bmc wrote:Get real the Hay River run was dropped years ago by Canadian International. There is no money in that run never has been any money in it. So don't go blaming West Jet and Jazz because they dropped Hay River and laid Pilots and ground crew off. The run eliminated from Yellowknife to Edmonton was via Hay River.

So you honestly believe that 5T recent service cuts and layoffs have nothing to do with West Jet and Jazz operating into yzf? You don't think that because those carriers make it unprofitable on one of their main runs that it won't effect their entire route system? Those cheap ticket prices have guys sitting at home now on layoff as a result. The entire plane's seats are probably not all based on a $75 dollar ticket, but currently all forty or so seats that they sell in that market are worth $75. How many people could possibly want to fly in a market of 20000 people.

Four1oh wrote:
Can someone explain how the people of the north 'lose' anything by real and healthy competition.... and choice?

Ummmm yeah, the north is more than just Yellowknife or Iqaluit. The rest of the communities will lose choice in competition when one of their main carriers go under. When they do go under it will have been as a direct result of the advent of the 75 dollar ticket and all those good paying jobs that those companies provide will go with it.

*sigh* poor 5T, poor Jetsgo, poor, Canada 3000, poor Canadi>n, poor ______.... protection comes from within. Evolve or die. Figure it out since the 'problem' as you see it, isn't going anywhere. Funny, as I left the north almost 7 years ago, glad to see nothing has changed, attitude-wise.

Four1oh wrote:Funny, as I left the north almost 7 years ago, glad to see nothing has changed, attitude-wise.

What hasn't changed is that you can't operate a nothern airline for the same cost as a southern one.

If none of you can understand the economics of this debate then this is waste of time.

Enjoy your weekend.

FICU wrote: What hasn't changed is that you can't operate a nothern airline for the same cost as a southern one.

If none of you can understand the economics of this debate then this is waste of time.

Exactly! They don't get it and they likely never will.

You have a niche product, one that no southern airline can offer. Isn't it obvious that YEG-YZF is not part of your niche product since any airline can operate that route? Nudge nudge wink wink.... this isn't rocket surgery guys...

Who says WJ's load factor to YZF is 30-40? You guys? Hmm, why should anyone believe you, some internet anonymous?

I thought this was about Jazz going to Iqaluit?

As far as JAZZ running into YFB in March, it's a free market. If a company feels they can make a run of it, there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. That's the beauty of our system. You play the game, you takes your chances. FULL DISCLOSURE: I work for one of the 2 Northern airlines, in case you hadn't figured it out.

That being said. If you don't think it costs more to operate in the North or that we're just using that as an excuse to "rape" the market on ticket prices....the last fuel slip I signed in a community north of YFB told me I had just signed for 2000 litres at $1.74 a liter. Whats the going price of jet fuel down south? I don't believe for second that its anything like that.

Now if you are one of the competing airlines making a move into the North and you aren't full of pax then I guess you can tanker alot of southern gas to YFB and reduce the impact of the fuel prices up here. On the other hand, we are typically heavy leaving YOW with freight and pax. The down side to that is that we have to take more expensive gas in YFB. Thats just a jab at the 30-40% load factors that are being thrown around here by the way.

I think 41 oh what you're seeing here is frustration. Frustration that people who choose to work in the North are losing their jobs to other companys who just want to cherry pick. And that's totally fair. Thats what competition is all about. But it is frustrating nonetheless.

And if I had wanted to work for JAZZ or WJ, I would have made that move in the 90s, but I love flying in the North and I guess I'll take my chances.

Hugs and kisses.....

ETTW

PS...I can hardly wait to see one of those JAZZ pilots getting of the RJ in YFB in February with -38 and 38 knots of wind.....in a rain coat Sorry, that was uncalled for and I take it back...NOT!!!

ettw wrote:PS...I can hardly wait to see one of those JAZZ pilots getting of the RJ in YFB in February with -38 and 38 knots of wind.....in a rain coat Sorry, that was uncalled for and I take it back...NOT!!!

lol... So true, but why would we need to get out of the plane? Everything gets delivered... the only reason I can think of is if our datalink didn't work and we couldn't print out some stuff from the flightdeck printer, then we call dispatch... no need to ever get out of the plane!

onspeed wrote:

bmc wrote:Get real the Hay River run was dropped years ago by Canadian International. There is no money in that run never has been any money in it. So don't go blaming West Jet and Jazz because they dropped Hay River and laid Pilots and ground crew off. The run eliminated from Yellowknife to Edmonton was via Hay River.

So you honestly believe that 5T recent service cuts and layoffs have nothing to do with West Jet and Jazz operating into yzf? You don't think that because those carriers make it unprofitable on one of their main runs that it won't effect their entire route system? Those cheap ticket prices have guys sitting at home now on layoff as a result. The entire plane's seats are probably not all based on a $75 dollar ticket, but currently all forty or so seats that they sell in that market are worth $75. How many people could possibly want to fly in a market of 20000 people.

That wasn't my quote.

FICU wrote:

Four1oh wrote:Funny, as I left the north almost 7 years ago, glad to see nothing has changed, attitude-wise.

What hasn't changed is that you can't operate a nothern airline for the same cost as a southern one.

If none of you can understand the economics of this debate then this is waste of time.

Enjoy your weekend.

I understand the economics very well.

What are the specific costs that are different?

So Jazz and West Jet can't come play up North but Canadian North can play down south. Maybe they should have stayed running in the North and Kept their Nose out of Fort Mac and running Edmonton to Calgary.

Get off the we are charging these rates because we look after the little communities. That is just straight B/S. The little guys were being looked after by First air just fine so why did Canadian North move in. Why wasn't there any big screaming happening when Canadian north started competing for a less money into the small communities.

moreccsplease wrote:

ettw wrote:PS...I can hardly wait to see one of those JAZZ pilots getting of the RJ in YFB in February with -38 and 38 knots of wind.....in a rain coat Sorry, that was uncalled for and I take it back...NOT!!!

lol... So true, but why would we need to get out of the plane? Everything gets delivered... the only reason I can think of is if our datalink didn't work and we couldn't print out some stuff from the flightdeck printer, then we call dispatch... no need to ever get out of the plane!

Um, don"t you do a walk around?

Of course, you got me there! Can't be much colder than a Winnipeg walk around.

And remember kids, 20 miles back, clear crisp day, through 12,500ft, a little cancelly cancelly of the ol' IFR is appreciated and we'll all get along famously.

I welcome the competition!

Our ops manual does not allow us to cancel IFR at night, so in the dark months you are SOL.

JazzJetDriver wrote:Our ops manual does not allow us to cancel IFR at night, so in the dark months you are SOL.

Your published arrival time is well within the limited daylight hours we recieve here in YFB during the "dark months", so.......

Changes in Latitudes wrote:And remember kids, 20 miles back, clear crisp day, through 12,500ft, a little cancelly cancelly of the ol' IFR is appreciated and we'll all get along famously.

BBB

JazzJetDriver wrote:Our ops manual does not allow us to cancel IFR at night, so in the dark months you are SOL.

Ya goin' to tha north pole then too, b'y? There's money to be made on Borek stuff!

Changes in Latitudes wrote:And remember kids, 20 miles back, clear crisp day, through 12,500ft, a little cancelly cancelly of the ol' IFR is appreciated and we'll all get along famously.

I welcome the competition!

If you don't cancel you will probably hear a somewhat subliminally sounding "cancel...." to remind you.

Cheers,

ETTW

PS on 21st dec sunrise is somewhere around 920 am and sunset is about 140 pm off the top of my head so you'll have lots of daylight to cancel

And to those of you living and working in Iqaluit...I am offering $200 dollars to the first person that swipe someone's Jazz HAT!

Ladies and Gentlemen, fellow colleagues, let the games begin.

Just check against the south fence in May, That's where they'll end up.

Will this take the record as the longest "cleared direct" IFR for you JAZZ types?

Cheers,

ETTW

Changes in Latitudes wrote:And to those of you living and working in Iqaluit...I am offering $200 dollars to the first person that swipe someone's Jazz HAT!

You know, for that price I'd happily mail you mine.

Straight up, if any of you JAZZ types get stuck in YFB for the night look us up and we'll show you around town and get you into the legion for a few tequila shots. Least we could do to welcome our competition properly to the market.

Cheers,

ETTW

oh my god, the Legion in Frob.

bmc wrote:oh my god, the Legion in Frob.

ETTW