Are they lying to us Gilles?

[Rogerdodger2]

Funny, anyone who challenges or disagrees with Mr. Hudicourt makes his ignore list.

[aerosexual]

Funny, anyone who challenges or disagrees with Mr. Hudicourt makes his ignore list.

Rogerdodger2 what's interesting is that I read Gilles' original response outlining how he came about to fight the good fight. I thought it was a reasonable answer and appreciated him finally being straight forward on the issue. However, his straight forward response has now been removed. Makes you wonder what's going on.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

It was removed because the ... gentleman who prompted that response from me went and used it on several other threads to state that me or my union had a hidden agenda. My policy is not to respond to people who attack me rather than argue with counter facts and data. Those on my ignore list are people who have attacked me rather than my position and my arguments.

[leftoftrack]

Gilles I thank you for the effort you put into this and I hope you continue to fight the way you have. Every Canadian pilot who is unemployed or under employed or remains employed because of the lack of TFW's owes you a debt of gratitude for the effort you have put into this cause.

[razorblade]

Gilles I thank you for the effort you put into this and I hope you continue to fight the way you have. Every Canadian pilot who is unemployed or under employed or remains employed because of the lack of TFW's owes you a debt of gratitude for the effort you have put into this cause.

+1.
Thank you Gilles! You have done so much for us.

[Dh8Classic]

Now lets get Gilles to press his own employer to stop the artificial restriction placed on approximately two-thirds of qualified Canadian pilots.

Start holding your breath now in anticipation.

[trey kule]

Dh8

Global warming is real. Why would you think Hell could freeze over? Discrimination does not apply in Canada to English speakers. It is all about diversity.

I have never ever seen someone in aviation who jumps in front of a parade and then takes so much credit for leading it. All about self promotion I guess

In my opinion the sunwings/foreign worker issue is far far from over.

Lets wait and see how that plays out first.

[BverLuver]

Dh8

Global warming is real. Why would you think Hell could freeze over? Discrimination does not apply in Canada to English speakers. It is all about diversity.

I have never ever seen someone in aviation who jumps in front of a parade and then takes so much credit for leading it. All about self promotion I guess

In my opinion the sunwings/foreign worker issue is far far from over.

Lets wait and see how that plays out first.

trey Kule,

Enlighten us. Please! What has Gilles done behind the scenes? What has everyone else done behind the scenes? Please inform us of all that you know, because you are clearly more informed than the rest of us on the inner workings of this issue. Make us smarter, tell us why he is "jumping to the front of the parade" and not genuinely leading it. What do you know that we don't?

Thank you for once again blessing us with your hypocritical and arrogant views.

BL

[trey kule]

First of all, you are welcome.

And I may just be a bit more familiar with what was going on behind the scenes on the foreign worker issue then some.. Not sure exactly. There were a great many people whose names have never appeared on here who worked very hard on this issue to get it to progress to the place it is at today.
People who systematically and diligently approached the issue. And who made real progress.

What you see as arrogance is my frustration that these people who are to modest to promote themselves are being denied the credit they deserve. Somehow, making alot of noise is considered accomplishment by many, and if things happen they confuse co incidence with causeation.

But go ahead..maybe join the thread of thanks..only one person accomplished all this.

[BverLuver]

trey kule,

You said a lot for not saying anything. I do not "join the thread of thanks" because I understand that Gilles is not the only one involved. I also don't pretend to know more than I know about the issue. It never affected me. I was able to retire before this became a big issue, but your insistence that your words are frustration rather than arrogance is laughable. Gilles has made "real" progress, any thought to the contrary is simply ignorance. Maybe he has some arrogance too, who cares. He has found an avenue that reaches hundreds or thousands of pilots that may not have access to the ALPA or ACPA or whatever internal boards. So what you see as the others being too "modest" I see as a person using all the tools available to garner support.

Do you say the same about Ray Hall with the FP60 crew? After all, they have the ACPA forums, so anything posted on the open avcanada boards is purely to stroke the egos of the FP60 crews? Trey, your opinions are consistently devils advocate, I will give you that...but my gosh, do you ever spout off a lot of nothingness!

BL

[watermeth]

trey kule,

Do you say the same about Ray Hall with the FP60 crew?

BL

Ray Hall is a lawyer by trade. He has the background to be in a legitimate position to discuss matter of law, where the law is applicable. His playground is the court, which might be why we don't hear him barking on this forum, neither trying to impose his own interpretation of law, or his opinion on the way this said law should be exercised.

[BverLuver]

trey kule,

Do you say the same about Ray Hall with the FP60 crew?

BL

Ray Hall is a lawyer by trade. He has the background to be in a legitimate position to discuss matter of law, where the law is applicable. His playground is the court, which might be why we don't hear him barking on this forum, neither trying to impose his own interpretation of law, or his opinion on the way this said law should be exercised.

Watermeth,

I couldn't possibly disagree more! First, that's ALL he has done on these forums! He shares a ruling, fair. He shows his interpretation of the ruling, fair. He tells us why the ruling is faulty if it goes against his beliefs, fair. He shares the next steps of appeals as he interprets the ruling, fair! We don't hear him "barking" anymore, but we sure did when his issue was the hot button of the month.

One could very easily argue that Gilles has spent many years and many tears educating himself on this issue and probably has as much, or more, day to day working knowledge of this issue than any other single person working on it at the present time. This, to me, makes him an expert on the subject, Prove me wrong! Sharing his viewpoints and interpretations, is fair for the above mentioned reasons. I have no problem with it. Agree or don't it doesn't matter, but have some fact and proof to back up your position, just as he does every time. So many have tried to take away his credibility but look foolish doing so as they provide no proof and Gilles has always had the counter to their points, which are made over and over ad nauseum.

BL

[trey kule]

Mr. Hudicourt has more working knowledge than any other single person on this issue?

Now there is a well founded and indisputable fact.

Which, I suppose, then allows him to post things like this...lots of substantiation to this claim. A bit inflammatory, don't you think.

Often these ads are fake, in the sense that these companies have no intention of hiring you.

I too have no dog in this fight Beav. But from what I can tell Sun Wings had a longer term business plan. Which meant employment for many Canadians, not just the Gods of the sky , pilots. It was sensible, and from what I can tell, the various powers to be , agreed. Of course their competitors would not be happy.

So Sunwings became the anti Christ. There were postings on here claiming what they were doing was illegal. Postings damning them all to hell..and of course the indisputable claims that they were posting fake ads.

Then the abuses of the TFW was linked to them. There were legitimate problems with the program, but I think you will find, in retrospect, that , for the most part, Sun Wings being linked to those abuses was a moment of opportunity, and nothing much is going to change. Sun Wings seems to have a pretty good business model. And that model, if it succeeds means more Canadian pilots will have permanent full time jobs with them.. Are not more being hired every year? That was simply part of their plan, not a result of any individual's efforts.

It is just to bad that a competitor can stand up on the soap box and preach their gospel as fact, and people will unthinkingly believe them...because...well because they are the most knowledgable person on this issue. Throw enough mud against the wall and some is bound to stick...is that not how the saying goes?

I do predict, as I did years ago when Mr. H was first rallying the troops to support his company's goals , that Sunwings will eat AT for lunch... And that in the long run, SunWing will hire more and more Canadian pilots and provide more and more jobs for Canadians. That is the goal of their TFW program, and those wiser than us seem to agree.

But then, as I said previously, I do not have a dog in this fight, so maybe I am just not emotional enough about it....which is good actually because pretty soon the airlines will be placing a surcharge on emotional baggage.

Btw...my opinion, just like everyone else's, is totally unbiased

[GRK]

Sunwing…you realize that they are a Canadian Charter airline?

[TG]

trey kule, you must be blind. Or I don't know. Stubborn!?

What pretty much everybody but a few (load voices here) admit is the thing you call "moment of opportunity" has been abused left and right by companies in Canada and not only in aviation!
Good news, it is finally being corrected.

Part of SW's business was built around it, this helped them grow and gave them a true unfair advantage. Admit it!

Now, guess what, Sunwind will eventually live without having to rely on TFWs "too much"
Rogerdoger2 call that "SW's management foresight" Ok, whatever.
The idea that it could not survive without TFWs was probably what scared Gilles' naysayers. It will (survive) so what exactly you lot are complaining about unless you are part of this program.

Now about employment:
Could it be that SW hire more Canadians down the road, yes sure and everybody will be happy about it.
Could it be that some of this hiring spree comes from this particular moment of opportunity closure?
Well, yes duh! If you cannot admit that....Read the first line of this post. You and watermeth's buddies.



Spelling, grammar and syntaxe Gestapo can meet my profile.

[trey kule]

TG. I will try to reply but most of your post was blurry and my companion dog does not read.

I am stubborn....says Mr. pot to Mr. kettle.


The TFW program had huge abuses. But the vast majority had nothing to do with foreign pilots,skilled technical people or aviation. SunWing was involved in the program, and by association they were damned.

Could SunWings have developed their business plan without the TFW program? Good question, and one I am very interested in for a number of reasons.

But it is rather a moot point. They were able to prepare a business plan and use the TFW to implement it. At the very least it saved them a huge amount of CAPEX on training.
So why did their competitors not use the same plan. Well, as near as I can see, they just did not see the opportunity, and when it did become apparent they were caught with their pants down....so they did what one would expect. They mounted legal challenges....which were not successful because SunWing had done nothing wrong. They took the political route, which again was not successful....and they took the populist PR route. Which despite all the ballyhooing, really did not accomplish much.

The legitimate TFW abuses were resolved in the aviation field by people sitting down with the officials, and working through their concerns. Not be coming on a website with claims that Sunwings was posting fake ads or doing anything illegal....or even wrongfully manipulating the system.

For now it seems most have been mollified by what they read in the news. Lets see how it plays out in the next couple of years.

And now, as much as I enjoy debating with you, I have to go and earn a living.....as a dreaded Canadian foreign pilot taking jobs away from the locals..

[Rogerdodger2]

Sunwing…you realize that they are a Canadian Charter airline?

Wrong,
SW is a vacation travel company that owns an Airline. Similar to Transat, it will be around a long time because they provide their own lift. They are not reliant on others for business like Skyservice, for example.