GA needs new blood!

[trey kule]

Flying is more than big planes at big airports.

Are you sure, SSU? Because from what I have seen at the flight colleges lately, that is exactly what it is about.

I think others have outlined the challanges, and even sone solutions proposed.

PilotDar blames the internet for people not being at the airport hangar flying. I blame those pesky drinking and driving laws. I cant walk home from the airport!

Perhaps we need to look at starting flying clubs. Not FTUs . But a few couches in the back of a hangar. An old fridge for root beer. Some videos and magazines. Offer it to the local EAA chapter, COPA, Flying farmers, ....make sure the local cadet squadron knows they are welcome to come and witness the fine art of old guys BSing....get them to the airport. Let them sit in a plane. Get people out.
My rambling.

As an aside, I had the opportunity a while back to look at one of the planes that qualifies to be flown by a rec pilot. It was a neat little plane..maybe it it time for someone to open a flight just to serve that market. The people who just want to fly. I cannot understand why flight schools are not persuing this. These are stay and repeat customers. Not just get the licenses and go look for a job.

As to cost. Tough for a high school kid. No way around that typically. For others , not so much, but a trip to the airport should be more than jump in the plane, fly, go home. Light aircraft have something no big aircraft will ever offer. You vcan touch them. Walkaround them. Get close up and personal.
Good luck to all tose trying to promote general aviation.

[Tom H]

Aviation is fraught with divisions...you get

The ultralight folks
Then the grass roots level homebuilt guys
Then the Cool homebuilt guys
The Certified Drivers (Cessnas, Pipers, etc)
The high dollar gang (high buck aircraft of all ages)
The warbird folks
The Aerobatic folks

+1

My point exactly, too bad some (especially here on Avcanada) think flying is and should be the exclusive domain of the wealthy certified world.

Maybe if GA was affordable for the average person (read young people) you'd see more young people at fly-ins.

You hardly need to be wealthy to fly certified airplanes. I'm sort of proof of that. But you don't have to be certified either, I fly lots of homebuilts too, which is a good way to cut costs. Hell, I've flown ultralights as well, but there's something with that group - that your posts about the subject have only proven - that really needs to be cleaned up. Its unfortunate that the focus of ultralight flying is cutting corners wherever possible.

Tom H after all forgot about one of the other sectors, the glider guys, which while some of the goal there is reducing costs of flying, have a much better attitude towards conducting safe operations. The ultralight crowd could take a cue from this.

Clearly though from this thread there is a strong perception that to participate, you need to have your own, and that's something we collectively, need to get out there.

Yep missed the Glider guys, thanks for catching it.

Particularly when you look at the thousands of kids that get their first flight each year in a Glider through the air cadet program.

Sad part is how many that get their license through that program but never glide again.

Wonder if it has to do with the loss of the comradre' when they move for the cadet program? Same with those that get their PPL through the program.

As to ultralights, Shiny that depends where you are. I know here when I hangared at St Albert Airport there was a strong ultralight group, concentrated on safety and had a gas.

That is where I got checked out on the Bush Master and they were just as SMS focused as any flying school I've been at and their construction and maintenance (which includes the 15-20 aircraft that were not part of the school) was very high with no corners cut.

Course when that airport closed the group scattered.

When it comes to recreational flying it often seems the "culture" has disappeared though. the social side.

That's sad.

Tom H

[Shiny Side Up]

Flying is more than big planes at big airports.

Are you sure, SSU? Because from what I have seen at the flight colleges lately, that is exactly what it is about.

And that's my point that we have to make sure people know its more than that. I would specifically say that its something we should target international students to make sure they get exposed to it. But the poll on what type of flying people do is revealing. The majority of pilots fly strictly career or work related, don't do it recreationally at all. Its unfortunate.

As to cost. Tough for a high school kid. No way around that typically.

Many high school kids wouldn't be able to afford most of the things they do if it weren't for their parents. Flying is merely something that competes for their time. Hockey, Horses, Dirtbikes (talk about something costs of participating in that has sky rocketed, you used to be able to go rip around pretty cheap, now a days dirt bikes are as expensive as street bikes and sometimes more.), Dance, Figure Skating, even Soccer has become a lot more than you think to participate. Most kids are doing several of these things, but some parents have figured out that flying in some ways is cheaper - at least when it comes to time commitment.

For others , not so much, but a trip to the airport should be more than jump in the plane, fly, go home. .

If we want it to grow, sometimes we'll have to do more than this. Something the new blood needs to be shown.

As to ultralights, Shiny that depends where you are. I know here when I hangared at St Albert Airport there was a strong ultralight group, concentrated on safety and had a gas.

Yeah, I remember that, I flew in there a few times. In my experience, those kinds of groups were really in the minority, which is unfortunate, that's what it could be.

[Pop n Fresh]

Perhaps we need to look at starting flying clubs. Not FTUs . But a few couches in the back of a hangar. An old fridge for root beer. Some videos and magazines. Offer it to the local EAA chapter, COPA, Flying farmers, ....make sure the local cadet squadron knows they are welcome to come and witness the fine art of old guys BSing....get them to the airport. Let them sit in a plane. Get people out.
My rambling.

Add Mountain Dew & Dr Pepper. Then again we could take over the upstairs of the Calgary Flying club. It's pretty nice and there is a pool table.

[Liquid Charlie]

"Honey - I'm going out to spend the day at the flying club"-- WHAT! -- you just got back from a 5 day pairing -- your turn to entertain the kids" -- -- -- also not many airline pilots want to promote flying to their kids -- so ya -- the empty nesters -- divorced group has it -- also it's been my experience that "social memberships" at various clubs are not cost effective for someone who does not want to fly and the clubs could care less if they have a school attached to them --

I can remember the days at the original Brampton Flying club where it was a one room shack and people would sit around visit - exchange stories and actually do some flying -- fast forward 45 years and now the BFC has only the restaurant for anyone to visit -- it's a business and "old farts" and recreational pilots are not top of their list -- the best place to enjoy one's self and socialize was at the local farmer's strip but I suspect that is even fading into the past -- my favourite destination when I was learning to fly is now a golf course - thankfully they kept Bruce's nick name -- all I can see now are the ponds that surrounded the strip and the family house -- flying is changing but is it for the best - I miss those days of strapping on my nordo J-3 --

[Taiser]

I can remember the days at the original Brampton Flying club where it was a one room shack and people would sit around visit - exchange stories and actually do some flying -- fast forward 45 years and now the BFC has only the restaurant for anyone to visit

The flying club in Thunder Bay was like that... now it doesn't even have a club... At least we still have the Kakabeka club still going and it's doing OK. Some new guys are joining and we even had a BBQ and a fly in planned this summer, had the BBQ which was great but the fly-in got cancelled due to weather! But we're heading in the right direction with it!

[Shiny Side Up]

"Honey - I'm going out to spend the day at the flying club"-- WHAT! -- you just got back from a 5 day pairing -- your turn to entertain the kids" -- --

Big missed opportunity: Take the kids down to the flying club! Wife's happy, she gets some time away from the kids, kids get some aviation exposure, Dad gets to go to the airport. That's what you call win-win-win.

I can remember the days at the original Brampton Flying club where it was a one room shack and people would sit around visit - exchange stories and actually do some flying --

There's several problems with those clubs, and hence their decline. First is that there's way more bullshitting than flying. If you want a flying club to stay active, there's got to be flying othewise its just like any other BS place, you might as well just be at the local coffee shop or bar. No actual flying activity is the chief reason most people get turned off of these clubs. While social in focus, it still needs to have something going on. Funny thing I've seen at these clubs is frequently, though people have a couple of hours to sit around, when some flying comes up, suddenly everyone has somewhere to go or something they need to be doing.

Second, there's usually only a very few who actually do the work for these clubs, you know, the buying of the coffee, washing of the cups. This becomes tiresome for those who do it and they rapidly get disillusioned, and soon as the coffee ain't being made most of the hanger-outers disappear. Nevermind the other things that make any club alive. You got to have new pictures on the wall, keep the place cleaned up. Every flying club could use a clean up party onec a year, that's mandatory to attend, and that's for every flying club I've seen from BC to Quebec. BYOB - Bring your own broom.

Lastly, every flying club needs new stories. I'm sorry but if you hang out at any club for more than a few meetings, you'll have exausted the story list and its going to get repeated to you. And while old stories are good - especially if there's a specific presentation of them - there needs to be new stories. Similar to the Colonel's photo archive. I like the pics, but he really needs new ones to post.

[Liquid Charlie]

Big missed opportunity: Take the kids down to the flying club! Wife's happy, she gets some time away from the kids, kids get some aviation exposure, Dad gets to go to the airport. That's what you call win-win-win.

Missed the point -- not many "family" guys in this industry wants to expose their kids to aviation -- and really to be honest I can't see any of the clubs catering to children --

There's several problems with those clubs, and hence their decline

-- well time marches on and things change and where I was doing it there was a lot of flying going on both club aircraft - private and visitors -- most of the action was revolving around private aircraft -- but as you pointed out things change and clubs are forced to either move or shut down -- BFC lost a lot of it's "character" when forced to relocate.

But as I have stated before time moves on and now it's the minority who strap on a cub and chug around dropping in on friends, landing in farmer's fields -- it's become far too regulated for that anymore and pilots have flight bags that take up a whole seat and weigh about the same as a male passenger -- damn --

[iflyforpie]

Well... that's exactly what I plan on using my Cub for when it is finally flying... and I'm hoping to offer it for rent to like-minded people who want to fly out of a nice uncontrolled field in the heart of BC's Eastern Ranges. I'm gone all summer, so those who want to do a Flight of Passage over a month or so will have the ability to do so....

[Shiny Side Up]

Missed the point -- not many "family" guys in this industry wants to expose their kids to aviation -- and really to be honest I can't see any of the clubs catering to children --

First, clubs should be more kid friendly, part of the point of this thread, but also there is something to be said for parents these days being over-protective of their children. I don't think that parents realise that children are tougher than they think. I can remember all sorts of ill-advised things I was exposed to as a kid and wa happier for it. Dad took us to ball games, we went on fishing trips, and went for coffee at a lot of "shops" where all sorts of things were being built or worked on. Just because a place ain't designed around children, doesn't mean you can't take them there, but then that also means you teach your kids early on that the world is a dangerous place, you shut up and listen when the big people are busy, and don't make a nuisance of yourself, and in the end you might get to do someting really neat or cool.

But I digress.

Second though the idea that guys "in industry" wouldn't want to "expose" their children to aviation, also speaks that those guys "in industry" haven't been exposed to the larger picture of what a blessed thing aviation is. Yeah, I wouldn't want to bring my kids to a union meeting or a labour dispute. The other thread that says how many fly "only commercially" or career oriented, is I feel really unforunate. It depresses me to think of how many chase only the dream of big iron and are sorely disappointed when they get there. Even kids looking at an aviation career could use the more exposure to what's out there.

But as I have stated before time moves on and now it's the minority who strap on a cub and chug around dropping in on friends, landing in farmer's fields -- it's become far too regulated for that anymore and pilots have flight bags that take up a whole seat and weigh about the same as a male passenger -- damn --

You might be surprised at how many are out there, but as I've said before, flying is more than just big airports, sometime you have to look for it.

[Fling Wing]

When I was a interested in learning to fly, the only chance to get up close to airplanes was at one of the many fly-ins south of the border, at least 5 were held every spring within a one our drive of where I grew up, there would be people of all ages, visitors and owners alike, and people going for their first rides. The only aviation event on this side of the border was a bi-annual snowbirds show at the local major airport where ended up getting my ppl a few years later. Snow birds are cool to watch I guess, but it's not an event aimed at getting people interested in jumping in a 172 and going for a burn around the patch. GA just seems to be more alive and in reach cost-wise down in the states from what I've seen so far. Something needs to change, it's definitely turning into something that only those that are "well-off" do up here it seems.

[Genetk44]

Found today.

Total course estimate for the Recreational Pilot Permit: $5296.25

[Shiny Side Up]

Arguably, it would be cheaper to have your kid involved in aviation that it would be to play hockey.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... le4246871/