Air Tindi Fatal TSB Report To Be Released March 20, 2013

[Colonel Sanders]

The report mentions that - dope smoking aside for a moment -
that he, of course, as an instrument rated pilot, in an IFR-equipped
airplane, HAD THE OPTION when the wx deteriorated, of climbing
without a clearance into cloud to a safe altitude, and performing an
approach to his destination. Heck, he might have been able to get
a pop-up. Oops, sorry, forgot, we don't do pop-ups in Canada.
Pop-up clearances are EVIL and don't you forget it.

Anyways, as a good Canadian, he would rather die than get a
registered letter from Enforcement.

The lesson that this accident teaches us that it's always better to die,
than to risk possibly getting your licence suspended.

Don't go near that cloud, boy, because WE'RE GONNA GET YOU!

[Heinz57]

This report really throws the pilot under the bus.

Northern operators like for you to push fuel and VFR weather. If you don't do it, they'll find some other guy to do it.

Boy o boy. I've been here in there North since 1983, I have never been pressured to do that s***. You must have been working at the wrong places!

[godsrcrazy]

The report mentions that - dope smoking aside for a moment -
that he, of course, as an instrument rated pilot, in an IFR-equipped
airplane, HAD THE OPTION when the wx deteriorated, of climbing
without a clearance into cloud to a safe altitude, and performing an
approach to his destination. Heck, he might have been able to get
a pop-up. Oops, sorry, forgot, we don't do pop-ups in Canada.
Pop-up clearances are EVIL and don't you forget it.

Anyways, as a good Canadian, he would rather die than get a
registered letter from Enforcement.

The lesson that this accident teaches us that it's always better to die,
than to risk possibly getting your licence suspended.

Don't go near that cloud, boy, because WE'RE GONNA GET YOU!

I respectfully disagree. The fact that he flew from Fort Simpson to Yellowknife (Radar controlled) in IMC tells me he wasn't scared to get caught. I would suspect he flew this Scheduled route several times and felt he knew it like that back of his hand and thats what aided his decision to .. run. The other fact that has not been brought up is he was breaking rules in a single engine aircraft flying low enough if he lost the engine he could not glide to land. I wonder how many time this was done even when the weather was legal VFR. 1000' and 3 miles he still would not make the shore as the report pointed out.

[thatlowtimer]

So if that wx was 0/0 and he had an engine failure at point x at 10000' he would have a less than 50% chance of getting to a shore because of all the lakes around here. Not only that, but unfortunately the terrain is quite unforgiving for le' land plane.

As for the VFR comments, someone explain as to why it's "dangerous".

[godsrcrazy]

So if that wx was 0/0 and he had an engine failure at point x at 10000' he would have a less than 50% chance of getting to a shore because of all the lakes around here. Not only that, but unfortunately the terrain is quite unforgiving for le' land plane.

As for the VFR comments, someone explain as to why it's "dangerous".

You would have to ask the FAA and MOT why they certified single engine aircraft for IFR flight just for that reason not me. Makes no sence to me how you can have all the faith in the world to certify single engine IFR on the basis of track record of the turbine but when your VFR you have to maintain safe gliding distance. I don't write the rules i only follow them. The fact is it is another block in the pyramid lead up to this happening.

[Commonwealth]

Looks like Darwin took care of this pilot. Unfortunately his passengers paid for his mistakes, so I hope they and their families can find justice.

[Redneck_pilot86]

So if that wx was 0/0 and he had an engine failure at point x at 10000' he would have a less than 50% chance of getting to a shore because of all the lakes around here. Not only that, but unfortunately the terrain is quite unforgiving for le' land plane.

As for the VFR comments, someone explain as to why it's "dangerous".

You would have to ask the FAA and MOT why they certified single engine aircraft for IFR flight just for that reason not me. Makes no sence to me how you can have all the faith in the world to certify single engine IFR on the basis of track record of the turbine but when your VFR you have to maintain safe gliding distance. I don't write the rules i only follow them. The fact is it is another block in the pyramid lead up to this happening.

Where in the rules does it specify that you only have to maintain gliding distance to shore when VFR?

[Rudy]

This chart seems to indicate what some in this thread have already concluded. To have that much THC in his blood he must have smoked the marijuana right before the flight.

I'm having a real problem imagining someone would be this reckless. Especially in terrible weather and with other innocent people on board.

Some googling this morning led me to some reports of anomalously high THC blood levels being found in victims of traumatic death. As to why this might be, this medical report (http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/7/538.long) states that "It may be possible that the delta9-THC concentration in the fatty tissues was quite high, and, after death or during the death struggle, a portion of unchanged delta9-THC was released back into the blood as a result of the bodily decomposition processes known to have occurred in this case."

I know I may be grasping at straws here, and that I'm not a TSB accident investigator. But if what their report implies is true then it would truly be a new low point for professional pilots in Canada. To land from another flight, load up passengers, smoke a joint, and take off again into inclement weather is just unthinkable.

[frozen solid]

Oh for F$%ks sake would you guys shut up. The guy was tripping balls and he flew a plane. What else do you want to know? Go ahead and be all pro-dope and argue about gliding or the air regs. The kid didn't glide into that hill, he flew into the hill after a series of decisions, each one of which every pilot here who has had a job like that has made*, but all of which added up to a silly, avoidable accident in which all signs point to "impaired decision-making ability" or, if you prefer, "should have stayed in bed". For decades people who call themselves "bush pilots" have made decisions like that, including the decision to get fucked-up before flight, and have either got lucky or paid the price. This time the guy paid the price, and I hope he likes the fiddlers' green. In the immortal words of "fathead", "sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. This time, he sure did". People have acted this way for years, and nowadays we try not to let them get away with it.

Who cares if it's legal to fly over water in a Caravan beyond gliding distance from shore. Even if it is, you probably shouldn't do it anyway if you are stoned.

* other than the being stoned thing

[Tim]

Who cares if it's legal to fly over water in a Caravan beyond gliding distance from shore. Even if it is, you probably shouldn't do it anyway if you are stoned.

pretty much sums it up

[Donald]

Vfr vs ifr

The rnav approach at ylk has a minimum of 567 feet, and at the time there was a pirep of ceilings at 4-600 feet. Meanwhile, it's legal to fly vfr, under the ops spec, at 300 feet with 1 mile of vis.

Tsb report says he wasn't load limited to carry ifr fuel, but there was no mention of the return payload.

If it was me, after turning around, I would have climbed up and requested a pop-up clearance into yzf. Which I believe is still allowed in Canada.

And he was stoned.

[Mr. North]

This chart seems to indicate what some in this thread have already concluded. To have that much THC in his blood he must have smoked the marijuana right before the flight.

I'm having a real problem imagining someone would be this reckless. Especially in terrible weather and with other innocent people on board.

Some googling this morning led me to some reports of anomalously high THC blood levels being found in victims of traumatic death. As to why this might be, this medical report (http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/7/538.long) states that "It may be possible that the delta9-THC concentration in the fatty tissues was quite high, and, after death or during the death struggle, a portion of unchanged delta9-THC was released back into the blood as a result of the bodily decomposition processes known to have occurred in this case."

I know I may be grasping at straws here, and that I'm not a TSB accident investigator. But if what their report implies is true then it would truly be a new low point for professional pilots in Canada. To land from another flight, load up passengers, smoke a joint, and take off again into inclement weather is just unthinkable.

Interesting find. I also find his levels of intoxication to be extreme. Was he smoking continuously on his three days off or did he actually blaze right before his flight? I've met some dopers in aviation but to blaze before a flight under those conditions is, as Rudy says, truly unthinkable. That being said, there is no question he was a user. This should be a glaring lesson to all those who think it's okay to partake in this weekend activity. Just watch kids, as Air Tindi and the pilot's family are taken to the cleaners...

[MUSKEG]

Don't want to hijack this but this young man was 21 I believe so in no way, shape or form is his family responsible for his actions and if A/T can show due diligence then what more can you do. Lawyers are gonna get richer on this one for sure. They're will be lots of mud slinging and finger pointing.

[Colonel Sanders]

Yeah, I guess I'm just not as good a pilot as you
are, because I don't fly into hills stoned

My point was that flying out of gliding distance of
land was the least of this guy's worries but obviously
that was well beyond your comprehension level.

[J31]

He was not worried about anything or had any rational thoughts........he was stoned!

[flyinthebug]

I'm curious as to how you got ahold of this and posted some of its contents, word for word, before it was offically released? This report really throws the pilot under the bus. So the guy burned one down at some point in time, and it cost him his life.. unfortunately its difficult to tell if he was under the influence at the time of the accident, all it determines is that he had it in his system.. An execution of an amended D&A policy of course will help mitigate the risk indeed, and I believe it is the correct route, its unfortunate that an accident had to occur before such a course of action was taken. Also regarding testing I have heard that Tindi does random testing to employees beyond the inital hire test. Sad and unfortunate occurance that could have been easily avoided had SOPs been followed.. there is a reason they are there.

Like has been said, change your avatar Mr 7 posts in 6 years!

Your casual approach to this accident is scary! "so the guy burned one down"? Did you even READ the toxicology report? That level of THC doesnt come from "burnin one down" at a party the previous weekend, it comes from extensive and extended use of MJ. This is just one link in the chain, but an important one.

Oh and PS... Lose the avatar!!

Fly safe and SOBER all.

[baron_dude]

Lots of sober people fly into hills too....not saying his activities didn't play a role, but maybe we shouldn't discount all the other factors as well.

[xsbank]

The lawsuits will likely focus on the fact that the pilot knowingly broke at least one law. There might also be some issues with lack of operational oversight at the time but I'm not legally trained.
I do not think you can consider other possible accident causes in isolation, disregarding the fact that this pilot was seriously impaired and therefore his medical and his license was void making his presence in that cockpit completely illegal. If it was my family member on that plane I might even be looking for criminal negligence except that the guy is dead so I don't know if there is any point.

By the way, unless this guy was a new employee, I'll bet others that worked there knew he was a user - how many 'others' are still using?

If that outfit intends to keep flying and I were the chief pilot I would immediately drug-test every employee...

[godsrcrazy]

So if that wx was 0/0 and he had an engine failure at point x at 10000' he would have a less than 50% chance of getting to a shore because of all the lakes around here. Not only that, but unfortunately the terrain is quite unforgiving for le' land plane.

As for the VFR comments, someone explain as to why it's "dangerous".

You would have to ask the FAA and MOT why they certified single engine aircraft for IFR flight just for that reason not me. Makes no sence to me how you can have all the faith in the world to certify single engine IFR on the basis of track record of the turbine but when your VFR you have to maintain safe gliding distance. I don't write the rules i only follow them. The fact is it is another block in the pyramid lead up to this happening.

Where in the rules does it specify that you only have to maintain gliding distance to shore when VFR?

This is directly from the TSB report for those that did not read the report. I didn't write the report our make the rules.

Over-water operations

The glide distance chart in the Cessna 208B Pilot's Operating Handbook indicates that at 1000 feet agl, the glide range is 2 nm with cargo pod installed. From 500 feet agl, the glide range is 1 nm. On the direct track to Lutsel K'e flown by C-GATV, the aircraft would have to cross 11 nm of open water from a point less than 1 nm east of the accident site (Appendix A). In the event of engine failure at 1000 feet agl, the aircraft would have been beyond gliding distance of land for the 7 nm in the middle of the crossing. CAR 602.62 requires that no aircraft shall operate over water beyond a point where it cannot reach shore in the event of an engine failure unless personal floatation devices are carried for all occupants. The Air Tindi single-engine land aircraft did not carry personal floatation devices. The company operations manual required pilots to abide by all CARs, including the requirement to remain within gliding distance of land.

Local pilots of single-engine aircraft en route at low level from Yellowknife to Lutsel K'e commonly reduced their exposure to overwater flight by diverting about 10 nm to the south in order to remain near land. To execute this diversion from the point of the accident, the pilot would be required to make more than a 90-degree turn to the right and backtrack to the southwest.

On the previous flight, AT222, the aircraft crossed 9 nm of open water over the North Arm of Great Slave Lake. At the midpoint of the crossing, the aircraft at 1000 feet agl and with a gliding distance of 2 nm was beyond gliding distance of land in the event of an engine failure.

[thatlowtimer]

An engine failure didn't cause this accident, the only reason that they even included this information in the report is to show his willingness to break the law. Same with the little bit on leaving YFS and flying VFR in the clouds, it's irrelevant to the accident.

[godsrcrazy]

Yes i know that this was not the cause of the accident. What this proves is this pilot had a total disregard for the rules. One has to wonder how many times this has happened not just with this pilot. According to the report these aircraft are equipped with Tracking devices. So obviously the company either never used it to keep track of what their pilots are doing. Our they knew and condoned it. This brings me to another question. Was there a repercussion to Tindi O/C. They obviously had some operational control issues. In one 6 hour period this guy broke the rules at least 4 times.

[Big Bird Anonymous]

I think this case is virtually a 1-of in Canadian aviation. It is impossible to argue that the pilot did anything right, moral or ethical that day but having said that, I know for an absolute fact that there have been dozens of accidents/incidents in Canada over the past 20 years alone where the pilot(s) were hung over to the point of absolute impairment and those that were lucky enough to survive to tell the story should be in a rehab program and suspended indefinately from flying.

Alcholism in aviation is rampant and this one accident on media hype alone will once again shroud the fact that alcoholics are silently accepted throughout the "guild".

[MrWings]

Can someone explain to me this particularly Canadian
horror of clouds?

Because in Canada, for the majority months of the year, clouds means icing. And if your aircraft isn't equiped to deal with icing (like the one in your picture) then it is bad news. Simple really.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Alcholism in aviation is rampant and this one accident on media hype alone will once again shroud the fact that alcoholics are silently accepted throughout the "guild".

Exactly, and it stretches the imagination to think that regular stoners do it in isolation and no one knows about it.

were hung over to the point of absolute impairment and those that were lucky enough to survive to tell the story should be in a rehab program and suspended indefinately from flying.

I am an alcoholic who went through a treatment program, should I have been suspended from flying after the treatment program was over?

[MrWings]

What really stands out to me is the amount of THC in his system. Dissecting the report leads me to believe he burned one back between flights. Anybody else read that into it?

Or during flight? I wonder if they would have tested passengers (both dead and alive) for drugs?