashing you had any balls they would use there given names. Although I don't necessarily agree with all you said about the new crop of Instructors as a career Instructor I still feel the best teacher for the new PPL is a class IV. The CPL definitely needs someone with more experience but that seems difficult at present, but will change soon. I always remember our trip in my PA30 twin Comanche when on the first Takeoff you yarded the thing in the air pulled up the gear below blue line and we slowly accelerated and climbed away. I said thats not how I wanted to see things done your reply that how you did in a DC F------3. My reply well this isn't a DCF------3 its a Twin Comanche and it's my twin Comanche and you will fly it my way our can't have it for you IFR ride. The second circuit was perfect and over to YVR you went for the ride. My point all Instructors have different methods and techniques I knew how to deal with you and I hope we have been friends since.
Bruce

[TC Guy]

If TC guy and BPF and all the others bashing you had any balls they would use there given names.

Hello, Bruce.

Giving my name here would not be in my best ineterest, as I am sure you can understand.

I don't believe I have ever "bashed" Mr. .. I have disagreed with him on many occasions, but that is my right -- it is a forum -- but I have always tried to communicate with respect. If I have offended anyone, I apologize, as it was not my intention.

-Guy

[jetflightinstructor]

I always remember our trip in my PA30 twin Comanche when on the first Takeoff you yarded the thing in the air pulled up the gear below blue line and we slowly accelerated and climbed away.

What is the problem with retracting the gear below blue line?
Especially on a short runway, a small twin engine after rotate when airborn with the gear down and a propeller windmilling wouldn' t have enough power to climb. The result would be lost of control, and a crash.
Unless a decision point has been established clearly (on a long runway) and respected (in a decision point situation, the bad habit is to retract the gear really to late, the decision point being not easy to evaluate), the safest procedure is postive climb : gear up. (positive climb on the altimeter, positive rate is read on the VSI, but it has 6 second delay.

There is a maximum speed to retract the gear, never heard about a minimum speed.

Could somebody explain to me why retracting the gear after blue line is safest than below blue line?

we slowly accelerated and climbed away

With the gear down do you think you would have accelerated faster?

My opinion: when airborn, safest to make a circuit, with the least drag possible, if an engine failure occurs, than trying to get the machine back on the ground.

[Cat Driver]

Thanks for the support Bruce, both you and your father have been two of the best friends I have had in aviation and your school has always been one of the best in the business......

.......now even though we are the best of friends I must correct you on this little bit...

I always remember our trip in my PA30 twin Comanche when on the first Takeoff you yarded the thing in the air pulled up the gear below blue line and we slowly accelerated and climbed away.

There is no way I would have " Yarded " the airplane off a paved runway.....I accelerated to lift off speed and the airplane flew off the runway and once I noted a positive rate of climb I retracted the landing gear and then accelerated to blue line plus x knots and we climbed to circuit height.......

I do recall that day and our conversation about how to fly a light twin engine airplane and that conversation had zero to do with our friendship, it was nothing more than two pilots expressing a different procedure for the gear retraction and speed handling procedures.

By the way as I recall I rented that cute little devil a couple of times for my instrument re rides in the spring before I left with the water bomber for Eastern Canada or where ever.

The old Cat has been around a long time, a very long time and has developed this burning desire not to get killed in an airplane in my desire to live I have learned that two things get an airplane in the air....first is money...second is airspeed.

Here is something to think about....you said..

and we slowly accelerated and climbed away.

If you leave the gear down your acceleration will be even slower.

I am not a believer in the leave the gear down on a twin engine airplane ( especially a low powered, low performance twin. ) until there is no runway left ahead of you to land on.......

Here is why:

If you are say three to four hundred feet above the ground in the climbing attitude with the gear down and an engine quits you have a very narrow time frame to deal with the problem and maintain control and get the thing feathered and also get the gear retracted.....

Conversely if you lift off the runway clearly identify positive rate of climb and then retract the gear and then accelerate to a safe climb speed you have a clean airplane to help you maintain speed and lift if you have to deal with an engine failure. If the fu.kin thing won't climb you can land under control....rather than land out of control with the gear hanging down if the speed gets to low to soon.

Bruce can you PM me your phone number as I want you to go sailing with me so I can give you some advice on how to control women so as to keep them airborne, that is a far better subject than some piece of metal with no emotions or feelings.


Some time ago TC Guy said that he did not want his employer to know who he was because he feared retribution should he say something that went against the grain so to speak.

Therefore he is afraid of his employer.

And knowing his employer I must admit he is correct.

[Hedley]

Meatball piston twin flying, which is sure to enrage many:

Before takeoff:

trims are set
flaps up
boost pumps on as reqd
engine control friction lock set
mixtures rich
props forward
brakes on
throttles forward, spool up turbos (as applicable)
brakes release

rotate

gear up

engine failure before blue line, both throttles back

blue line

Move your right hand from the throttles to
the props. If the dreaded EFATO occurs, and
the aircraft suddenly yaws right, pull the right
prop. If the aircraft suddenly yaws left, pull
the left prop.

LOWER THE NOSE FOR BLUE LINE

RAISE THE DEAD ENGINE 2.5 DEGREES (not 5)
BALL HALF OUT

LAND

**** end

Yes, you might have governor failure and prop
overspeed. Maybe 1% of the time. 99% of
the time, the above will keep you alive, which
is why no one does it.

Flame away. As if I could care

http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184438-1.html?type=pf

[jetflightinstructor]

brakes release

rotate

gear up

Agreed.

gear up

engine failure before blue line, both throttles back

blue line

Well... Here I am lost.
Everybody agrees that when you select the gear up, you will continue to fly, even if an engine failure occures.
I don' t know how to continue to fly with both throttles back (idle?).
I would say FULL (max for turbine) power, confirm your power levers are set for the max take off power.

If you lose control (red line, or stall warning, or buffet) with one engine out, then yes retard throttle and nose down.

Flying below blue line with one engine failure is possible (we should be above red line though), blue line is the best rate of climb at max weight with the critical engine failed. Below blue line is the best angle on one engine.

engine failure before blue line, both throttles back

It would make more sense to say: engine failure below VMCA (red line), both throttles back.

But most of the time red line is below rotate no?

It is ok to fly below blue line. Blue line seems to take more importance than it should be in the few past posts.

2 speeds quite important to check in your AFM: VMCA, and best angle with one engine. Best angle is the speed to reach after rotate if you have an engine failure. If you can reach blue line immediately after rotate without loosing altitude, then this is great.