complexintentions wrote:I highly doubt WS will ever have widebody a/c in their fleet, but it's fun to speculate about. I know there are many expat widebody captains overseas like myself who would be quite happy to come back and assist with a widebody startup.
I'm sure that the mainline pilots would have no problem with initial crewing being done completely off the street, just like Encore...
I'd be willing to bet WS will. It's certainly been mentioned many many times by our Executive.
Ya........I remember the 767 model in Westjet colours on Tim Morgan's desk ..........in 2002.
Don't hold your breath.
flyer 1492 wrote:Ah yes the very old ploy on how to keep the employees (pilots in general) motivated. Management pulls this one out of their proverbial hat every few years and everyone falls all over themselves. It's good for laugh or two.
This is hilarious. I haven't heard a single WJ pilot talk about this "ploy". The only discussion about bigger airplanes that I ever heard was about the fact that IF WJ ever got bigger airplanes they would be flown by WJ pilots. I believe they have it in writing. The only people seeing this "ploy"would be the truly bitter, twisted and jealous souls like yourself.
WestJet doesn't appear to have any issues keeping their pilots motivated.
I heard that 787s AC doesnt want anymore (due to the pursut of its new low-cost model) are going to Westjet. Probably just as soon as Boeing figures out how to strap 150-200 laptop batteries together.
Concurrent with this development is the proven rumors that in a secret ceremony select westjet captains drank the blood of their firstborn to prove their alegiance to the teal cult and in so doing secured their positions on the '87. Repeat in monotone...
I Love my job... I LOVE MY JOB
The job is my life.... THE JOB IS MY LIFE I drink this firstborn blood I DRINK THIS FIRSTBORN BLOOD
flyer 1492 wrote:Ah yes the very old ploy on how to keep the employees (pilots in general) motivated. Management pulls this one out of their proverbial hat every few years and everyone falls all over themselves. It's good for laugh or two.
This is hilarious. I haven't heard a single WJ pilot talk about this "ploy". The only discussion about bigger airplanes that I ever heard was about the fact that IF WJ ever got bigger airplanes they would be flown by WJ pilots. I believe they have it in writing. The only people seeing this "ploy"would be the truly bitter, twisted and jealous souls like yourself.
WestJet doesn't appear to have any issues keeping their pilots motivated.
Does anyone care what some bitter, asshole jazz pilot thinks?
I heard from someone in the training department that the flow through to mainline will be 1 in 4. So if a load of people have been hired already for encore, then you could be in for a long wait for a move to mainline!
Yes, one in four is a bare minimum up to and including four in four, or for the challenged 100 in 100, or for those that are "outside the box" type thinkers 3/4 in 3/4.
For flow through type agreements its outstanding. For both the company AND prospective pilots. Ya some flexibility is required but thats a given at Westjet.
HAVE FUN THERE AT WELFARE REGIONAL BOYS!!!!!!!! MAKING THE BIG BUCKS NOW!!!! HAHAHAHA.
OLD ERN'S STILL LOVIN IT RAKING IN THE BIG DOUGH PUTTIN HER DOWN LIKE A BUTTERFLY WITH SORE FEET ON THEM NORTHERN SHORT STRIPS WITH ALL THE LADIES AND BUDWEISER I COULD ASK FOR!!!
THE LESSON?
BE LIKE BIG ERN AND TELL THEM WELFARE REGIONAL BUMS TO SHOVE IT!!!! I MADE MORE DOUGH THAN THAT AS A SWAMPER ON THE OTTER MY FIRST YEAR IN THE BUSH!!! WHEN I WAS 17. HAHAHAHA.
Just look back 10 years to the LOU between Jazz/AC. The number of pilots AC took was dependent upon crewing requirements between the companies. If Jazz was short on guys and not filling seats fast enough the flow through was less. Seems to be much the case here. If Encore is expending quickly and needs lots of crews the flow through might be small at 1/4 or 2/4 rather then say 10 years down the road when they are established and expansion has dropped. Who knows though, just my thoughts.
So, from a "cost saving" oriented company, you really think they will be able/willing to take more than 25% (if that's their minimum) of the crew onto mainline? The training costs would be astronomical. Anyone here HOPING it will be more than that.. keep drinking the water/sugar/lemon mixture (cool aid is too expensive!)
I do agree that the first round of hires will have it good.. you may not get on a jet, but at least you will probably make captain... but in 1-2 years there's going to either be a fundamental shift at Encore (wage increase) or a fundamental shift at Jazz/Porter (wage decrease).
There's something to be said for guys who have "topped out" at their current jobs and want to move to bigger and/or more earning potential but in a few years, this advantage will be lost. (The ability to move guys from shit pay to above standard pay).
I honestly doubt that anyone in the system right now will complain 3 years from now but it's coming. The reason WJ (when it started) didn't get a union is because most of the guys running the show were also flying the show... they had a vested interest in the betterment of the company as a whole. WJ does NOT have the same stakes in Encore.
Ultimately time will tell... I just hope I don't end up having to PAY to fly....
Flows and such aren't agreed to unless the bean counters model them. Needless to say, flow can be difficult if one or the other downsizes and other complications such as holiday transferring or when the flow occurs for manpower planning etc.
One thing is for certain, wj and encore are both in agreement that the "more the better" philosophy is the way they want to go. Moral etc is worth it. If you get on at encore you will get on at wj. There are a lot of retirements coming, still a lot of growth if the economy holds and they are working on some cool stuff above and below present day wj. Not to mention, flying new airplanes and working at encore will likely be a pretty good job. If guys are stuck on 80 hrs a month at 38 and 68 bucks an hour then don't come. There is a lot of other stuff that goes with it. I fail to see having a union in the past, now or in the future would change anything. That's a whole different debate.
Ernie Cryinghead wrote:HAVE FUN THERE AT WELFARE REGIONAL BOYS!!!!!!!! MAKING THE BIG BUCKS NOW!!!! HAHAHAHA.
OLD ERN'S STILL LOVIN IT RAKING IN THE BIG DOUGH PUTTIN HER DOWN LIKE A BUTTERFLY WITH SORE FEET ON THEM NORTHERN SHORT STRIPS WITH ALL THE LADIES AND BUDWEISER I COULD ASK FOR!!!
THE LESSON?
BE LIKE BIG ERN AND TELL THEM WELFARE REGIONAL BUMS TO SHOVE IT!!!! I MADE MORE DOUGH THAN THAT AS A SWAMPER ON THE OTTER MY FIRST YEAR IN THE BUSH!!! WHEN I WAS 17. HAHAHAHA.
748 Ho I was wondering what happend to you...or do we have a copycat?
business is business, that’s why they sniff. They do absolutely nothing. I’ve been with teamsters, alpa and acpa...absolutely nothing they(wj) cant do in house. Sunwing couldn’t do anything with the outside help, scope etc here....sky regional....westwind etc...the list goes on and on....in fact wj just subscribes to and goes to alpa sponsored functions for resource including pilot assistance, participates in jumpseats etc etc....if anything you get a stressed worker to employer relation... you might as well put a maple leaf on the tail if wj ever got a union. all this rhetoric of bigger tools and protecting against negligence is bs. Ask guys who have lost their jobs due to a shutdown or been laid off, how the union helped. Even here with cupe etc, you fire someone on probation for example...you aint getting them back. this group is far better off to develop their relationship on their own.(as they are) if they need more written down on paper to make some feel better then fine....do it on your own. I have seen no good evidence on why wj needs the support of a union. so fill us in ol dash 8! what do you observe that we dont? what is your experience with unions and westjet? you got my curiosity!
