CanJet Making Its Mark

[Donald]

As per wages, thats not what this is about.

Well actually, this thread is about Canjet signing an agreement with AT to do up to five years of flying for them.

One possible reason that they secured the contract, could be a lower cost due to lower wages than other bidders.

Another possible reason, could be employing overseas crews.

[stick_shaker]

why is everyone beating up on Canjet, you don't like their business practices?... well guess what, if it's not them then someone else will do it and so on and on! It makes a nice story to say that Canjet took the high road and hired only Canadians and bla bla la! They are in it for the money, they are running a business and they are running it under the laws and rules allowed to them. There is not a single company i can think of that hasn't engaged in questionable practices, including yours. Illegal? No, Immoral? Maybe, But as long as the rules allow it they will keep doing it because they can and because it makes good financial sense, end of story. You are targeting the wrong crowd here, what is it you want? the Canjet pilot's to admit that perhaps Canjet should hire more Canadian. I have no doubt in my mind that they would all like to see that, are they going to march into head office and demand it NO! and nor should they. You don't like it, lobby the government not the Canjet pilots.

As for Canjet pilot's being ashamed, easy to say sitting in your nice warm cockpit paying your mortgage and bills on time, it is you who should be ashamed to expect people to put their familys in the line of fire, perhaps i am wrong, maybe you would turn down a left seat in a 737 in your home town just to prove a point, but i will bet a lot of money you wouldn't

[Troubleshot]

I will agree with RD in some aspects regarding hiring foreign workers but I am quite sure alot of airlines had trouble finding qualified guys until very close to the charter season (IE Zoom demise)...I think it stunned growth for more than just CanJet.

I mean CanJet is not the only company doing this, as you know Sunwing is also doing this and not in limited capacity either...I did 10 turns for Sunwing last week and counting from memory I seen 4-5 foreign pilots and that is no exaggeration either...2 captains 2-3 F/O's.

[rd1331]

I mean CanJet is not the only company doing this, as you know Sunwing is also doing this and not in limited capacity either...I did 10 turns for Sunwing last week and counting from memory I seen 4-5 foreign pilots and that is no exaggeration either...2 captains 2-3 F/O's.

The difference between CanJet and Sunwing/Skyservice.....is that there is a reciprical agreement. If I have my numbers correct SW brought over around 40 TUI pilots, but they are sending just under 60 to europe this summer. So a bit of a different story from just bringing pilots into Canada but not sending any out. Reciprical agreements do help the industry, without them those 60 pilots going to europe would just not end up having a job, at least not at that company. But to bring pilots over and not send any in return that is just not cool.

[Troubleshot]

yeah but wouldn't you say that these agreements aren't going to help out a guy looking to make a jump from a canadian turbo prop operator to a 737...I mean the pilots that Sunwing/SSK send over are experienced guys aren't they? sooo.... shouldn't we wait and if CanJet builds it's pilot group up first and see what happens.

[rd1331]

Not really....it all matters on sinority not on experience. First year/second year....doesn't matter your number comes up and you want to go you go. Without the reciprical company's would have to reduce there flying during the winter to what they could fly during the summer or maybe slightly more. Otherwise they would layoff every year. But with the reciprical it allows companies to increase there pilot group during the summer by overstaffing Canadian pilots and sending them over to europe when they are no longer needed during the summer. This keeps those pilots employed year round, gives them a job. And by also bringing over foreign pilots to work during the winter increases the company's ability to be competetive during the winter aswell. But aslong as it is a fair number, of course. Bringing over 60 but sending 5 won't cut it.

We need to look out for ourselves here. Normally with these reciprical agreements it works out in the Canadian pilots favor (sending more Canadians to europe during the summer than foreigners coming here during the winter).

People keep saying well what can the pilots at CanJet do about it. You have a Union, you have ALPA, which BTW is against even the reciprical agreements. Figure that, they are against reciprical but allow foreigners to come over. Get the union to do the talking, they represent YOU. Remember the more pilots you have in your Union the better. You don't have to walk into the CPs office, that is what your Union is for. They are there to represent you.

[Dim]

why is everyone beating up on Canjet, you don't like their business practices?... well guess what, if it's not them then someone else will do it and so on and on! It makes a nice story to say that Canjet took the high road and hired only Canadians and bla bla la! They are in it for the money, they are running a business and they are running it under the laws and rules allowed to them. There is not a single company i can think of that hasn't engaged in questionable practices, including yours. Illegal? No, Immoral? Maybe, But as long as the rules allow it they will keep doing it because they can and because it makes good financial sense, end of story. You are targeting the wrong crowd here, what is it you want? the Canjet pilot's to admit that perhaps Canjet should hire more Canadian. I have no doubt in my mind that they would all like to see that, are they going to march into head office and demand it NO! and nor should they. You don't like it, lobby the government not the Canjet pilots.

As for Canjet pilot's being ashamed, easy to say sitting in your nice warm cockpit paying your mortgage and bills on time, it is you who should be ashamed to expect people to put their familys in the line of fire, perhaps i am wrong, maybe you would turn down a left seat in a 737 in your home town just to prove a point, but i will bet a lot of money you wouldn't

Agreed, well said

[slowstream]

Good on Canjet inking a deal with A.T.

Sorry I don't see the problem here other than a few people trying to solve the worlds problems from one company. If you don't like them, don't fly on them or don't fly for them, it's that simple.

After 15+ years in this business I received my third lay-off through no fault of my own! I have a wife and two children to take care of and a mortgage to pay............. I've applied with Canjet, hope they will offer me position and if they do I will fly for them happily, it's better than E.I pays and keeps a roof over our head and food on the table, but the choice is mine. I assure you that I will hold my head very high and with pride, but please feel free to come up to my face and express your disgust with me and I will free to exercise my right to beat the living tar out of your arrogant ass!.............. your choice too.

Glass houses boy's, you ever heard the term?

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Jeez Guys, don't you know that the only airlines in Canada worth working for are the "Teal Cult" or our bankrupt "Flag Carrier"??? Anything less makes you a scab, bringing down the working conditions and salary in this industry. You guys SHOULD be ashamed!! All you A**holes care about is feeding your children and paying your bills!! What about the rest of us Dammit!! You guys are setting an unacceptable precedent. What about OUR right to make 200 g's a year, working 8-10 days a month, then bitching about it??? What about OUR right to unionize ourselves out of a job??? Huh??? WHAT ABOUT US??? THANKS FOR NOTHING!!!

Maybe if you all repent now, and admit to being scab whores, there may just be room for you when the teal spaceship comes to take them all away to Blisstonia.

Seriously, we're all fighting the same battle at the end of the day. Is the fact that you're getting paid more to do the same job, and fly the same ship not enough? There's ALWAYS going to be someone making less money, working more hours. Maybe one day some of these guys may have a job where they make more, and work less than you do. Does that mean YOU are now bringing down the working conditions, or should be ashamed??? Why do you feel the need to bash on these guys for taking work when it's offered? In many cases, when they didn't even have jobs. Why does it get your panties in a bunch? How is it skin off your back?? Should they refuse the work because the company is "unethical" and hires expats??? Would losing their house and starving their children, or going to work at 'Hortons make more sense to you? Would that be more "ethical"?
What choice would YOU make if you were in their position? Would you refuse work at CJ because they "only" make 90 g's a year, and may hire expats? Does Timmy Ho's or some other bullshit job sound better to you? It shouldn't concern you in the least.

Let it go. You probably all have good jobs for the most part.

Live and Let Live guys...

[arewethereyet]

thats the best and most intelligent post regarding this topic! good work! way to go canjet!

nuff said!

[rotorjay]

Handsome B. Wonderful !! You really nailed it laddy!
THE END !!
Don't even think about buddy and you know who you are!!

[.......]

Seriously, we're all fighting the same battle at the end of the day.

I don't think so....

As long as there will be someone to fill the seat of a new carrier paying much less than the ones they're after it will be a lost battle... and we will keep making less and less...

That's about all there is to it!

In the long run, you will, with your new low paying job, make me lose mine, and if I continue with the same reasoning as you, I'll get a job with the new company trying to take market shares away from yours, and the cycle will go on and on and on and on....

Simple, really!

[Troubleshot]

I'm just going to start posting this now.

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[Dim]

I love my Job, the people I work with and for the first time in my career I actually like the company.
As far as longevity, who the hell knows??? Maybe a year, maybe 5, maybe more. Nobody knows which company is going to prevail. But for the time being i'm happy on the East Coast and i'm proud to wear a Canjet uniform................ It took me 10 years of bullshit to get it.

[slowstream]

Skylounger,

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, I don't know you or what your circumstances are but I can only make a couple assumptions by your posts, but you will most certainly find out one day that we are indeed all fighting the same battle of trying to survive and grow in this complicated world. In other words, you will live and you most certainly die like the rest of us, if you don't see that then maybe take a harder look at your life or life in general.

No need to get down in the mud here, and I can only speak for myself when I say/ask, don't look down your nose at me in judgement for my choices and decisions, and then blame me or others for your perceived woes in life.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Seriously, we're all fighting the same battle at the end of the day.

I don't think so....

As long as there will be someone to fill the seat of a new carrier paying much less than the ones they're after it will be a lost battle... and we will keep making less and less...

That's about all there is to it!

In the long run, you will, with your new low paying job, make me lose mine, and if I continue with the same reasoning as you, I'll get a job with the new company trying to take market shares away from yours, and the cycle will go on and on and on and on....

Simple, really!

So what you'll have to do then, when these guys "make you lose your job", is refuse to work the lower paying job you're talking about. That'll end the whole "cycle" and everything will be fixed. Not refusing it would be quite hypocritical my friend.

Lemme know how that job at Subway works out for ya. I thank you in advance for being a Martyr and saving the future of our industry.

Way to go Man HIGH FIVE!!!!

[Charley]

June 1st, 2009 CanJet has 99 permanent Canadian pilots on its seniority list. 4-6 permanent pilots will continue to be hired each month until October. Direct-entry Captains start at 85K and F/O's at 51K.

[widebody300er]

Do you know what bases they are hiring for? Any pilots out of YVR?

[ScudRunner]

Interviews Next Week

Montreal and Toronto Bases

[Pourdu_fun]

finally good news in aviation.

Pourdu

[.......]

finally good news in aviation.

Pourdu

Tell that to the AT guys who might get laidoff because of that, uh H.B.W.???

From your logic, they'll go and get a job with Canjet to do the same thing they did with AT, for a fraction of the salary they were making? Grand, ain't it?

If it keeps on going your way, 20 years from now you'll get paid the same thing flying a 787 or A350 as I was a PA350 in 1985. Keep up the good work.

[Troubleshot]

And from your logic CanJet may have inadvertently formed some sort of blackhole and will destroy aviation as we know it......relax man...they are just hiring people.

[whipline]

I'm a little confused Skylounger. I believe the reason Canjet is hiring pilots is 100% due to YOUR company signing a deal with them? If you are upset then why doesn't your pilot group do something about it?

[.......]

I'm a little confused Skylounger. I believe the reason Canjet is hiring pilots is 100% due to YOUR company signing a deal with them? If you are upset then why doesn't your pilot group do something about it?

B*I*N*G*O*

The company I work for is Air Transat. The company that signed a deal with Canjet is Transat AT. So, in fact, it is not MY company that dealt with Canjet.

So, technically, if layoffs occur at Air Transat it is because Canjet undercut the costs. Get it?

This is a neverending spiral downwards...

Troubleshot, get your facts straight before posting... I'm not only pointing Canjet, but all the private charter companies that drive costs down long enough to destroy what others have worked so hard to build and then fold because they didn't charge enough, or that the owner(s) ran away with the money...you know the drill...blah blah blah....

Repeat story.... Worldways, Nationair, Odyssey, Astoria, C3, Royal, Roots, HMY, Jetsgo, Sunwing, Enerjet,... How many more do you need?

[Troubleshot]

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