This forum is for non aviation related topics, political debate, random thoughts, and everything else that just doesn't seem to fit in the normal forums. ALL FORUM RULES STILL APPLY.
You have first hand experience of mental illness so I can see why you feel the way you do, but would you feel the same way about this illness had it lead to the brutal killing of a loved one, would you be such an advocate of the mentally ill killer in that case? I am for victims rights not the other way around, this guy should be locked up for life, give him the help bleeding hearts want to give him (and the point of this "help" is what?) but he should never see the free world again. When an animal attacks or kills a person the animal is destroyed and this person mentally ill or not is an animal yet is being treated as a victim (only in Canada) I am a proud Candian but not a fan of our victims last legal system. And enough of your bullshit when somone disagrees with you saying it is due to a lack of knowledge on the subject blah blah you do not know me or my background, what I know or do not know, so instead of personal attacks from you a so called "moderator" on many issues with those who disagree with your clearly bleeding heart agenda just offer your own opinon and leave it at that.
I agree with the thought that schizophrenia is a disease not a choice which can affect people in unknown ways...it is difficult to hold them accountable in the eyes of the justice system. I just think it is difficult to clearly define what is insane, the act or the person...and where the line of punishment vs treatment can distinguish.
The law very clearly distinguishes the line between the person and the act, and an insanity defence is based on the person. It isn't what you did that shows you are insane, it's whether or not you understood what you were doing.
Habit, who are the victims and what are your so called "victim rights" you are interested in upholding?
"Murder" is not "murder" as you seem to believe it should be, nor should the law treat everyone the same. Mental illness is one defence, age is another. Do you view a 6 year old who kills someone the same as an adult? Would sending that little kid to prison for the rest of his life be justice, or upholding some victim right? Do you not believe there should be classes of murder as we currently have with 1st and 2nd degree? Where does manslaughter or criminal negligence causing death fit in for you? What about homicide - is that also murder in your eyes?
It's fine to have a black and white view of the world and emmotionally discount certain people as animals, but reality is almost entirely in shades of grey.
I still maintain that you could have a perfectly acceptable system of Justice and hold crazy people accountable. I realize that in the system we have " intent " is important. But I think it would be absolutely fine to say intent doesn't matter for shit. And actually if you are the perp, it frequently doesn't. If my intent is to kill some one, but I screw up and don't get it done, I'm not guilty of murder. My intent doesn't matter. The French ( and how I shudder to even say the word ) have a much different system of justice than we in the US and Canada do. Though again, I believe intent does matter to them. A judge under the French system is as much an investigator as a judge. He is supposed to get at the actual truth, not the pseudo truth as it is presented by the two sides, prosecutor and defense. If you have faith and trust in the government, this is a sensible system. Of course thats a huge if. But my point is there are other civilized ways to do things. If a schizophrenic commits a violent crime, I think you could imprison him for life with no possibility of parole and that would be a perfectly well reasoned position. To hell with intent.
As for STL spurning the label liberal, I don't see why its such an insult. I've read your opinions on here for a couple of years, and I find them generally liberal. And while I agree with you on the whole Religion is a crock of shit thing, I think you could fairly say that my opinions are conservative. Actually my Mom, who was a civil rights activist in the south in the late 40's, when such a thing was very painful, said that calling her a liberal was a damn insult. She thought liberals were too far to the center and wore the " radical" label with pride.
Wilbur wrote:The law very clearly distinguishes the line between the person and the act, and an insanity defence is based on the person. It isn't what you did that shows you are insane, it's whether or not you understood what you were doing.
Habit, who are the victims and what are your so called "victim rights" you are interested in upholding?
"Murder" is not "murder" as you seem to believe it should be, nor should the law treat everyone the same. Mental illness is one defence, age is another. Do you view a 6 year old who kills someone the same as an adult? Would sending that little kid to prison for the rest of his life be justice, or upholding some victim right? Do you not believe there should be classes of murder as we currently have with 1st and 2nd degree? Where does manslaughter or criminal negligence causing death fit in for you? What about homicide - is that also murder in your eyes?
It's fine to have a black and white view of the world and emmotionally discount certain people as animals, but reality is almost entirely in shades of grey.
Are you for real Wilbur? Who do you think the victims are I am concerned about, hmmm maybe the poor innocent guy that got hacked to death on a bus and his poor family, do they not deserve more than what has happened here? no of course not people are concerned with this poor nut job, and as for the 6 year old no not prison for life but they should never have the clean record they will receive, but if the kid was 12 or older they should be tried as an adult and not protected by our bullshit legal system. When was the last time a 6 year old stabbed someone and beheaded and ate them anyway? The brutality of this crime warrants this man to spend the rest of his days away from our society being prison or a mental institution, or do you think he should get treatment be considered cured by some quack and then be allowed to live out his life as a free man?
As for this 1st and 2nd degree murder bs if you deliberately kill a person (not in self defense) you should never see freedom again, what is the problem with that?
We fall from the same tree. I have a .40 caliber solution to the prison overpopulation problem.
However, what part of what Wilbur and I are saying do you not understand? This asshat will not see the light of day for a very long time. Most likely longer than if he was found guilty of murder.
Would you like me to direct you to a case in which a 3 year old drowned her 18 month old cousin? Do you want to tell the parents that their son's life doesn't compare because of the way he was killed?
Having never flown a bird with FMS, I'm not going to tell Rockie that he's wrong in programming it when I don't have a flipping clue how to myself. Do you see the metaphor?
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Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
We fall from the same tree. I have a .40 caliber solution to the prison overpopulation problem.
However, what part of what Wilbur and I are saying do you not understand? This asshat will not see the light of day for a very long time. Most likely longer than if he was found guilty of murder.
Would you like me to direct you to a case in which a 3 year old drowned her 18 month old cousin? Do you want to tell the parents that their son's life doesn't compare because of the way he was killed?
Having never flown a bird with FMS, I'm not going to tell Rockie that he's wrong in programming it when I don't have a flipping clue how to myself. Do you see the metaphor?
Well Wilbur was wondering which victims I was talking about, which I thought was clear, but not to him I guess, I agree with this situation as long as he does not see the light of day for the remainder of his life. As for the young offenders act. to a point I see its purpose for extremely young children, but the crimes they commit should not be wiped clean as most violent criminals where violent children once, and this fact should not be hidden, my issue with the young offenders act is when a 15 year old kills, they know what they are doing and for the most part know this YOA will protect their deviant asses from proper prosecution, my issue really is all of this concern about this poor sick man and the help he needs but not a whole lot of concern for the victims family who as well do not agree with the courts ruling. A jury should have made the decision in this case in my opinion. Serial killers for the most part show schizophrenic tendencies and in some cases did worse than Li did but they get what they deserve usually not sympathy and demands they are helped, Wilbur stated in a post Li should get help not prison, WHY does he deserve help?
Really my issue is with the justice system as a whole, you kill someone on purpose you should rot in a prison cell until death no Parole and life means life not 10 or 20 years, murders should not be rehabilitated what is the point?
Wilbur wrote:Do you not believe there should be classes of murder as we currently have with 1st and 2nd degree? Where does manslaughter or criminal negligence causing death fit in for you? What about homicide - is that also murder in your eyes?
I'll take a crack at this one. No, I do not believe that there should be any distinction between 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder or attempted murder. The consequences should be based on the act, not the intent. If someone intentionally carries out a deadly act against another person, the perpatrator of that act should be punished as a murderer. It would be a great way to get these gang bangers off the street. You fire shots at someone....life sentence.
habit wrote: [STL]...And enough of your bullshit when somone disagrees with you saying it is due to a lack of knowledge
Yeah, but if he didn't do that he'd have no comeback at all.
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Last edited by mcrit on Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I'm just two girls short of a threesome.
habit wrote: [STL]...And enough of your bullshit when somone disagrees with you saying it is due to a lack of knowledge
Yeah, but if he didn't do that he'd have no comeback at all.
Habit,
When it is lack of knowledge, expect to be called on it. If you can't handle that, then perhaps considering more carefully what you post would be a good start.
Mcrit,
That's the thing you haven't figured out yet, that it's not about "comebacks" as you seem to think. But whatever, you are pretty fun to watch.
Well, you guys have become little more than late night entertainment, it's jut the same garbage over and over again.
That's the thing you haven't figured out yet, that it's not about "comebacks" as you seem to think. But whatever, you are pretty fun to watch.
I shall rephrase. If it weren't for ad hominem you'd have no debating technique at all. I'm glad that you find what I write fun. Sadly, I can't return the compliment.
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I'm just two girls short of a threesome.
" Lol, Cat Driver had you figured a long time ago.
You bet I did.
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The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
mcrit wrote:STL, your last post made my points better than I ever could. Enjoy the curling.
I'm not sure anyone is all that interested, but glad to be of service.
Thanks, the curling was good. Too bad Sask is losing so badly this year, but a young team, so no surprises there. Ontario and Alberta looks like the final.
