mbav8r wrote: ↑Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Guess I was right.
What a stand up guy this tbaylx is, they protected his pay but he jumped ship anyway, I do wonder how he’ll be viewed by Flair pilots.
There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.
I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.
All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, it has everything to do with me and any other pilot who respects seniority and ourselves!
Bottom feeders get what they pay for, you’re a testament to that, you can tell yourself you wanted to be part of blah blah blah but reality, you wanted to jump the que and didn’t care who you screwed to do it. You were very much aware of the work dispute and did it anyway, now that you had to swallow your ego you’ve moved on to yet another union busting company, thanks for all you do for the industry.
I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
The seniority system in aviation is a broken relic of the past, handcuffing pilots to their companies and preventing lateral movement commensurate with experience. By preventing pilots from leaving one company for another it is more responsible for lower wages in the industry than anything else. The only lack of respect around here is your like and I hope you never get forced to leave your soapbox there at Jazz and find yourself on the other side of the seniority ladder.
The other union busting company has a union, they've just realized that being able to hire a mix of experienced pilots and entry level pilots makes it a better company overall. Nothing like a little bit of competition, lets see how it all plays out.
So funny. Everyone is mad at the Swoop peeps for taking these low paying jobs and "screwing" over the industry. But what did westjet pilots get in the end? The right to go and fly at swoop for the current swoop rates.... lol. What a joke. Let me get this straight.. westjet pilots were mad ots hires accepted flying for crap pay... then pilots at westjet win the right to go and fly there for the same crap pay.... help me understand how that is winning? Plus now that its been decided by a judge westjet will just move more flying to swoop. Clap clap clap. I dont blame the swoop guy for going there. And i definitely dont blame them for leaving..... now excuse me, my thermos is empty and i need more koolaid.
Ironic since Westjet started as a low paying job "screwing" the industry. Hell, most would argue they are still low paying with no real pension to boot.
mbav8r wrote: ↑Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
...I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
But NO no no... they were HELPING the future generations by lowering the pay. Don't you SEE!??
mbav8r wrote: ↑Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
...I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
Nope, I voted yes to the contract and never held a gun to anyone’s head to accept the new wages, the hope was they wouldn’t be able to attract pilots at those abysmal wages and they would have to raise them.
You see the problem cloak, started with Encore, then Sky Regional lowering the bar, then GGN came along and ate our lunch leaving us no choice but the pilots all 1000+ since 2015 all had a choice.
You could even go further back when WJ started at 55.00 for Captains, were you one, is that why you defend tbaylx?
Oh I see you are one of those "You had a choice" Captains. Well, glad I don't have to fly with you.
cloak wrote: ↑Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:35 pm
If you are at Jazz, how do you reconcile that statement with your B scale? A case of do as I say and not as I do perhaps?!
Nope, I voted yes to the contract and never held a gun to anyone’s head to accept the new wages, the hope was they wouldn’t be able to attract pilots at those abysmal wages and they would have to raise them.
You see the problem cloak, started with Encore, then Sky Regional lowering the bar, then GGN came along and ate our lunch leaving us no choice but the pilots all 1000+ since 2015 all had a choice.
You could even go further back when WJ started at 55.00 for Captains, were you one, is that why you defend tbaylx?
Oh I see you are one of those "You had a choice" Captains. Well, glad I don't have to fly with you.
Did you or did you not have a choice?
Seriously, blaming me for your choice is beyond ridiculous, if the pay on offer was the same when I started, I would’ve stayed put in a 704 captain spot, life’s about choices and I’ll second that I’m glad I don’t fly with you either. The chip on your shoulder and reek of entitlement would be obvious.
There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.
I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.
All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, it has everything to do with me and any other pilot who respects seniority and ourselves!
Bottom feeders get what they pay for, you’re a testament to that, you can tell yourself you wanted to be part of blah blah blah but reality, you wanted to jump the que and didn’t care who you screwed to do it. You were very much aware of the work dispute and did it anyway, now that you had to swallow your ego you’ve moved on to yet another union busting company, thanks for all you do for the industry.
I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
The seniority system in aviation is a broken relic of the past, handcuffing pilots to their companies and preventing lateral movement commensurate with experience. By preventing pilots from leaving one company for another it is more responsible for lower wages in the industry than anything else. The only lack of respect around here is your like and I hope you never get forced to leave your soapbox there at Jazz and find yourself on the other side of the seniority ladder.
The other union busting company has a union, they've just realized that being able to hire a mix of experienced pilots and entry level pilots makes it a better company overall. Nothing like a little bit of competition, lets see how it all plays out.
You could see in another thread I agree the system is broken and Jazz ALPA has taken a step towards fixing it, WJ pilots also took a step towards fixing it by demanding Encore pilots be on their list by DOH, you undermined that progress by your greed and make it worse with your attitude.
Flair was started to bust the union at KFC, if you’ve been around since the 90s, you would know that.
There you go posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you yet again. I know you have a hard time seeing that there is more to a job than money, given your fascination with what other peoples salary is, however for the less mercenary there is more to a job than what you get paid.
I, and most of the other OTS pilots, joined Swoop to be involved in building a brand new ULCC airline and that is not what Swoop has evolved into. I am also not interested in an entry level position, after 25+ years in the industry I've already paid my dues. Happy to go somewhere where that experience is valued and utilized.
All the best to those that stay and those that joined, it was a pleasure to fly with you. Hope you get the scheduling sorted out there.
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, it has everything to do with me and any other pilot who respects seniority and ourselves!
Bottom feeders get what they pay for, you’re a testament to that, you can tell yourself you wanted to be part of blah blah blah but reality, you wanted to jump the que and didn’t care who you screwed to do it. You were very much aware of the work dispute and did it anyway, now that you had to swallow your ego you’ve moved on to yet another union busting company, thanks for all you do for the industry.
I started in the industry in 1990, I can proudly state I’ve never screwed over another pilot or group of pilots, turned down jobs that didn’t pay enough and kept doing a job I hated until something decent was available, anyway best of luck, hopefully all the competition doesn’t end up costing you your new job.
The seniority system in aviation is a broken relic of the past, handcuffing pilots to their companies and preventing lateral movement commensurate with experience. By preventing pilots from leaving one company for another it is more responsible for lower wages in the industry than anything else. The only lack of respect around here is your like and I hope you never get forced to leave your soapbox there at Jazz and find yourself on the other side of the seniority ladder.
The other union busting company has a union, they've just realized that being able to hire a mix of experienced pilots and entry level pilots makes it a better company overall. Nothing like a little bit of competition, lets see how it all plays out.
It is not a broken system; it is a fair system. You really think you should be able to bounce around companies, displacing long serving employees from jobs because you felt like a switch?
If all that experience is so valuable, how come you had to take a job at a start-up with known labour unrest along with a bunch of others who were considered unemployable by other majors and/or career first officers?
mbav8r wrote: ↑Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:18 pm
Nope, I voted yes to the contract and never held a gun to anyone’s head to accept the new wages, the hope was they wouldn’t be able to attract pilots at those abysmal wages and they would have to raise them.
You see the problem cloak, started with Encore, then Sky Regional lowering the bar, then GGN came along and ate our lunch leaving us no choice but the pilots all 1000+ since 2015 all had a choice.
You could even go further back when WJ started at 55.00 for Captains, were you one, is that why you defend tbaylx?
Oh I see you are one of those "You had a choice" Captains. Well, glad I don't have to fly with you.
Did you or did you not have a choice?
Seriously, blaming me for your choice is beyond ridiculous, if the pay on offer was the same when I started, I would’ve stayed put in a 704 captain spot, life’s about choices and I’ll second that I’m glad I don’t fly with you either. The chip on your shoulder and reek of entitlement would be obvious.
Explain please where else I should have gone? Thanks.
Lightchop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:54 am
Explain please where else I should have gone? Thanks.
So you had to go Jazz?! There were no other companies around, you couldn't stay in your current job, and you would otherwise have been unemployed?! That's got to be the most ridiculous statement I've ever read on AvCanada; I think that even tops pdw and WeedPro's nonsense
Lightchop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:54 am
Explain please where else I should have gone? Thanks.
So you had to go Jazz?! There were no other companies around, you couldn't stay in your current job, and you would otherwise have been unemployed?! That's got to be the most ridiculous statement I've ever read on AvCanada; I think that even tops pdw and WeedPro's nonsense
What he or she said^
Heard of supply and demand?
We were in a very tight spot, we voted to strike and suffered the wrath of Rovinescu, would you have voted no to a contract that preserved what we fought for for the pilots still here, giving others a chance to go to AC.
The funny thing is, you think you would have a job at Jazz if we voted down this contract, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind any new flying and what could have been shifted away would have been. Without the first PML and being reduced to the minimum allowed under the existing CPA would’ve meant more stagnation and even possible layoffs.
You chose to come to Jazz but feel free to blame me for your life choices, I don’t regret my choice, do you?
Mrbobmarly111 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:08 am
So funny. Everyone is mad at the Swoop peeps for taking these low paying jobs and "screwing" over the industry. But what did westjet pilots get in the end? The right to go and fly at swoop for the current swoop rates.... lol. What a joke. Let me get this straight.. westjet pilots were mad ots hires accepted flying for crap pay... then pilots at westjet win the right to go and fly there for the same crap pay.... help me understand how that is winning? Plus now that its been decided by a judge westjet will just move more flying to swoop. Clap clap clap. I dont blame the swoop guy for going there. And i definitely dont blame them for leaving..... now excuse me, my thermos is empty and i need more koolaid.
Swoop conditions are too be ruled on by the arbitrator. We won’t know the pay for the contract till after the formal hearing ends December 10th. Apperently Kaplan wants it all ruled on as soon as possible.
I agree that seniority in aviation, as it is now, is a relic of the past. It lowers the status of the profession to a "non-specialized" workers. This is not good for the profession. It is much more conducive to better pay and working conditions if there were a hybrid system, seniority (for picking schedule, vacation, etc.) based on date of hire, but pay based on experience in the airline business.
The problem with the B scale at Jazz, Transat, WestJet FOs a few years ago, Sunwing, Air Canada, etc. was that it negotiated to the detriment of the people that weren't there yet, to get a measly 2% increase for the senior guys. And to be fair the senior people cannot faulted too much either, because after years of service they too want to gain a bit of raise, however measly it may be. A big part of the problem is the low entry pay at Air Canada and the airline and the senior pilots don't see a reason to change because there are people that go there. In fairness, no direct-hire pilot at Swoop has done anything new that these pilots haven't done in the past.
While this issue deserves some debate, discussion and correction, it should not be in an immature and irresponsible way of freely calling other people all kind of names not knowing their situation. This is where the internet has done some disservice that great amount of social skills and rules of engagement in debates and discussion have been lost.
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Last edited by cloak on Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mrbobmarly111 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:08 am
So funny. Everyone is mad at the Swoop peeps for taking these low paying jobs and "screwing" over the industry. But what did westjet pilots get in the end? The right to go and fly at swoop for the current swoop rates.... lol. What a joke. Let me get this straight.. westjet pilots were mad ots hires accepted flying for crap pay... then pilots at westjet win the right to go and fly there for the same crap pay.... help me understand how that is winning? Plus now that its been decided by a judge westjet will just move more flying to swoop. Clap clap clap. I dont blame the swoop guy for going there. And i definitely dont blame them for leaving..... now excuse me, my thermos is empty and i need more koolaid.
Swoop conditions are too be ruled on by the arbitrator. We won’t know the pay for the contract till after the formal hearing ends December 10th. Apperently Kaplan wants it all ruled on as soon as possible.
Buddy the arbitrator already decided on it. Look it up. It was in the news.
Mrbobmarly111 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:08 am
So funny. Everyone is mad at the Swoop peeps for taking these low paying jobs and "screwing" over the industry. But what did westjet pilots get in the end? The right to go and fly at swoop for the current swoop rates.... lol. What a joke. Let me get this straight.. westjet pilots were mad ots hires accepted flying for crap pay... then pilots at westjet win the right to go and fly there for the same crap pay.... help me understand how that is winning? Plus now that its been decided by a judge westjet will just move more flying to swoop. Clap clap clap. I dont blame the swoop guy for going there. And i definitely dont blame them for leaving..... now excuse me, my thermos is empty and i need more koolaid.
Swoop conditions are too be ruled on by the arbitrator. We won’t know the pay for the contract till after the formal hearing ends December 10th. Apperently Kaplan wants it all ruled on as soon as possible.
Buddy the arbitrator already decided on it. Look it up. It was in the news.
Maybe you could provide a link to this ruling, so far the only thing I’m aware of are interim rulings until the final arbitration is handed down.
Thanks for the chuckle Bob Marley. Nothing has been decided yet regarding Swoop conditions.
Post a link to your info and we’ll tell you how your misreading it.
In fact Mr. Bob Marley,
Avcanada is kinda boring these days and we’re all apart of the same brotherhood, so let’s have some fun. I plan on buying a couple hundred dollar bottle of rum to celebrate our new contract. I’m a glass half full type of guy, and think it’s going to be pretty good. Hey, and if it’s sh!t, I can drown my sorrows.
You stated ...
“then pilots at westjet win the right to go and fly there for the same crap pay...”
That crap pay is $103 an hour. I feel it will be higher then that but have no proof. You feel it will be same and think you have proof.
So here is the bet.
$103 an hour in Kaplan’s ruling for first year Swoop captain, I’ll send you $200 and you buy whatever you want.
Anything more then $103 an hour for first year Swoop captain you send me $200 and I’ll buy my rum.
What say you my friend ...
Interesting, might want to be careful.
If YOS has been agreed upon, and assuming no arbitrator is going to impose a 20% + pay increase on a company I can see Westjet/Swoop first year captain wages being exactly that, $103/hour with the caveat that you carry YOS as an FO over to captain position. Then reworking the scales appropriately.
Thanks for the chuckle Bob Marley. Nothing has been decided yet regarding Swoop conditions.
Post a link to your info and we’ll tell you how your misreading it.
In fact Mr. Bob Marley,
Avcanada is kinda boring these days and we’re all apart of the same brotherhood, so let’s have some fun. I plan on buying a couple hundred dollar bottle of rum to celebrate our new contract. I’m a glass half full type of guy, and think it’s going to be pretty good. Hey, and if it’s sh!t, I can drown my sorrows.
You stated ...
“then pilots at westjet win the right to go and fly there for the same crap pay...”
That crap pay is $103 an hour. I feel it will be higher then that but have no proof. You feel it will be same and think you have proof.
So here is the bet.
$103 an hour in Kaplan’s ruling for first year Swoop captain, I’ll send you $200 and you buy whatever you want.
Anything more then $103 an hour for first year Swoop captain you send me $200 and I’ll buy my rum.
What say you my friend ...
Interesting, might want to be careful.
If YOS has been agreed upon, and assuming no arbitrator is going to impose a 20% + pay increase on a company I can see Westjet/Swoop first year captain wages being exactly that, $103/hour with the caveat that you carry YOS as an FO over to captain position. Then reworking the scales appropriately.
So you think an arbitrator will overlook the fact that the swoop flying should’ve been done by WJ pilots in the first place.
Second, I’ll place the bet with the first one that wants to take it, but only one. (I can’t afford to lose that much lol)
Honestly it’s all in fun.
You in Tablyx?
Travis, I'll take the bet, if you simultaneously take a second bet.
Terms: If the WestJet Pilot Seniority List released by Kaplan gives former Encore pilots (who have flowed to WJ) their Encore DOH (to determine their place on the list), I'll give you $400. If the list comes out and the Encore pilots only get their WestJet DOH, with no credit for Encore service, you give me $400.
I suppose there is a thrid possibility that it is some kind of in-between result, but if it is, no one gets any money.
How's that? I think the most you will stand to lose is $200, because I don't think Swoop pay will be $103. I think it will be $115-$120.
I love Av canada its completely crazy. I bet you 50 womp womps and ig you consider that bet i also have another bet. But if you dont bet that bet ill bet you a different bet. How about i bet you that if your wrong and you lose your bet that i bet we all just go our separate ways. Unless you bet a different bet that i might agree to.
Anywayssss I have investigated what earlier claim and i concede that I was wrong. It is only an interm decision that the arbitrator decided that swoop pay is at the current rates etc etc.... that being said i have frienda who are part of ALPA negotiating committees at different companies and they say this still spells bad news for swooper poopers. Because if its already been decided by a judge through arbitration "even if only for the short term" when alpa westjet trys to ask for more. The company can say there is already a precedence that the judge sided in their favor. So the company will require alpa give somthing else up to increase the cureent pay.
