PPL info needed! - First timer...

[Shiny Side Up]

What kind of heading differential was there between the two of you ? With the fisheye effect it looked something like around 60 degrees, give or take. Am I even close ? I suppose the scenarios that would have me sweating the most would be the ones closer to 180 degrees, like someone heading 010 and the other at 170. In that case, they would close in pretty quickly I assume.

The intercept angle is only about 20 to 30 degrees. You're right that someone on a head on collision course would close in on a smaller interval of time, but the main point is where to look for other planes that concern you the most. Contrary to what most pilots do - the look all over thing - things that concern you the most appear within a small sector of sky.

The other scenario is flying <3000, especially underneath a class C or whatever. That's where I would expect you see a lot of traffic going every which way and sandwiched between 500 feet of airspace. Obviously good to avoid these areas altogether, if possible.

Yes, all the crazys will be doing this, the NORDO traffic, ultralights etc. Just fly through the airspace. ATC is less scary than encounters with the rest. That said though, such traffic won't be going "every which way", They'll be going on predictable paths, for the most part.

Think about it logically, why would someone be there? Its unlikely that they'll be exiting or entering the airspace, they're likely to be following a path skirting the airspace. For the most part, traffic isn't as random as one would think.

[Rookie50]

What kind of heading differential was there between the two of you ? With the fisheye effect it looked something like around 60 degrees, give or take. Am I even close ? I suppose the scenarios that would have me sweating the most would be the ones closer to 180 degrees, like someone heading 010 and the other at 170. In that case, they would close in pretty quickly I assume.

The intercept angle is only about 20 to 30 degrees. You're right that someone on a head on collision course would close in on a smaller interval of time, but the main point is where to look for other planes that concern you the most. Contrary to what most pilots do - the look all over thing - things that concern you the most appear within a small sector of sky.

The other scenario is flying <3000, especially underneath a class C or whatever. That's where I would expect you see a lot of traffic going every which way and sandwiched between 500 feet of airspace. Obviously good to avoid these areas altogether, if possible.

Yes, all the crazys will be doing this, the NORDO traffic, ultralights etc. Just fly through the airspace. ATC is less scary than encounters with the rest. That said though, such traffic won't be going "every which way", They'll be going on predictable paths, for the most part.

Think about it logically, why would someone be there? Its unlikely that they'll be exiting or entering the airspace, they're likely to be following a path skirting the airspace. For the most part, traffic isn't as random as one would think.

Absolutely. Call up Terminal. They'll give you a code, and off you go. I do it all the time, around the Toronto TCA, (for traffic advisory purposes, its lower stress for everyone including them. They don't mind at all, and they are very helpful. Just don't tell your life story. Longer flights I fly high if the winds are friendly, traffic up there (6000 and above) is almost non- existent. Still watchful of course.

[Colonel Sanders]

Toronto TCA

Maybe things have changed, but when someone
calls in sick, the chair left empty is the VFR guy.

"VFR calling, remain clear". Fond memories of
flying in Toronto.

Same treatment when he gets too many VFR's
on a sunny weekend.

At least in my years of flying around Toronto,
you would be foolish to expect help from ATC,
and you always had to have a "NORDO" route
planned as a backup.

[CpnCrunch]

Maybe things have changed, but when someone
calls in sick, the chair left empty is the VFR guy.

"VFR calling, remain clear". Fond memories of
flying in Toronto.

Same treatment when he gets too many VFR's
on a sunny weekend.

At least in my years of flying around Toronto,
you would be foolish to expect help from ATC,
and you always had to have a "NORDO" route
planned as a backup.

Same around Vancouver. The best place for farting about in a plane without bumping into anyone else is out in the prairies away from airports. Most times I never saw another plane, even at the airport.

I'm more concerned about planes converging from the side, or descending on top of me. At least head on you should have time to take evasive action unless you've fallen asleep.

However as Shiny points out, there are risks to everything in life. Definitely you should keep a good lookout, but there's no need to be too stressed out about it otherwise it defeats the purpose of flying (i.e. having fun). I just try to avoid practice areas and other places that have high concentrations of planes giving dubious position calls. I don't particularly like fly-ins for the same reason.

I do think that a PCAS would probably be a useful piece of kit in places like Vancouver or Toronto.

[Colonel Sanders]

I don't particularly like fly-ins

Me too. Extremely high concentration of pilots
with marginal skills. Very high risk.

Like flying a large, unbriefed formation flight.
What could possibly go wrong?

[Shiny Side Up]

Me too. Extremely high concentration of pilots
with marginal skills. Very high risk.

Bah, that's a lot of airports on any given Saturday.

[Colonel Sanders]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G_zSos8w_I

[Rookie50]

Toronto TCA

Maybe things have changed, but when someone
calls in sick, the chair left empty is the VFR guy.

"VFR calling, remain clear". Fond memories of
flying in Toronto.

Same treatment when he gets too many VFR's
on a sunny weekend.

At least in my years of flying around Toronto,
you would be foolish to expect help from ATC,
and you always had to have a "NORDO" route
planned as a backup.

This has not been my general experience, and my home airport lies underneath the shelf of the Toronto TCA. All in all they do their best, and I think it's wise to try to use all the tools available, while remaining viligent as in any busy airspace. Actually, they try to help with traffic advisories outside the boundaries of the TCA, around the margins, and I think do a fair job considering...

[Colonel Sanders]

Before your time, I suppose, but this was
such a frequent problem that it was regularly
discussed on the pages of the COPA newspaper.
If memory serves, none other than the Honorable
James Snow got pretty snotty about it.

He was a pilot for most of his life, but when he turned 70, he sold his Cessna 210 and gave up flying

Regardless, I have had much better experiences
with ATC at large airports in the USA, than I have
had at YYZ. Must be something in the water.

[Rookie50]

Flying in the USA has been a pleasure, agree there. Yyz can occasionally be a bit on the short side, but most of them are good. I did a tour of Toronto Acc and met some of the guys, very interesting.

[Colonel Sanders]

I really wish some Canadian ATC could
do an exchange tour and see how it's
done at a busy airport in the USA.

They've never heard of this place called
"Oshkosh" or "O'Hare" or "Atlanta" or
any large airport in the northeast.

[Rookie50]

ATC in Florida impressed me, I think JAX center. Obviously extremely busy airspace, south of Jacksonville. Very busy, very quick and accurate, and very friendly to boot. (just try to imagine how many student pilots in Florida)

Same with DC area controllers. It's tricky airspace, very busy, and they were great with an unfamiliar pilot (me) during challenging weather conditions. Very patient and professional.