Entry Aircraft

Interested in aerobatics or information on an airshow place your topics here.

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pilotdreams
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by pilotdreams »

I have around 70 hours total time on tricycle gear. What is a safe amount of hours to fly before I buy my own Yak 55?
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pilotdreams
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by pilotdreams »

Please do recommend several people to help me out here. Not much aerobatic school action here in Canada. I was planning on going to Harv's Air unless something else comes up. Best thing would be to share an airplane but, I guess that doesn't always work either.
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by Hedley »

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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by bmc »

Hedley...aside from the engine sound, how do they handle? What do you like/dislike about them?
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by pilotdreams »

Yellowknife, NT. There has been word of heli training here but as of now I don't believe there is a single FTU or flying club here. Very sad for a place that touts so much aviation. I guess the pilots don't make enough money to fly on the side.
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pilotdreams
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by pilotdreams »

Oh, heres the russian tractor sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vop72nyLAlQ
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by Hedley »

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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by Cat Driver »

Anyone here ever fly a HiperBipe?
For a real Excedrin hard on you need a 600 H.P. Stearman when it comes to noise.
Anyone here ever fly a HiperBipe?
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by niwre »

I also don't like roasting my nuts off when doing aerobatics. :P
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by mag check »

delete
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by Osiris »

Hedley wrote: I've never flown an
aerobatic airplane with a heater.
Keep it off if you do, seems to make people sick when it's on!
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by Jerz »

My 5C on aerobatic trainers:
-best basic 2 seaters - Decathlon and Zlin 526F (there are several in the US)
-best intermediate 2 seaters - Pitts 2 hollers
-best advanced 2 seat trainers - Su-29 and Extra 300 (Suk being better by an order of magnitude)

Buying 2 seater aerobatic - don't. Your wife, kids, friends will have enough of it after a couple of flights and you will be stuck with very lousy and expensive compromise. If your kids are really into flying, let them show you how serious they are. It would be so much easier to teach them on a rented Citabria or similar and later, after proper check out let them fly your single seat Pitts, Yak, Zlin 50 or whatever. Running an aerobatic school in Canada is a joke and a sure way to loose mega $$$. Don't kid yourself that you will offset the cost of your 2 seater by doing that. Then there is an issue of liability. It is quite easy to send your passenger to the emergency room with too much fun in an aerobatic 2 seater, especially something like Extra or Su-29.

To get started in aerobatics I would get basic acro course in a Decathlon and then buy:

- Pitts S1S or better - best value by far, will put a silly grin on your face, guaranteed, lousy X-country machine, and obviously for the smaller pilots, famous for humiliating even the most experience pilots on landing, but think of it as a challenge, everybody should have one, I don't but I keep saying that.
-Yak 55 -Unlimited capable but you will not win even at regional level (very draggy, especially under Gs), one of the best tumbling aircraft ever built, extremely uncomfortable for anything more then 20min, good Advanced and airshow machine with the best aerobatic engine ever built, running cost double of the Pitts. Easy to fly and land, with a proper check out in high performance trainer. You will not break it unless you hit the dirt ball hard
-Zlin 50 (good value, Unlimited capable, solid Advanced aircraft, Lycoming engine - could be good or bad, depends on your point of view, nice, solid performer from one of the best manufacturers in the world, somewhat past it's prime for a serious competitor, mostly due to banana shape tail cone and light wing loading, good tumbling aircraft. Easy to fly and land, but controls are not well harmonized. Not much support from the factory anymore, but it is very low maintenance, if you have a westernized one - wing fuel tanks, western wheels and brakes
-Yak 52 - good and fun military style trainer- poor's man Harvard. You could compete in it up to Intermediate level (unless you are Russian and fly somebody else’s machine - you could try Advanced then). If you go that route spin training is mandatory, preferably with Sergei or Nik, or you will kill yourself in a spin. Proven over and over again. Haven’t flown the Nanchang , but I understand it is quite a bit less aerobatic then Yak, but better x-country.
-RVs - acro capable but very easy to get in trouble (speed control, G loads, inverted spins), especially for inexperience acro driver. Great sport and x-country machines, but I would not recommend them as aerobatic aircraft, unless modified.

Then we get into more expensive types Giles, Staudachers, Panzles, and many more less popular ones. Haven’t flown any of them , but some look good from the judge’s line. Advanced and Unlimited capable.

And then there is the top of the heap - Unlimited monoplanes. There is nothing wrong in jumping into one from the start, but you (and more important, your better half) better be sure that is what you want to do. To fly Unlimited even at regional level is a big commitment most people are not willing to undertake. I don't think there is more than 4 or 5 of us semi serious in Canada.

I am biased here, but in my opinion nothing can touch Su-26, or 31 in that category. If you don’t believe me, check out the statistics from WAC, EAC, and US Nationals for the last 20 years - over 150 medals at the world Unlimited level.. Relatively easy to fly safely, but very challenging to fly well in front of the judges. Most of us haven’t reached the potential of these machines yet.

Edge 540 - solid Unlimited aircraft, but too fast for competition in my opinion. Staying in the box becomes a challenge.

CAP 232 - good compromise between the Sukhoi (Russian tractor) and the Edge (American missile), but fragile with some serious structural issues. Requires serious cheat in the tail slides.

Then there are a few new and promising designs yet to be proven - MX, Sbach.

There is one more option for aerobatic training nobody mentioned yet. It is perfectly legal to hire an aerobatic trainer aircraft and an aerobatic instructor separetly, as long as there is an arm length relation between them. That would be my recommendation for those of you living too far from the few aerobatics schools in Canada. Aerobatics Canada is working with TC at allowing teaching aerobatics without an aerobatic instructor rating (similar to float endorsements, IFR, multi), but we will all probably be dead before that happens. My recommendation is to contact Aerobatics Canada. It seems that Alberta is the most active chapter right now.

Whatever you buy, get it properly inspected by somebody who knows aerobatic aircraft. They are quite a bit different then your 172, and it is very easy to buy a lemon. None of the homebuilts are the same.
Then get proper aerobatic training - doesn't have to be much, maybe 5 or 10 hrs, depends on equipment and your experience. Then you are on your way to seek the perfection of flight none of us will ever reach. WARNING - very addictive, known to cause AviationInducedDivorceSyndrom.


Jerzy
http://www.NorthernAeros.com
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Hedley
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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by Hedley »

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Re: Entry Aircraft

Post by therajah »

Having only been for aerobatic rides and never having received any instruction, my opinion is that of one who does a lot more aerobatic dreaming than flying. Two aircraft that have been overlooked in this thread are the CAP-10 and the Zlin 142/242. They are both have side by side seating for easy instruction, and the Zlin is even a trike for those not tailwheel inclined. From my reading, each is reported to be at least as pleasant to fly as the standard North American trainer, the Citabria/Super Decathlon. Some have even gone to say that the CAP-10 is the best elementary aerobatic trainer ever produced!

CAP's have had some recent spar issues, but APEX (the maufacturer) claims that they have been sorted out with the addition of carbon fibre strengthening members.

Any comments on these two?
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Re: Entry Aircraft

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Re: Entry Aircraft

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