AC selects Boeing 777s and 787

[Yoyoma]

What are these numerous other issues you know? Unless you work for ILFC or Airbus, I have my doubt that your inside information is much more insightful than these dog scraps we are fed.

helmetfire, as far as I'm concerned, I could sit here and pretend I'm Boeing’s CEO or Virgin's chairman. It's the power of the internet.

I just don't happen to post stuff I no nothing about. I quit Airbus early 2005 and the info you have is the same info Airbus has. You might work for Cathay fo instance but the fact of the matter is, if we don't agree right now, it's because Cathay didn't send in the proper information through our CFGs? No? That's the info they (Airbus) work with.

And really, you shouldn't be differentiating between the 345-346 because they are the same machine. Just configured differently.

As far as other issues with the A345-6, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to start posting confidential information on a public forum or even releasing them.

But as you are well aware, no aircraft flies without problems, the challenge on a machine such as the 380 is to not repeat similar issues found in large aircraft such as the A340 as well as to create and integrate systems without any functionality issue.

Anyhow, take what I say with a grain of salt and a crack of pepper, because the internet will be the internet and you don't have to believe me or anyone else here on this forum.

Cheers

[Lost in Saigon]

Yoyoma:

I really don't see how you can say that the A340-500 and A340-600 are the same machine.

the same machine. Just configured differently

They are quite different. http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=28

Saying that they are the same machine just invaldidates everything you have ever said. At least for me anyway.........

Please explain.

[Yoyoma]

I'm speaking from the Corporation's point of view and you're speaking from a pilot's point of view. I think most of you won't understand anyway because I use manufacturing language while you use pilot language.

Configured differently = ACRM (Airbus Configuration Management Rules) with dictate anything from the lenght of a winglet that might affect trust to the lavatory which might affect W&B. The A318 is equivalent to the A340-5 in terms of ACMR, being a byproduct of an Airbus Programme and not a development on it's own.

Better?

[Lost in Saigon]

Sorry, not better, you are losing me.............

[Yoyoma]

A430-600 Development Program

-Rich men talk
-Blow money money money
-Nerds draw pictures and use calculators, stay working very late
-Lots of New thingies created, very hard drawings
-Test test test, draw again if No No or use on big plane Yes Yes
-Glue thingies together and give to Germans
-Destroy the thingies, Aviation Cops happy?
-Glue more thingies, don't give to Germans
-Pay orange uniformed man to fly the thingies
-Be very scared of a crash
-Wow, it flies...You can't believe it.
-Sell so you can fly people on them

A340-500 Development

-Rich men talk (some giggle) pretend new program is lauched
-Invest money, money, money
-Nerds photocopy pictures of A340-600
-Nerds use erasers and coloured pens to modify thingies
-Test the coloured thingies, don't test the photocopied thingies
-Glue thingies together, don't give to Germans
-Pay orange uniformed man to fly the thingies
-Eat steak & fries while watching uniformed man to fly the thingies
-You already know it flies
-Sell so you can fly people on them

I'm sorry, couldn't resist Check the First flight dates for both and what I just wrote will make sense to you...

[Rebel]

Yoyoma

Hmm I rather enjoy your posts. I’ve had first hand experience with Airbus when we first got the 320. The software was a work in motion something I had not experienced on the 767 and trying to get it fixed was problematic because of the Airbus arrogant attitude. Basically they were right and every one else was wrong besides what would a bunch of dumb pilots know about it anyway. The Airbus culture at the time was bad and unfortunately even though it has improved considerably it takes time to erase the memory of the arrogant treatment completely.

I was among the first to be trained on the 340 and it was just a minor mess mostly due to politics within our flight operations and interference from some TC inspectors who lacked the necessary experience to be checking us. Wow did that ever cost us a fortune..However it has been my experience on both occasions that Airbus overstated the performance aspect of their product especially when compared to Boeing who always understated their promised performance data.

That been said having flown both the Bus and Boeing what a wonderful experience and one I hope every pilot gets a chance to try.

[Yoyoma]

Hey Rebel,

I try my best to clarify rumours about Airbus but I don't like to pretend that they're perfect. Often, users on this board will jump to conclusions about a company just because they glanced at a Globe & Mail article. It makes it hard for people who live the day to day life struggle of a company to make their points valid.

Take Air Canada for instance, how many here criticise Milton and the Co. ? It's so easy to read the summary of a financial report and pretend you could have done better...The fact of the matter is, people who run these companies have experience, education and the know-how but not everyone has the magic touch (or the luck) to ride the waves of uncertainty and the economic obstacles set by the market.

So I try my best to sound factual and not biased (it's hard because emotion sets in) but all in all, the facts are there for Boeing and Airbus.

Here's my take on it. I grew up as a Boeing fan. I still love their product and would give a left arm to power a 777 down a runway. But I'm not in that league. When I left flying, I had only experienced light turbines and ever since, the closest I came was the A380 static Simulator.

Boeing is a tried and tested company. They've been around forever and through many M&As, they've acquired extensive experience in A/C manufacturing. Most of their products were built using the same technologies (of course, evolved technologies) but their experience was there to guarantee results. This is the primary reason why their specs are on the ball but also the reason why the typical North American car interior looks like a 1980 model.

Airbus, a much younger company, has struggled to innovate. Why? Because without innovation, they did not stand a chance against Boeing. With innovation comes risk. The lack of maturity of the engineering departments combined with the high risk caused by innovation is a major factor to take into account when the A/C doesn't meet the specs. Airbus has gambled with newer machines (technology wise) and now pays the price of its success. Hopefully, with the new 787, Boeing will learn how to gauge and measure the risk involved in a new aircraft.

Through the years, Boeing has moved into Airbus' direction while Airbus has moved into Boeing's. They both spy on each other and make sure they are informed on the newest technologies available.

The arrogance you refer to is something I experienced when I left for France. I was used to the Canadian way of life and was extremely shocked when confronted with this European (typically French) attitude. Even Germans and British often complain of this arrogance and know it all attitude. I believe the move is the right direction because with the Trans-national integration, Airbus has integrated many cultures and therefore minimised the impact of a single culture on the product (and Way of Working).

It is still challenging to work in such an environment and I faced dilemmas that Boeing workers could not even imagine. A typical example: A management meeting, for drumbeat purposes gathering around the table many department heads for each A/C major component. This entailed having British, French, Germans, Spanish, Americans, etc. in the conference room. Some decision would be taken regarding deadlines for a specific action or project. This decision was acknowledged by everyone.

The British will always say yes, great we’ll do it. It never gets done…
The French will say Never, we won’t do it, they end up doing it…
The Spanish will look dazed and confused, but will managed to pull it of with some delays…
The Germans will say we don’t understand. Once they grasp the concept, they deliver A1 work on-time, on-cost on-quality…

See how regular work can become quite challenging due to culture…I wouldn’t trade the experience I got over there for the world (maybe to power down that 777…) I have now moved on but shared the emotions when I saw the A380 fly.

I hope both companies will keep producing marvellous machine for us to enjoy…

Cheers