Paging Algore! Cleanup in isle 7!

[2R]

Anyone ever read "The dance of the wu tang masters" ?

[Rockie]

What scientific fact is this magic number 2.0C you quote come from?

The 2 degree rise reminded me of a piece by Gwynne Dyer, who is not a climatologist but a geopolitical analyst of some repute. He has an interesting take on what will happen at 2 degrees.

http://www.gwynnedyer.com/articles/Gwyn ... 20Time.txt

http://thegauntlet.ca/story/11104

http://www.straight.com/article-173168/ ... ate-change

He's also cynical, but he doesn't take GW lightly as you can see.

[Check Pilot]

Rockie,

I'm not sure what convinced you to take the position you have, other than you seem committed to believe all the internet stuff you keep quoting. That kind of devotion to a cause is very commendable. I hope you keep it up because it certainly makes us "deniers" want to keep up with our, in your apparent opinion, rampant disregard for the truth. You also seem to believe the mainstream media that just continually keeps using the terms "global warming", climate change" and even worse, that evil word "carbon". I understand that you can become as misguided as you are because of some event that must have afflicted you with this belief. I do not know what led you down the wrong path about the truth about this global warming swindle now being attempted by the alarmists that really can't prove anything about what our future climate is going to do.

Now that the apparent truth about the data is out there, you need to look at it, even if the authors of the fudged numbers are admitting they --ghast-- did it to try to convince the world that it was in mortal danger of killing millions, causing worldwide disease and submerging whole cities and populations.

Algore also just said that the Alberta "tarsands" would kill the world because of the absolutely evil CO2 emitted by the production of energy from that evil oil. As one of your heroes, you can be proud of his stance. Is he one of your heros? If he is, you certainly have bought into the whole disingenuous blather that lets weak minded individuals buy into the left wing crap that tries to get innocent folks to pay for some mythical crisis that they don't have the spirit or intelligence to understand.

Rockie, I'm gonna say to you, global warming is NOT happening. Regardless of what you want to think. It ain't happening. Climate change IS happening however. It's normal stuff that happens every so often every hundred thousand years or so.

What it is, no one knows the future, but it's NOT gonna be man made regardless of how much CO2 we pump out. Your feeble attempts at trying to convince me, at least, that we are in a period of crisis for our atmosphere and our climate as it is for now, is to me merely some kind of mediocre attempt to either get attention for your poor misguided attempt to get some bunch of left wing nut folks to transfer our money to some undefined cause for no proven danger or an attempt to tax the crap out of legitimate folks trying to run a business.

So Rockie, you are wrong.

It's time for you to get off the nutcase climate change train that's now about to derail into a switchyard that's about to crash into those politically appointed "scientists" standing in the middle of the siding of a disused junkyard.

[Flyboy_high]

I do ask this, what if the billions of tons of CO2 and other pollutants into the do cause climate change? Once we do pass the 2.0C mark change will not be possible. We are currently sitting at about .7C increase. Will you all feel satisfied that you kept going about your life ignorant rather small?

I just find to much effort on an old way of thinking.
But then again, your presumable older generation made the mess, leave it up to us to clean up.
I could be wrong, I think you are, but regardless of that fact if we go towards out future with no change, who wins? Really…?

Who is truly ignorant here? The Global Warmers(oops I meant Climate Change since we're actually cooling right now), or the Skeptics(aka Heretics)? There's the million dollar question. What scientific fact is this magic number 2.0C you quote come from?[/quote




In winter it does tend to do that
And my scientific fact "Magic Number 2.0C" is exactly that. It is a prediction and not a conrete number however the margin on either side are minor %'s.
Btw, I also believe in UFo's, 911 Myths, Harper is a IBM robot , Jesus will come in the next 3 months and by 2012 were dead anyways.

I will be in Copenhagen this December to attend the conference.
Trying my best for a healthy and prosperous future for our Country and Planet.

[Rockie]

I'm not sure what convinced you to take the position you have, other than you seem committed to believe all the internet stuff you keep quoting.

Internet?

In this mornings paper, which in my town is an amalgam of stories from various new organizations and stories from around the world there were the following items related to global warming.

1. Starving polar bears (think canary in a coal mine) eating their young. Seems they can't get onto the ice until weeks after they normally do in order to feed. The thick stable ice they need to use as a hunting platform is disappearing at a rate of 70,000 square kms per year due to global warming.

2. A leading french wine industry group has warned that rising world temperatures have sped up harvests, altered the taste of some wines and made conditions in eastern Burgundy more "mediterranean". They say suitable growing areas are largely moving northward in Europe, and places like Britain and Denmark could one day produce more wine than they do.

3. Commonwealth leaders meeting in Trinidad this week are upping the ante and applying pressure to accomplish something in Copenhagen. They might just achieve something, and even Harper is now going because they've reached in his words a "critical mass" of leadership attendance.

Virtually none of this I read on the internet. How is it the massive concensus of scientific opinion is wrong, but you're right? Me, I'll put my faith in science and my common sense. Having been to Beijing, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, Toronto etc, and lived in other places so polluted it changes the local climate, I know that only an unthinking moron could believe we aren't hurting ourselves.

Greenhouse gases aren't a myth. They aren't the basis for a religion. The physical and chemical properties are a known fact, as are the concentrations of it in the atmosphere. Their overall effect on global warming is not in doubt by the scientific community, but measuring that effect takes time and predicting the exact effect 10, 20, 50 and 100 years into the future is not something we can do very well. The problem is the energy industry and their dupes (guess who that is)seize on every wrong estimate as ironclad proof that it doesn't exist and there is no problem. Just as you seize on one organization's shady way of dealing with the problem as proof that the planetary wide scientific community are frauds.

You guys belong on Fox news.

[beaverbob]

It is not Scientific consensus, it is political consensus. There is no scientific consensus, because there are thousands of atmospheric and environmental scientists who do not agree with the political conclusions, or with each others conclusions.
Bob

[Rockie]

It is not Scientific consensus, it is political consensus.

You have that completely backwards. It's been a scientific consensus for years now, and it is not quite yet a political one.

[bmc]

[JakeYYZ]

No Rockie, stop! Don't look behind that curtain!

[BoostedNihilist]

Virtually none of this I read on the internet. How is it the massive concensus of scientific opinion is wrong

There is no consensus

How can this even be science? Gathering up a bunch of data to show that there is a correlation is all good, but that is not science... correlation does not equal causation.. at least, that's what they taught me in first year uni sciences...

Also, there is also something else left out of this science...

No experiments (read models where the effect can be recreated and observed) have been conducted..... this is how you determine causation. Then, it ALL has to be independently repeatable.. which has not been done..

If this was really science it should really be provable without a shadow of a doubt, but it isn't. This is not because there are 'deniers' but because the data is incomplete... if the case was solid there WOULD be a consensus..

Now, it is very interesting how they call us 'deniers' What other circumstance do they use this term? Oh yeah, in regards to the holocaust. It is interesting that 'they' would decided to label us deniers.. it is almost like they are making a veiled comparison between those who do not believe in the holocaust and those who do not believe in global warming...

[Siddley Hawker]

Strange thing. Quirks & Quarks is the CBC Radio flagship science show. You would have thought that today's show would have at least a mention of the current climate e-mail controversy. There was nary a peep, but space was found for a segment on mammoth crap and pipefish.

http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/archives/09-10 ... 11-28.html

[The Old Fogducker]

See my post above regarding the individual reporters over-investment in the man-made global warming alarmist coverage.

They are suddenly sitting on the fence waiting for something ... anything ... to happen.

If further info comes forward, or the great unwashed Joe & Jane Public indicate through audience participation surveys they believe this whole venture is a hoax, the reporters will turn on the whole man-made GW movement because that's the way they are. Their entire public reputation as broadcast reporters now depends on what happens in the next few weeks.

So watch a station near you ... if they pull away from coverage because they have been duped and finally realize it, we'll see if they change the emphasis of their coverage. They will do it either through the use of less certain-sounding descriptors in the news copy, or they will ignore it altogether.

Some will "go down fighting" since their personal commitment to the cause is so strong it has replaced religious fanaticism .... they will throw themselves on their swords and kill themselves to defend man-made GW because their personal bent is toward being anti- business, anti-establishment, anti-consumerism society.

Oh and Rockie ... I never bought into the man-made aspect of this "settled debate" from square one because of the open lack of consensus as the movement was emerging, and watching broadcast journalist with whom I was personally acquainted go ga-ga because it seemed to be the flavour of the day.

I do know that volcanoes and especially forest fires put far more pollutants into the atmosphere than man ever could.

As a semi-avid outdoorsman, and hyper-avid fisherman, don't make the mistake of thinking I am all for dumping battery acid into my Rainbow and Brook Trout streams because I can make 50 cents a battery in recovered lead, or spewing toxic cancer-causing chemicals into the downtown core of our major cities.

I'm against the radical .... "We only have 2 weeks to save the earth" clowns that would have us waste hundreds of billions of dollars to equalize the lifestyles of all people worldwide, won't be satisfied until all of our industries are closed down, and we've gone back to even pre-horse and buggy days ... because after all, horses emit pollutants and consume resources.

I'm also repulsed by the sanctimonious jerks like Al Gore who engage in .... dare I say the words ... "Fear mongering" .... while using jets to fly from public speaking engagement to engagement, while tearing new openings for executives who do the same thing ... or his whole entourage of big stretch limos idling for hours outside of his performance venues.

Oh, but that's not only OK, they make it appear to be good for the planet because they buy carbon offset credits to undo "the perception" of damage to the environment. One of Canada's best Bozos ever ...Stephane Dion flew around in a 200 series 737 claiming it was just fine because they had bought some offsets ... gee whiz, whata guy.....sending money from his contributors off to some 5th world country to buy pottery wheels or something.

So perhaps we should live in that wonderful era for mankind ..... between invention of the wheel, domestication of animals, and planting of the first crops. We could roam the plains, interdependent and happy to leave only footprints in our wake.

Yes, I've posted this before, but the late George Carlin puts it into words very nicely .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw

OFD

[The Old Fogducker]

News Flash .... this just in .. ... an excellent article from one of my favourite Canadian broadcasters .... (a tiny, tiny ember of hope in the black hole that is the CBC) .... Rex Murphy. You'd better watch out though ... he uses those dreaded "big words" that some AvCanada readers find so difficult to struggle through.

OFD


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opi ... le1380872/

[AEROBAT]

Global warming is a heck of a lot better than global cooling, not that I believe we can do anything about the planets natural cycles anyway. The last time we had global cooling, the ice age, 90% of the mammals went extinct. There were ice sheets thousands of feet thick covering many parts of North America.

Has anyone else noticed it is usually pot heads who believe the CO2 crap?

[Rockie]

Hopeless.

Oh well, at least governments are slowly dawning to the seriousness of this even if a portion of the population isn't. Harper is stubbornly, and embarrassingly stuck in denial though which should please you guys to no end.

[JakeYYZ]

Strange thing. Quirks & Quarks is the CBC Radio flagship science show. You would have thought that today's show would have at least a mention of the current climate e-mail controversy. There was nary a peep, but space was found for a segment on mammoth crap and pipefish.

http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/archives/09-10 ... 11-28.html

Still more signs of AGW!! aaargh!

Pipefish Dads
In the broad-nosed pipefish world, it is the male who gets pregnant. After he fertilizes as many as 100 of the female's eggs, he takes them into a brood pouch on his tail, then shelters them until he hatches them several weeks later. But, some of the embryos mysteriously disappear during that brooding period. New research done by Gry Sagebakken, a Phd student from the Zoology Department at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden, has produced an answer. Through blood vessels in the brood pouch, the male cannibalizes some of his own embryos to give himself a boost of nutrition.

First the polar bears, now the pipefish.
(adult males routinely kill and eat young bears....always have always will....)

http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/archives/09-10 ... 11-28.html

[Check Pilot]

Rockie,

I know you won't want to see this (although it's been around for a long time now) and you will probably pull the old Colin Thatcher defense of deny, deny, deny after it's over. It takes an hour and a bit of your time and when you have seen it all, I would like to have all your denials, if you can come up with any, made here. Please be patient - it takes about 5 minutes or so to load up, but it's well worth the wait.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1391917

I anxiously await your response. Or will you just be silent and not respond because you realize that you have been so duped by the left wing nuts trying to run the whole climate change that you now realize you have to change your attitude?

[Check Pilot]

Much to my and OFD's delight, even our own liberal pig trough left wing CBC must have made a mistake and missed canceling this one and somehow had a renegade right wing producer slip this one by the communists in power at Toronna central mind control.

Have a look, --especially you Rockie.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... al+warming#

[Rockie]

I don't have time to look at that stuff right now but I promise I will. And I will keep an open mind about it as well.

For now I just wanted to give my analogy of how I see this. All of us are basically passengers on this planet just as if we were a bunch of passengers on an airplane. The pilots (climatologists) have just made an announcement that conditions where we are going are too unsafe and we need to divert. It will be an inconvenience, but most passengers accept his judgement because he's the guy who's trained, qualified and sitting up front paying attention while we watch our movie and eat our peanuts.

Some people sitting in the back though don't want to be inconvenienced. They loudly tell the pilot he doesn't know what he's talking about and that as far as they're concerned conditions are fine. Some of those loudmouthed blowhards even go as far as distributing a cartoonish petition for like minded blowhards to sign claiming to be Captains on A380's, 747's etc, saying they've looked at the data and think it's perfectly safe.

The problem now is that if we divert and land safely we are all alive and well, but the blowhards are still blowing hard saying we never had to divert and it was all a big waste of time and money. If the pilots relent and land at our original destination against their better judgement and don't happen to crash, the blowhards think they are right even though they have no clue how close we came to dying. The only way those blowhards will realize they were wrong is if we end up as smoking wreckage off the side of the runway.

When I'm sitting in the back of an airplane I don't pretend to know more than the guy driving even though I am a fully qualified pilot. When it comes to our environment I certainly am not going to pretend I know more than they do. Why do you?

And for those of you who don't think there is consensus on this, you should stop believing everything you read on the internet. Because you're only reading what you want to read, and guys like Imhofe et al get their paycheque from people who do not want the good thing they have going threatened.

[scm]

I believe the new Copenhagen Diagnosis is out. I haven't had time to read it yet but it looks like it might be interesting.

http://www.copenhagendiagnosis.com/exec ... mmary.html

[ogc]

Algae can be grown in salt water, fresh water and even semi treated waste water. It sucks CO2 out of the air just by growing it. It has a growth and production cycle in as little as 10 days.
:

You do realize that has been listed as one of the major negatives of climate change right?

Algae blooms choke the oceans. They are bad.

[JakeYYZ]

This is now a full-on shit-sandwich!

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.
It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.
The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.
The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.
The admission follows the leaking of a thousand private emails sent and received by Professor Phil Jones, the CRU’s director. In them he discusses thwarting climate sceptics seeking access to such data.
The CRU is the world’s leading centre for reconstructing past climate and temperatures.Climate change sceptics have long been keen to examine exactly how its data were compiled. That is now impossible.
Roger Pielke, professor of environmental studies at Colorado University, discovered data had been lost when he asked for original records. “The CRU is basically saying, ‘Trust us’. So much for settling questions and resolving debates with science,” he said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 936328.ece

I think it was Nick Danger who said; “There’s a well established legal principle called ‘fruit of the poisonous tree’. Tainted evidence (either through careless or wilful negligence) is discarded and the inference drawn by that evidence is stricken from the record.” The same standard should be used here.

[AEROBAT]

Coal is the ultimate bio-fuel, after all it is made out of vegitation. So to do my part I am going to heat my hanger with it this winter.

[BoostedNihilist]

Just think about what every one of us exhales....

Imagine if we could tax carbon dioxide

[The Old Fogducker]

You mean Nick Danger, ...... Third Eye?

"Nancy, what's the birds-eye lowdown on this caper?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5XfXECpU6w part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=200erlAHzU8 part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEltFvygT0c part 3

Boosted ... taxing our presence on earth is exactly what is behind "Cap and Trade" also called cap and tax ....... you .... yes, you ... are personally responsible for killing who knows how many of who knows what .... just by breathing, and expelling gasses from other orifices ... and who cares what "it" is that you've killed with your breath anyway, as long as they can tax it in the name of saving mother earth ... after all, she is in the process of being raped don't ya know..

OFD