Piper Seminole down near Fredericton

[MUSKEG]

I personally was fortunate enough to have an instructor who had 4000 hrs of line flying. I can't begin to tell you the benifit of that. Thanks Scott.

[Cat Driver]

How else does a class 4 fresh out of flight training ever upgrade?

Maybe they could get a job flying outside of the FTU culture and build up their experience flying airplanes and get upgraded by their employers based on their ability to be upgraded to more demanding machines?

My question still is why should a student at a FTU have to subsidize a flight instructors learning curve?

[Big Pistons Forever]

(quote) They start by teaching IFR in the twin then move to multi ratings once they have 50hrs on type. (quote)


(quote)you do realize this is how EVERY FTU in canada does this. Since you are not teaching a multi engine rating (as the person getting their group 1 IFR already HAS a multi engine rating) tc does not require the 50 on class or 10 on type for the IFR portion as you are not "teaching" engine failures. Its a lousy loophole but a loophole none the less that everyone has used. How else does a class 4 fresh out of flight training ever upgrade ? (quote)

A class 4 fresh out of training should never be doing Multi IFR training unless they allready have real world IFR experience in another area of aviation. BTW not all schools have brand new commercial pilots teaching IFR. Pro IFR in Victoria has a retired military pilot with a huge background in Military flight instruction (Canadian Military flight instruction is probably the best in the world) and another instructor who has a valid FI rating and who's last job was PIC on a learjet. Pacific Sky Aviation across the field have MEIFR Instructors who fly the line every day as Ho Captains. Students have options, they can and should choose a school with experienced instructors.

[iflyforpie]

How do the MFC instructors build up the 50 hours on twins before they teach? Or can they teach multi engine with less than 50 hours because they are licensed flight instructors?

They start by teaching IFR in the twin then move to multi ratings once they have 50hrs on type.

I'm glad my instructor for multi and IFR had more hours than this.

I didn't think that it was possible to be instructing on a twin with less than 50 hours. You'd think just the insurance would be killer.

Pro IFR in Victoria has a retired military pilot with a huge background in Military flight instruction (Canadian Military flight instruction is probably the best in the world)

+1 I was taught the military way and never looked back.

[C-GGGQ]

no you misunderstood. I'm not saying that thats the way it should be. I'm saying that of all the flight instructors at FTU's especially the big ones 90-95% of them started there as ppl students got their ratings and stayed there to instruct. What i meant is all of those places have multi instructors how do you think that all these people who started as class 4's got that magical 50 hours. By teaching IFR. That being said while i don't believe thats enough i think the 1000 hours multi is a bit much. If you are getting your multi rating you already have your ppl if not your cpl which even though doesn't mean much i think it means you are reasonably able to not crash a plane when making a simple take off fly strait and level and land. The new concepts in multi training are usually constant speed prop (not rocket science) thinking faster as the plane is usually faster though for a seminole not a lot. retractable gear again not a difficult concept and how to recover from an engine failure. pretty much the only completely new thing in that training syllabus. Once again not overly difficult but something that the student has no experience with. So i ask what is a person with 1000 hours multi going to teach me that a person with 1000 Total time and some multi not? They can both recover from that engine failure. The point of the multi engine rating is basically that not to teach airline ops or charter operation out of dirt strips etc.

[Big Pistons Forever]

C GGGQ


I would suggest if you think the only "new" skill in the ME rating to be learned is "recover from an engine failure" than I do not think you fully understand the true demands of piloting Multi engine aircraft in a safe and operationally effective manner.

I used to think like you did, but true understanding only came when after significant LOE experience

[Cat Driver]

There is nothing to it, except every once in a while one of them spins in or lands with the gear up and little things like that.

[mag check]

Yes Cat, seriously, just because the stats say you are 4 times more likely to die when a twin engine airplane crashes, vs. a single engine, doesn't mean there is anything different to learn, right?
I'm sure any instructor with 50 hours can teach all there is to know

[Jastapilot]

Boy am I glad I was taught by retired Military pilots with tons of experience. Too bad I'm still in debt because of it.

[Cat Driver]

I'm sure any instructor with 50 hours can teach all there is to know

It is not the instructors fault they are teaching with low hours and little experience, it is the training industry who use them because they can be enticed to work for pay that a common laborer would laugh at.

[itsajob]

I flew with J at PRO in Victoria (the Lear guy). Knowing what I know now I should have paid him more. It was a luxury to have his experience and awesome instruction. Not only would he NOT...yes I said NOT waste my money if I showed up unprepared but when we were flying he threw in alot of real world tips that I use everyday flying a twin. He also took me out in some less than perfect Wx which added to the realism of real world flying. Maybe if I have too many beers tonight I will send him a check seeing as he probably got paid the same as a 500hr Class 3. Oh yes and he is wicked in the seminole!

My 2 cents!

[C-GGGQ]

C GGGQ


I would suggest if you think the only "new" skill in the ME rating to be learned is "recover from an engine failure" than I do not think you fully understand the true demands of piloting Multi engine aircraft in a safe and operationally effective manner.

I used to think like you did, but true understanding only came when after significant LOE experience

it is the only new skill put forth by the flight instructor guide syllabus. Which is what all instructors are to go off of. Of COURSE there is more to flying a plane any plane not just a twin in a real charter environment especially up north than an engine failure. however that is not what the multi engine rating is geared towards sadly it is geared towards a rating for a private pilot it is not a course for a commecial pilot to learn bush or line flying. So according to TC which is what i said the only new skill is the engine failure thats where the loophole comes in. Now if we want to completely rework the system and have 2 different multi engine LICENSES instead of ratings a private which is the wya it is now and a commercial that follows a syllabus designed to teach real world lessons in charter operations thats a different story.

[Big Pistons Forever]

C GGGQ

You do not have to teach to the TC minimum standard. There is plenty of tips, good operating practices, and real world scenarios you can incorporate into the standard ME and ME IFR rating sylabus without adding any signifcant extra time to the course. But to do that you have to have a base of experience to draw on. I stand by my recommendation that students seek out an experienced instructor and refuse to fly with an instructor who has only ever flown a twin in a FTU instructing environment.

[airbournesailor]

I was my instructor's 1st IFR student. He probably had 20 - 30 hours multi. I got through it and he did a decent job but it's not the same as someone with experience in "real life" teaching you. I remember dissagreeing with him on how a couple of things should be done, but he insisted he was correct and that was how he was trained. When I did my ride, which was with a very experienced airline pilot, I passed but,the first thing he said in the debrief was why did I do this, refering to the same couple of proceedures. Both things were "common sense" for anyone flying IFR but not for an instructor who never flew any real IFR. Not a big deal but if was as lucky, or unlucky, to get a SPIFR job right out of school, those couple of little items, if not picked up by the examiner, could snowball some day on approach!!