Definition of cross-country

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Cat Driver
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by Cat Driver »

If you fly across an ocean all over water is that called a cross country?
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B-rad
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by B-rad »

Which country would you be crossing flying over an ocean? so no, it's considered cross non-country and counts as time against cross country. Sorry but if you have too much of this time then you must complete more cross country for your licence to be valid.
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davecessna
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by davecessna »

Cat Driver wrote:If you fly across an ocean all over water is that called a cross country?
Think bigger. If I climbed my 152 to orbit vertically from an airport and managed to stay over said fixed point, complete a full 24h revolution and land at the airport, it wouldn't count as cross country as I haven't traveled more than 25nm RELATIVE to my departure airport. Relative to a fixed observer, however, I have travelled over 40,000km.
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New_PIC
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by New_PIC »

Could I get a ride in that orbital 152 sometime, please?
The observer is fixed relative to what?
Does the observer have to be a close relative?
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jump154
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by jump154 »

davecessna wrote:
Cat Driver wrote:If you fly across an ocean all over water is that called a cross country?
Think bigger. If I climbed my 152 to orbit vertically from an airport and managed to stay over said fixed point, complete a full 24h revolution and land at the airport, it wouldn't count as cross country as I haven't traveled more than 25nm RELATIVE to my departure airport. Relative to a fixed observer, however, I have travelled over 40,000km.
Hell, go sleep the night in a 152 in the hangar. Wake up 8 hours later, and you have just completed a journey of 532,800 statute miles, relative to a fixed observer in space. Log 10 hours of interstellar travel :) 0 hobbs time, so it's free.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by Cat Driver »

Which country would you be crossing flying over an ocean?
None if you are over open ocean.

I assume you are a flight instructor B-rad because you seem to have all the answers.

So tell us what advantage flying long distances over an ocean has for fuel range compared to flying long distances over land?

And maybe you could tell us how often you have used that method of extending fuel range.
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B-rad
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by B-rad »

You assume wrong Cat. My infinite wisdom comes from imaginative answers for people who ask questions with second intentions, like answering their own question. For example, when someone asks you what you did this weekend but you know they really don't care and they just want to tell you all about their weekend instead.
The same way I know you don't want me to actually answer your questions and you are just itching to answer it yourself. So much so that you try and find a way to segue cross country flying into ocean flying and then hope you can answer your own question. I really have fun when I see someone finally turn your own question back on you and you light up like a christmas tree as if they really care enough to ask your opinion on the very thing you wanted to "enlighten" everyone on.
Cat Driver wrote:
Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Cat Driver wrote: I do wonder how crop dusters judge height though.
Since you used to be one why don't you tell us ?
Actually I wrote an in detail lesson on that very subject over on Pprune some years ago.
The article was quite popular and well received by the Ppruners, in fact I'm betting that you could go there and ask someone to find it and put it back up for you to read.

It was posted in the Private Flying forum.
Yeh .... I bet someone there can find it.

Oh by the way that method of judging height worked excellent for me in the fire bombing business for fifteen years and eight years in airshow flying so that should give some value to the method.
So were you really wondering how crop dusters judge height? I doubt it because you seamed to already know the answer to a question no one else was asking. Just like I wonder if you really are asking if ocean flying would be called a cross country or waiting till you get to bring up fuel range over the ocean and answer it yourself.

You know, if there is something you want to discuss or share, you don't have to be shy to just put it out there. Maybe the only way you know how to do that tho is like BPF says
Big Pistons Forever wrote:the true motive of your question was to elicit a response which would then allow you to ridicule the poster, a tactic which you have used repeatedly in the past.
now, since I know you're just dying to answer, let me ask you, how much wood would a woodchuck . if a woodchuck could . wood?
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davecessna
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by davecessna »

More importantly, where do I log interstellar time, I don't see a line in my logbook?

Another potential advantage, if I'm travelling close to the speed of light, time in my frame of reference passes slower than a fixed observer. So once my mighty 152 reaches cruising altitude, I'll already have more flight time than every pilot in history combined. Hopefully then I should start getting callbacks.
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Rookie50
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by Rookie50 »

Another question...if I climb a 152 into a 70 knot headwind at 9000 ft, slow down to slow flight, and travel backwards, do I need to deduct from prior x country totals?
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Pop n Fresh
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by Pop n Fresh »

AirFrame wrote:
davecessna wrote:Ugh, I would love to putz around in a Cessna out there. Jeelouse.
Cessna? No...

Yosemite Sam would have wrote:The critter went plum upside downy.
Any light single should be fun around there.
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pdw
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by pdw »

Cat Driver wrote:If you fly across an ocean all over water is that called a cross country?
For this discussion (flight training cross country time) which starts out with the question about defining XC for the wheel PPL time for a night endorsement, ... it's usually within 'gliding distance of shore' :wink:
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photofly
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by photofly »

For this discussion (flight training cross country time) which starts out with the question about defining XC for the wheel PPL time for a night endorsement, ... it's usually within 'gliding distance of shore' :wink:
Assuming the x-c is done in an aircraft operated by an FTU, it must be. (406.54)
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roach374
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by roach374 »

According to TCan AC 100-001:

cross-country flight
A flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a pre-planned route using standard navigation procedures.


No definition for "standard navigation procedures", though :wink:
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

roach374 wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:56 am According to TCan AC 100-001:

cross-country flight
A flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a pre-planned route using standard navigation procedures.


No definition for "standard navigation procedures", though :wink:
AC's start with the followign disclaimer
This Advisory Circular (AC) is provided for information and guidance purposes. It describes an example of an acceptable means, but not the only means, of demonstrating compliance with regulations and standards. This AC on its own does not change, create, amend or permit deviations from regulatory requirements, nor does it establish minimum standards.
The AC is meaningless with respect to the regualtory requirement with respect to whether any particualar flight meets the definition of cross country flight as required for the issue of a licence or rating.
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New_PIC
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by New_PIC »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:34 pm ...<snip>...
BTW pre CAR's the personnel licensing hand book had a definition of cross country time. For licensing purposes a cross country flight had to be to a point 25 nm away or include a full stop landing at an airport other than the origin.

The personnel licensing handbook is obsolete and had no legal standing but bits of it never seem to go away...
I was recently asking about x-country time at a local flight school and this was the definition given. I've flown into several casual fly-ins at grass strips along the side of a local farmers field, mostly within 25nm, so I was happy to still count them. I suppose the navigation in that is finding the right field because they can be pretty hard to spot from the air sometimes. It's probably harder than keeping the little airplane picture on a pink line. :lol:
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

Found this…. This may be of help.

https://www.aviationsolutions.net/blog/812
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New_PIC
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Re: Definition of cross-country

Post by New_PIC »

The CARs amendment proposed in the referenced Canada Gazette reads:
Amend section 400.01 of the CARs to include a definition that quantifies “cross-country flight time” as the flight time recorded when a flight follows standard navigation procedures along a pre-planned route to a destination that is at least 25 nautical miles from the point of departure.

So, not yet in the CARs but something is coming ...
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