Accommodations for Westjet new hirers during training

[tonysoprano]

People applying and accepting a job with Westjet will have to take the working environment at face value.- What it is today- Please come with the attitude that if anything changes to further enhance my lifestyle living away from Calgary is a bonus.

I can assure you and many will agree, that the company has been very progressive and has dedicated allot of time and resources to get where we are today. We are only 12 years old!

Debating in the proper internal channels is progressive, complaining on a forum is digressive by way of dividing groups.

Dave.

Let me guess Dave, you're management aren't you? Just two small comments from the outside: a) 12 years is a long time to fix something and b) your employees use this site to get opinions, ideas or maybe just vent. You shouldn't be telling them to take the bad stuff internally. There's nothing to be afraid of. Contrary to some beliefs there is no perfect company. Shame on you. You are setting a very bad example and sadly, will probably get away with it.

[rightseatwonder]

does anyone honestly think that westjet management has not worked out the cost/benefit analysis of ports plus one base, ports plus 2 bases, ports plus 3 bases, multi-port plus one base, multi-port plus 2 base (ad nauseam)?

All indications point to the fact that westjets OVEREALL CORPORATE goals for the foreseeable future will be better served by keeping the one base concept... with ports in many major centers.... for a number of reasons that we armchair quarterbacks can't figure out within our little myopic sphere of personal space. They are always talking about the "bigger picture"...

in my opinion, westjet couldnt move efficiently to a system of multiple bases without a seniority system in place for assigning bases and pairings. which, obviously, would be an contentious issue!

can. opened. worms. everywhere.

[BigB]

The goal of my post was to throw out some hard statistics.....

.........so I'd like to point out a couple of facts:

In the last month and a half since I started keeping track I have flown 16777 guests almost 15000 miles for a total of 1.5 million revenue passenger miles. All in overtime out of YYZ! Most of which was last minute and would have resulted in cx'd flights had someone not been there to do it! And I'm just one guy. What's all that worth?

Rem, I'll give you the opportunity to revise your numbers, if you'd like, before we proceed with the discussion.

[Four1oh]

People applying and accepting a job with Westjet will have to take the working environment at face value.- What it is today- Please come with the attitude that if anything changes to further enhance my lifestyle living away from Calgary is a bonus.

I can assure you and many will agree, that the company has been very progressive and has dedicated allot of time and resources to get where we are today. We are only 12 years old!

Debating in the proper internal channels is progressive, complaining on a forum is digressive by way of dividing groups.

Dave.

Let me guess Dave, you're management aren't you? Just two small comments from the outside: a) 12 years is a long time to fix something and b) your employees use this site to get opinions, ideas or maybe just vent. You shouldn't be telling them to take the bad stuff internally. There's nothing to be afraid of. Contrary to some beliefs there is no perfect company. Shame on you. You are setting a very bad example and sadly, will probably get away with it.

Tony go crawl back to your cave and jump to conclusions there... but watch your head. The current issues that are on WJ's doorstep these days didn't exist 12 years ago, nor 5 years ago. And if saying Dave's being a 737 captain at WJ is managment, then so am I, and so are over 400 others... and, btw he also shared his opinion, which is what this site is all about. I thought you were off attempting at sopping up some sanity? Or is the beach too boring?

[KAG]

The one thing that we can all agree on is Westjet is a progressive company and is taking steps to improve the lives of all it's employees, while trying to balance company needs. The ports are the perfect example of this. They aren’t perfect but it’s a work in progress.

IMHO we need an eastern base(or better port balance/structure), and I think the recent rash of IROPS prove this, not to mention the 12+ tails that start in YYZ every morning for example. I’m sure the company recognizes this. The problem is how do you solve this problem without changing the seniority issue? There is no easy answer, and as much as I dislike commuting, it is my decision. I applaud the company for taking a slow and thoughtful approach to this issue rather then shuffle the pilot roasters and piss a lot of people off in the process.
Personally I believe the problem will fix itself in time as more FO’s upgrade to CPT, the roasters balance themselves out, and the flying will become more balanced as well (less commuting).
IMHO anyway. Flame away.

[DaveP]

Sorry Tony,

Your guess is wrong. I'm not management, just a pilot. Thanks for your insight, I'm sure you're advise is genuine as always.

Dave.

People applying and accepting a job with Westjet will have to take the working environment at face value.- What it is today- Please come with the attitude that if anything changes to further enhance my lifestyle living away from Calgary is a bonus.

I can assure you and many will agree, that the company has been very progressive and has dedicated allot of time and resources to get where we are today. We are only 12 years old!

Debating in the proper internal channels is progressive, complaining on a forum is digressive by way of dividing groups.

Dave.

Let me guess Dave, you're management aren't you? Just two small comments from the outside: a) 12 years is a long time to fix something and b) your employees use this site to get opinions, ideas or maybe just vent. You shouldn't be telling them to take the bad stuff internally. There's nothing to be afraid of. Contrary to some beliefs there is no perfect company. Shame on you. You are setting a very bad example and sadly, will probably get away with it.

[tonysoprano]

dave.
Your sarcasm is well noted. Past posts of yours seemed to indicate you were a hiring guy which in most places puts you in a management position. Sorry for my ignorance or assumptions or whatever. I usually enjoy reading your posts as they are very informative. However it seems the only news some of you guys want to reveal is the good stuff. The fact is that wanting to hide the problems from a public forum will not fix them. The first step is to be able to take the critism openly. All the other airlines don't seem to have a problem with that. Didn't mean to digress from this topic, back to it.

[DaveP]

thanks, np.

[tonysoprano]

Four1oh

The current issues that are on WJ's doorstep these days didn't exist 12 years ago, nor 5 years ago.

Well um let's see, topic is "Accommodations for Westjet new hirers during training". Sanity in place, I will go no further.

[Clint23]

Four1oh

The current issues that are on WJ's doorstep these days didn't exist 12 years ago, nor 5 years ago.

Well um let's see, topic is "Accommodations for Westjet new hirers during training". Sanity in place, I will go no further.

So let's see....everyone that has been hired at WJ for the last twelve years has paid for their accommodations during training...or so I assume from this thread. Now you Tony are from Air Canada, and want WJ to pay for said accommodations during training. I can only think of two reasons why:

1) You are planning on jumping ship to be with the Kool aid gang, or

2) You want the Kool aid gangs cost to rise so that you will not be the only major airline in Canada pissin' away money.


(Just jokin' Tony, couldn't resist)

[CanadaEH]

If bases are the way we need to go, why isn't the YYZ port working? Or is it?
What would a base do differently than a port?

[Four1oh]

A base would force a set number of pilots and FA's to work out of YYZ, like it or not. Traditionally it's done by senority. The better the location, the higher the senority guys will be there. It's not a solution I want, and I don't think it's one the company wants. Once again, something has to be done, and if the ports don't work out, what's left?

[KAG]

A base would force a set number of pilots and FA's to work out of YYZ, like it or not. Traditionally it's done by senority. The better the location, the higher the senority guys will be there. It's not a solution I want, and I don't think it's one the company wants. Once again, something has to be done, and if the ports don't work out, what's left?

Crew splitting seems to be mentioned alot. But it has it issues as well (IROPS for one).

Canada EH, you asked about the YYZ port, it's the balance is missing. we have more then enough FO's and FA's but only a handful of Captains so the company can only build the port flying based on the lowest common denominator - in this case captains. Although I heard there is 9 or so upgrades (can anyone confirm or deny this) for YYZ FO's this year so that should really help balance the numbers out.

[. .]

Must be pretty sweet being a YYZ port captain then.

[tonysoprano]

As mentioned by Four1oh, the base system would have to place importance on seniority. Something the company seems to be trying to avoid. The question is, is there such a big difference in the quality or quantity of flying between yyc and yyz? There are pros and cons to everything but ultimately management has be on board any decision. They might not give you the option you want.

[. .]

Sorry Tony,

Your guess is wrong. I'm not management, just a pilot. Thanks for your insight, I'm sure you're advise is genuine as always.

Dave.

I believe that to be misleading. You may not hold an official "management" position. However, I would argue that you are in a position of authority. There certainly aren't 400 other Pilot Hiring Coordinators there, are there Four1oh?

That said, I can understand what you're saying about this not being the forum for people complaining about ports or lack of bases. WestJet prides itself on it's culture, and obviously even here on the forum will go to great lengths to protect it.

[CAL]

That does seem odd that they dont offer you somewhere to stay for at least a set period of time until you can at least organize some sort of place for yourself. I understand that WJ has done well because they dont pay for stuff like this perhaps but....
Moving is difficult and expensive...you need a car a place to live...it would only make sense to offer something for a week or so with transport to make sure you can concentrate on the training and not other things...I think that most of you would agree with that...well unless someone else paid your bill or you have no wife or kids and dont mind sleeping in your car....how long do they give you to move and give notice?!...
what is the portal system?...I am guessing all pilots are based in YYC? How does that work?

[jjj]

Too many judges of what is right and what is wrong.

The deal is what it is and you can take it or leave it - if you don't like it, you reserve the right to stay where you are or go elsewhere.

That being said, our pilot group still goes to bat for our young and because of that, training pay was eliminated a few years ago. A positive step for new hires at WestJet and in time there will be more.

Hell, I remember the days when Canadian Regional guys didn't get paid a cent during ground school. If you didn't like that princess then you had the right to get stuffed.

Things can be primitive in aviation but hopefully they will get better in time.

[mattedfred]

Too many judges of what is right and what is wrong.

The deal is what it is and you can take it or leave it.

That being said, our pilot group still goes to bat for our young and because of that, training pay was eliminated a few years ago. A positive step for new hires at WestJet and in time there will be more.

Hell, I remember the days when Canadian Regional guys didn't get paid a cent during ground school. Things can be primitive in aviation but hopefully they will get better in time.

too many opinions is never a bad thing in my opinion. the challenge lies in reaching a consensus. it is true that one can take it or leave it. it is also true that issues need to be brought to the foreground in order to get resolved, otherwise airlines like CRA would still be treating their new hires in such a way if they were still operating.

[Machiavelli]

They are still operating. It's called "Jazz".

[KAG]

Not to defend Jazz, but they do pay salary and hotels during training. At least they did when I was there.

[mattedfred]

thanks. i know the history as i work at jazz. the CRA collective agreement is no longer in force therefore the T&Cs that the poster was referring to know longer apply.

[DaveP]

I think we've beaten this to death here. I can assure you it won't get changed by external views or wish lists. It will only turn an internal ear from internal people. Office doors are always open. I personally couldn't imagine a company listening to competitors employees!

I'm not sure how much clearer the topic could be other than people will have to expect what the company is today. Anything more is a bonus, don't go on any speculation or hope. If you choose to commute and help out from your home city that is strictly your choice. Considering we've hired about 1000 pilots so far and we have maybe 3 or 4 on this forum are challenging the policy, I think it's fair to say what we do is a success and acceptable by way of democracy. Try posting internally on our wjpa if it bugs you enough. I'm guessing nobody will.

The only -large- companies in Canada I recall even doing this are/were Nova (at that dumpy airport hotel) and AC. I know I didn't get a hotel when I did my initial GS at Air Ontario. Can someone at Jazz tell me that if you get a Toronto Base and you train in YYZ - do they pay for a hotel on the initial? Has that changed? I won't even go down that road with AC's own challenges.

Dave.

[DaveP]

Thanks, I guess I was slow typing and KAG asked my question.

Matted are you looking to get on here?

[mattedfred]

Matted are you looking to get on here?

nope