Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

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flyinthebug
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by flyinthebug »

azimuthaviation wrote:So using stolen passports is less of a risk of being stopped than getting in an aircraft when you are on so called watch list? Does Malaysia even have a terrorist watch list?
Updates (ATC suggesting the plane may have turned back towards Kuala Lumpur)...and an answer to your question about watchlists and how they got through security.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/09/world/asi ... index.html
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azimuthaviation
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by azimuthaviation »

Additionally, no inquiry was made by Malaysia Airlines to determine if any passengers on the flight were traveling on stolen passports, he said. Many airlines do not check the database, he said.

But just try to get on board with a tube of toothpaste :roll:
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cncpc
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by cncpc »

Some good points made in this Guardian article...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -black-box
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ahramin
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by ahramin »

I don't think that article makes any good points at all.

There is a frenzy of social media speculation. Who cares? Is this something we want to spend money preventing?

It takes a long time to know what happened. While I'm sure this is frustrating to reporters who just want to bang out something, anything, without having to research anything about it and without having to follow up on what they wrote, again who cares? An investigation does take a long time, and having a small sample of the fdr data instantly is not going to change that. We're still going to need the fdr and cvr data in it's entirety, so what would a small snapshot do other than fuel the speculation that we apparently want to prevent?

Should oceanic aircraft have SPOT trackers? In the past I would have said no, but in view of the last couple oceanic crashes maybe it should be mandated for aircraft without ADS-C.
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cncpc
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by cncpc »

There's a lot of good stuff in that article, and a good canvassing of why it should and maybe can't be done.

If this was a hijacking or some other interference in the cockpit, and it may be linked to future events, then your theory of waiting till the black boxes being found isn't a great one.
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cncpc
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by cncpc »

It was always a question how an Asian could use an Italian or Austrian passport...

This from the Guardian now...quoting some bloke from Malaysia
Malaysia’s home minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi has also slammed immigration officials over border control checks.

“I am still perturbed. Can’t these immigration officials think? Italian and Austrian but with Asian faces,” he told state news agency Bernama in comments that appear to have been made late on Sunday.

“We will conduct an internal probe, particularly on the officers, who were on duty at the KLIA Immigration counter during flight MH370.”

“I am still puzzled how come (immigration officers) cannot think, an Italian and Austrian (passengers) but with Asian facial features,” he told reporters.
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bmc
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by bmc »

Are you people serious? Do all Asians have Asian passports? Are there any Canadians that look Asian? Have any of you been to Vancouver?

I worked with a Swedish lady who was born South Korean and adopted by a Swedish family. Korean face, Swedish accent.

I can't believe, in this day and age, that an Asian face could not have an Italian passport. You might want to get and travel a bit. It's enlightening.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by ahramin »

There are almost 200 000 ethnic Chinese people living in Italy.

But yes, I suppose if your idea of an African is this:
Image
and an italian is this:
Image
then it would make sense to detain all Italians who look like this:
Image
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bmc
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by bmc »

Abraham, in for the win. :mrgreen:
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complexintentions
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by complexintentions »

While I appreciate the need for some people to leap to the ramparts the moment they even sense that maybe someone is intimating something that could be remotely construed as "racist", I interrupt the PC circle-jerk to point out that this is the Italian whose passport was stolen:

Image

So, if the person presenting this passport at MH370 did indeed have an Asian face, then I do submit that it is a perfectly valid question as to why he was allowed to pass. It's sorta a basic principle of ID checks, the pretty picture is supposed to resemble the person holding it. Which is pretty much what the news article stated.
Malaysia’s home minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi has also slammed immigration officials over border control checks.

“I am still perturbed. Can’t these immigration officials think? Italian and Austrian but with Asian faces,” he told state news agency Bernama in comments that appear to have been made late on Sunday.
But any old excuse to cry "racist", right? (If anything your stereotypes were more offensive, btw.)

Good thing there weren't any women involved too or you guys would've had a meltdown! :mrgreen:
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Gino Under
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by Gino Under »

Criminals travel all the time with false documents, including passports.
My interest is in the wing tip damage this aircraft suffered earlier in the lifetime of the airframe.
Cycle fatigue could lead to structural failure. If so, the wing may have separated from the fuselage, The aircraft might have then banked left or right rather than 'turned back'.

Space debris has been sighted by aircraft in flight in the past travelling at supersonic speed. There's a one-to-the-whatever millionth chance that space debris took this aircraft out.

Terrorism? Maybe. But Malaysia is an Islamic nation and it seems unlikely to me that a fellow muslim would target them especially on such a route over water. What a tragic event for such a gentle nation?

Keep speculating though. It's nothing more than human curiosity.

May god rest their souls and give insight to those seeking answers.

Gino Under
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boeingboy
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by boeingboy »

If so, the wing may have separated from the fuselage,
:shock: Your kidding .....right?
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grimey
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by grimey »

complexintentions wrote: So, if the person presenting this passport at MH370 did indeed have an Asian face, then I do submit that it is a perfectly valid question as to why he was allowed to pass. It's sorta a basic principle of ID checks, the pretty picture is supposed to resemble the person holding it. Which is pretty much what the news article stated.
I'm absolutely certain that no one in all of history has ever doctored a passport or other form of ID.
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GGCC
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by GGCC »

From the Guardian

" Then searches for missing planes won't have to resemble the hunt for Amelia Earhart."

I was just thinking this could be the Amelia Earhart story for this century....
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bizjets101
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by bizjets101 »

Just a comment regarding the stolen passports.

Thailand is a well known area of the world to buy stolen passports - you supply your own photo, and whatever birthdate, birthplace, and name you want. They take one page out, and replace it with your own photo and whatever info you provided.

So whoever boarded the plane had a real passport, with false info but correct photo. It's very common.

Incidentally Interpol has a list of over 40 million stolen/lost passports, along with the knowledge that last year alone, Interpol states that over 1 billion international passengers last year boarded their flight without confirmation the passport was valid.

An Air India crash, 10 passengers on board had false passports (none were involved in the crash).
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complexintentions
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by complexintentions »

grimey,

Congrats on discovering the use of sarcasm, something I can appreciate.

I'm quite aware of document fraud, I do live in one of the hubs of it and in fact have looked into what it would take (just out of curiosity of course, not in case things went sideways here or anything!). And guess what, it's not quite like the movies and not quite as simple a substituting a page. Trying to alter a EU biometric passport like an Italian one would either be a. easily caught by any credible border control even without running it against the stolen database (the biometrics wouldn't match even if somehow went undetected that the picture wasn't original) or b. requiring a level of sophistication usually limited to the likes of hostile government and serious terrorist organizations. Not so much common people smugglers. And while passport fraud certainly continues, it's hardly the same environment as it was in the 70's during the Air India crash. Not for western passports at least, which the two stolen ones were. There are a slew of technologies employed in a modern passport that weren't around back then. Something to do with September 11, 2001 I think.

So either it was a. and the Home Minister's comments were quite appropriate (passport confirmation wasn't made) and not racist. Or b. and support the theory of terrorist attack.

Maybe people should pick their pet theory and stick with it. lol
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godsrcrazy
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by godsrcrazy »

Now back to the Topic of what happened and were is this plane. It is hard to believe that they have not found some kind of a debris field. Even if this thing came apart in flight there has to be debris. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 Even though the Air France aircraft system sent messages and they had a good ice were to start looking there was a debris field and its believed it came apart in mid air. 1998 Swiss air crashed into Peggy's Cove and there was miles of Debris. American airlines flight blew up in mid air outside New York in 2001 there was miles of Debris Field. The space shuttle Colombia and Challenger blew up and there was miles of Debris over Texas and in the Atlatic. They have a last known location so if this thing came apart in mid air or hit the water there should be a debris field.
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bizjets101
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by bizjets101 »

Took ten days to locate the Adam Air B737 off Indonesia in 2007.

From AvHerald;

Hong Kong's Air Traffic Control Center reported on Mar 10th 2014 around 17:30L (09:30Z) that an airliner enroute on airway L642 reported via HF radio that they saw a large field of debris at position N9.72 E107.42 about 80nm southeast of Ho Chi Minh City, about 50nm off the south-eastern coast of Vietnam in the South China Sea and about 281nm northeast of the last known radar position. Ships have been dispatched to the reported debris field.

photo; https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiX-lFvCQAAxEFu.jpg
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sstaurus
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by sstaurus »

Probably a dumb question, but.. Since it seems odd debris could be so far from where it was last seen on radar...

If the transponder stopped working, obviously it can't be seen on secondary radar, but is no one using any primary radar that would be able to show some evidence?
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Gino Under
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by Gino Under »

boeingboy

Kidding? No I'm not kidding.
Try doing some research before you stick YOUR neck out.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeroma ... r_02_10/3/
or this;
http://www.southampton.ac.uk/~jps7/Airc ... ftfail.pdf

Don't assume because it's a Boeing that no one's ever lost a Boeing due to structural fatigue.
How about that Aloha Airlines flight back in April 1988? Or post-Aloha, that other fatigue-related jet accident--the Sioux City DC-10? The good news is, in both these accidents, there were survivors. Their tale was told immediately as to what happened. MH370's tale has yet to be told.

This Malaysian aircraft's wing tip repair was carried out by whom?
Boeing?
Malaysian?
Another MRO?
Any variance in completion of the work or the work quality itself? Simply saying no or not possible doesn't cut it and one way or the other, can't be verified without investigation.
Any creeping cracks or fatigue signs after the wingtip repair could have lead to a catastrophic failure of wing components? Especially with the flexing and bending of the 777 wing over time.
Actually, I don't know the cause of this tragedy, AND until the wreckage is found NOBODY will know.

So no. I'm not kidding. Just speculating. :roll:

Gino :partyman:
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zulutime
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by zulutime »

Just noticed on CNN that the cost of the ticket(s) for those two stolen passport passengers cost 12450 Malaysian Ringgit. That equates to about $4,200.00 CDN. Now I'm not sure if that is per ticket or a total cost for both tickets (I think it is per ticket). A fair amount of money either way. I'm not suggesting this has anything to do with the missing aircraft but from CNN reports this so-called Iranian purchased similar tickets for "friends" all the time. Payment was ALWAYS made in cash and never by the Iranian himself. The travel agency can't even say with 100% certainty this person is Iranian. It's all speculation. Communication was always by phone.

Years ago my family looked into purchasing a travel agency. This was still during the time that airlines used to pay agents $25 per airline ticket booked through the agency. Of course many years ago airlines dropped that policy when they started seeing the virtues of online booking. Now travel agents typically charge the client an additional $25 to book a flight for them. The point I am trying to make is that travel agencies run with extremely thin margins. I have to assume someone at the helm of this particular agency likely suspected something odd going on about a so-called Iranian who purchases airline tickets for his "friends" time and time and time again and pays only in cash and never in person (does that sound odd to anyone else but me). But, for fear of losing that business said absolutely nothing to the authorities. Again, I have no idea if this has anythig to do with the missing aircraft or not but it is just another example of how easy it is for criminals to get things done in this world. Let's face it, doesn't take a big leap to assume there was something illegal going on with these two passengers and the so-called Iranian "sugar dady". Money laundering, drug smuggling, who knows what. I believe the authorities are trying to track down the person who paid for these tickets. Good luck with that! Do you think there's an outside chance that person too has one or more stolen passports on him? Just a thought of course........
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boeingboy
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by boeingboy »

Gino,
WOW! din't know you were so sensitive. :roll:

So the wingtip was replaced, this happens all the time. Please tell me how that causes a wing to seperate from the fuse?? I never said no Boeings have been lost due to structural failure - but it is an extreamly rare event.

This has nothing to do with any of the other accidents you referanced, nor does it have anything to do with aging aircraft. Wingtips get damaged and replaced all the time - in order for it to damage the wing near the fuse - you would have had to hit it with such force you would have written off the airplane. PS - Boeing did do the repair, and replaceing the wingtip is NOT like a bad repair on a Pressure bulkhead.

I'm not discounting inflight breakup from any cause - however it appears pretty unlikely, and to say it could be caused by the wintip being damaged and replaced makes it more unlikely. If a faulty wingtip had broke away - more than likely you would be able to still fly the plane to an airport, and get some kind of distress call out.

Besides - if it broke up in flight - like the other cases of in flight breakup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Airlines_Flight_611) - you would have a debris trail 40 miles long (China 611 debris trail was over 80 miles long). The fact that absolutely nothing has been found starts to classify this incident as weird.
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airway
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by airway »

Image

Speaking of identity fraud, this guy just displayed all his passport information to the world. :shock:
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2R
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by 2R »

Biometrics, Digital pictures, and encoded chips were supposed to put an end to the passport rental business.

It will be interesting to see who the person who bought the tickets for cash turns out to be, my guess is that he will be found dead due to an allergy to some form of metal or chemical .
Although a lot of business is done by cash in some parts of the world to avoid paying tax. The 9-11 hijackers used gold credit cards, so using cash does not mean they were hijackers or bombers maybe just stooges who thought they were carrying a few bags of dope up their bums.
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trey kule
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Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

Post by trey kule »

Tough day for the pac
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Last edited by trey kule on Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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