Westjet mask policy

[Rockie]

7) Your able to think for yourself

Clearly not.

[mbav8r]

I'm kind of a latecomer to this discussion, so bear with me.

So there's a respiratory disease making the rounds, which is pretty reliably reported to be quite serious, and which is transmitted mostly through contact with droplets that emerge from an infected person's mouth and nose.

It's been satisfactorily demonstrated that the disease can be transmitted by people who aren't suffering from symptoms and have no real way to be sure they haven't come into contact with latent droplets on surfaces in the preceding two weeks.

It's pretty certain that the average layperson isn't medically qualified to differentiate between the symptoms of say, an ordinary cold or less serious form of the flu and the early symptoms of the CV-19 virus.

Wearing a mask in public that intercepts and captures a large number of droplets that emerge from your mouth and nose seems to me to make a lot of sense, unless you live in an isolated community that has had zero active cases for several weeks. If you're travelling outside such a community, you could either just wear a mask anyway or risk having to explain why you're special and don't need to wear one.

So generally the average Canadian can't be one hundred percent sure there aren't infected droplets coming out of their nose and mouth, but the wearing of a garment that captures a large percentage of these droplets is being hotly contested?

It would seem to me that there are a few reasons to object to masks:

1) You are from, and are presently in, a community that has zero active cases and has done for several weeks, AND screens and enforces a quarantine process on any new arrivals

2) You don't believe the CV-19 virus is as prevalent, and/or contagious, and/or capable of causing serious illness as is being reported -in your learned opinion

3) You don't give a shit

4) You have a psychological problem with the masks themselves

5) You feel like you look silly in a mask and don't like being told what to do

Are there any more reasons? Personally I feel that whether they admit it or not, #5 is probably the real reason for most people.

We're mostly all pilots here - I find it funny that people who argue about the prophylactic value of a face covering -especially the ones who are worried about looking silly and don't like being told what to do- are the same who are uncomplaining and proud to stamp about the public areas of airports, sit in the cockpits of their planes, and drive to the grocery store after work, in the daytime, wearing a reflective orange road-worker vest over their uniforms.

7) Your able to think for yourself, you don't require to hold the government's hand when you need to cross the street.

Seems to me you fall into either 3) or 6), you’ve clearly missed the part where you have the right to not wear one, just not in certain places. If you don’t want to wear a mask, DON’T, just don’t come within 6’ of me, remember earlier about my lack of patience for inconsiderate assholes.
Also, really glad you mentioned crossing the street with the government holding your hand. It appears to me that they in fact do with you know, laws and stuff!
“Drivers must stop and yield the right-of-way to all pedestrians about to cross at marked and unmarked crosswalks.
It is illegal to pass traffic ahead of you that is slowing down or stopped for pedestrians using crosswalks.
Do not park or stop within three metres of a crosswalk.
Be careful to look for pedestrians, especially when turning or about to proceed across a sidewalk.”

[montado]

For myself the issue with the masks is its all about prevention and reduction of risk. For example the policies are geared so that you can remove the mask to eat, or you can remove your mask in the gym to work out.

My problem is the government has set the rules for what risk is okay and what risks are not. Maybe my values are not completely inline with those values. So the government has elected to @#$! our industry, yet gyms are open and covid is spreading within the gyms because you remove your mask as per the policy. So the whole mask rules makes winners and losers because the government decides where to give some flexibility for risk and also decides who gets shut down completely.

For that reason my preference is to have my own say in how I want to use my mask. I don't think half of the policies around masks and the lockdown even make sense. In my city the lifeguards were paid to clean the outdoor splash pad every hour this summer. It was completely useless and stupid the shit that was going on, so people lose faith in the policies.

So I'm not anti masker, I'm just trying to rationalize all these policies and it's hard to keep up and while some make lots of sense to me many make me scratch my head.

[Heliian]

you can remove your mask in the gym to work out.

Really? I don't go to gyms so I wouldn't know. In Ontario, I was under the impression if it was an open business you needed a mask on as a customer.

[AirFrame]

My problem is the government has set the rules for what risk is okay and what risks are not. Maybe my values are not completely inline with those values. So the government has elected to @#$! our industry, yet gyms are open and covid is spreading within the gyms because you remove your mask as per the policy. So the whole mask rules makes winners and losers because the government decides where to give some flexibility for risk and also decides who gets shut down completely.

Maybe keep in mind that these policies are being made by people whose job it is, likely 24/7 these days, to evaluate these risks in detail and rank them. A whole network of scientists, epidemiologists, statisticians, etc. who have access to the latest scientific knowledge as it's coming in.

Do you not think that they have a better handle on the situation than you, an unemployed pilot who likely has zero training in any of those fields, isn't reading the latest medical research, and simply doesn't like wearing masks?

[fishface]

My problem is the government has set the rules for what risk is okay and what risks are not. Maybe my values are not completely inline with those values. So the government has elected to @#$! our industry, yet gyms are open and covid is spreading within the gyms because you remove your mask as per the policy. So the whole mask rules makes winners and losers because the government decides where to give some flexibility for risk and also decides who gets shut down completely.

Maybe keep in mind that these policies are being made by people whose job it is, likely 24/7 these days, to evaluate these risks in detail and rank them. A whole network of scientists, epidemiologists, statisticians, etc. who have access to the latest scientific knowledge as it's coming in.

Do you not think that they have a better handle on the situation than you, an unemployed pilot who likely has zero training in any of those fields, isn't reading the latest medical research, and simply doesn't like wearing masks?

So are you wearing a mask while having sex as per Tamtams latest advice?
Normally I’d agree but since the start of this thing, the “experts” have been way off. Nobody has a god damn clue.

[Rockie]

Normally I’d agree but since the start of this thing, the “experts” have been way off. Nobody has a god damn clue.

So we're supposed to take your advise instead?

Where people follow expert advice the infections go down. Where economies open up while following expert advice the infection rate increase is controlled. Where people ignore expert advice infections go up uncontrollably. The evidence proving these statements is everywhere and in the open fishface, you just have to open your eyes and pay attention. So open your eyes and pay attention.

[fishface]

I think we all need to open our eyes and pay attention. The fact of the matter is nobody knows shit. Every countries experts have their own expert opinion. So who is right? It’s been nothing but contradictions since the start.
Didn’t Israel announce they had a vaccine a month or so ago?

[Heliian]

I think we all need to open our eyes and pay attention. The fact of the matter is nobody knows shit. Every countries experts have their own expert opinion. So who is right? It’s been nothing but contradictions since the start.
Didn’t Israel announce they had a vaccine a month or so ago?

God, you are such a drama queen and misinformed at that. There are several vaccines in testing right now around the world.

The facts are out there if you bothered to look, we've taken a very modest approach here in Canada and we are doing very well.

What do you think are the contradictions? Do you not understand the reason for adapting your gameplan to a changing and fluid situation?

Also, it seems you have a personal problem with Dr. Theresa Tam. She is a well educated doctor who never expected to have to deal with a situation on such a scale, imo she's been doing well despite the expected criticism from the interweebs. She is also the public voice for our country's health care system and is disseminating information from other global health organizations.

[AirFrame]

So are you wearing a mask while having sex as per Tamtams latest advice?

I guess I should know better than to feed the trolls, but this *is* AvCanada I guess...

[montado]

Does anyone think there is anything political about this pandemic? I have. A prediction. After the USA election the pandemic will quietly go away.

[northernpilot2]

Does anyone think there is anything political about this pandemic? I have. A prediction. After the USA election the pandemic will quietly go away.

I think trump will win again, I'd vote for him. Hes not the greatest person, but hes much better than all the other shitty options.

[complexintentions]

He gets it, he just doesn't give a shit. It's easy in a time like this to see who actually GAS about neighbors, and who lives in the 'its all about me, screw the rest of you' kind of world.

Which is also why Asian cultures, which tend to value the community over the individual, have absolutely made a joke of Western cultures, which tend to value the individual over the collective, in the handling of a global pandemic.

Now, there are downsides to both ways of doing things, but when it comes to a highly infectious disease...

Just listen to the temper tantrums over even the suggestion of voluntary WEARING OF CLOTH MASKS!

Amazing.

When I read things like this and see the brave rugged individualists spouting their bullshit about their "rights" regarding something so simple I just think, "maybe we DO just deserve to all die".

[Rockie]

I have. A prediction. After the USA election the pandemic will quietly go away.

That's a relief. Don't forget to tell the 870,000+ dead people they can come back to life because the US election is over.

[montado]

I have. A prediction. After the USA election the pandemic will quietly go away.

That's a relief. Don't forget to tell the 870,000+ dead people they can come back to life because the US election is over.

You mean along with the other 30 million people who have passed away since march of many different causes?

People want to compare this virus to the Spanish flu. The Spanish flu wiped out over 3 percent of the world population. Covid so far has done what less than 0.01 percent of the world population? Still less deadly than heart disease and cancer?

Definitely political because the logic doesn't add up. Teachers are out screaming people will die! Yet death trends vs rate of infection show covid is not really that deadly and becoming less deadly.

Other possible reason for the fear pumping maybe it's climate change. If we convince everyone covid is bad enough maybe we can just bring air travel to a halt and reduce carbon footprint. The funny part is you can have any motive you like and just scream "you could die!" And that's all it takes to keep the pandemic rolling.

[Capt. Underpants]

I like this take.

[northernpilot2]

I like this take.

If the government told everyone put the fork in an electrical socket, most people would. Sad.

[montado]

Evolution has taught us to comply, And that I do, as I wear my mask.

You know when you hit a red light at 3am and haven't seen a car for 5 km... The other direction has the walk signal... Time is passing. It makes zero sense to sit at the red light but you can't think for yourself. It's the law to sit at that red light. Common sense is not allowed. What if the traffic sensor doesn't pick up your vehicle and the light won't change? Do you reverse and try to move over it... Ah there! The flashing hand! Now just another 30 seconds and I'll get the green. I can finally keep driving on the empty street.

Funny you tell me to use my brain rockie, as that's exactly what I have been doing. I have been reading a lot about the pandemic. I think what you really meant to say is don't think just do as you're told.

[Rockie]

You know when you hit a red light at 3am and haven't seen a car for 5 km... The other direction has the walk signal... Time is passing. It makes zero sense to sit at the red light but you can't think for yourself. It's the law to sit at that red light. Common sense is not allowed. What if the traffic sensor doesn't pick up your vehicle and the light won't change? Do you reverse and try to move over it... Ah there! The flashing hand! Now just another 30 seconds and I'll get the green. I can finally keep driving on the empty street.

WTF are you talking about here? Try and stay on topic.

Funny you tell me to use my brain rockie, as that's exactly what I have been doing. I have been reading a lot about the pandemic.

Let me know when you've read as much as the people with PHD's in viral diseases and I may give what you say some serious consideration.

I think what you really meant to say is don't think just do as you're told.

You're absolutely correct, because what you're thinking is complete, uninformed nonsense. So do the people around you a favour and just do as you're told.

[Capt. Underpants]

If the government told everyone put the fork in an electrical socket, most people would. Sad.

It isn’t the government telling them to do that, it’s the selfish and inept crusaders in the anti-mask brigade.

[Meatservo]

The Spanish flu wiped out over 3 percent of the world population. Covid so far has done what less than 0.01 percent of the world population? Still less deadly than heart disease and cancer?

Well, the "first wave" of Spanish flu in the first quarter of 1918 didn't kill very many people, comparatively. No quarantines or preventive measures were instituted, and there were about 75,000 flu-related deaths in the United States (where the "Spanish" flu actually originated) versus around 63,000 for a similar time-period in 1915. So roughly 15,000 people in the United States died in six months during the first wave of Spanish Flu.

We're about six months into the CV-19 pandemic, and, just to keep the numbers relative, we'll use the United States again, which has had 191,000 deaths, or about twelve times the 1918 number, in the last six months, or "first wave"... in a country with a population only three times higher than it was in 1918.

So it looks sort of like the CV-19 is about four times deadlier in the United States than the Spanish flu was, if you want to compare timelines.

This is despite the better hygiene, better medical treatments, better communication, and the fact that at least SOME people are actually trying to stay separate from each other.

Definitely political because the logic doesn't add up.

Well actually it sort of does.

[northernpilot2]

You know when you hit a red light at 3am and haven't seen a car for 5 km... The other direction has the walk signal... Time is passing. It makes zero sense to sit at the red light but you can't think for yourself. It's the law to sit at that red light. Common sense is not allowed. What if the traffic sensor doesn't pick up your vehicle and the light won't change? Do you reverse and try to move over it... Ah there! The flashing hand! Now just another 30 seconds and I'll get the green. I can finally keep driving on the empty street.

I used to run the red light all the time after making sure it was safe to cross. After I did it many times, I got a letter in the mail warning me about not doing it again. Lol. They have hidden cameras these days. Our government is very desperate for cash, they love to target drivers, hence all these stupid rules. Common sense is out the window. You must follow step A- stop, Step B- look, Step C- gas pedal, and so on... I just wish the cops weren't as stupid as the politicians, then we can get somewhere.

[Rockie]

[quote=montado post_id=<a href="tel:1126345">1126345</a> time=<a href="tel:1599259434">1599259434</a> user_id=54503]
You know when you hit a red light at 3am and haven't seen a car for 5 km... The other direction has the walk signal... Time is passing. It makes zero sense to sit at the red light but you can't think for yourself. It's the law to sit at that red light. Common sense is not allowed. What if the traffic sensor doesn't pick up your vehicle and the light won't change? Do you reverse and try to move over it... Ah there! The flashing hand! Now just another 30 seconds and I'll get the green. I can finally keep driving on the empty street.

I used to run the red light all the time.
[/quote]

Of course you did, the “except northernpilot2” sign obviously fell off.

[hotdog1]

I’ve tried to not post but I just can’t restrain myself anymore
To all the people afraid of the virus -please, just go to stats Canada and look at the charts for “excess mortality”
You may be surprised to see that excess deaths are not killing Canadians in mass numbers.
I just looked, again, and there are many weeks of negative ‘excess deaths’ during this pandemic. There is even a note regarding one week in Nova Scotia when 37 excess deaths were reported-DONT get excited to think this number supports the fear agenda, the note attributes that high number to the mass shooting, not covid.
Just remember, most deaths are in LTC homes, so the virus killing these people is likely just speeding up the deaths of people that would most likely have died soon anyways, and don’t reply with “oh so you think old people’s lives don’t matter...”-the fact is we all die, and people in LTC homes are generally elderly and vulnerable and likely to die sooner rather than later.
Ask yourself, why is the media only reporting and repeating the numbers of cases’-as of cases mean automatic deaths. There is very little being said about hospitalization rates and ICU patients. Remember this was all about not overwhelming the health care system, that was accomplished BEFORE mask use.
The curve was flattened BEFORE mask use. The narrative has changed to one of “ifs” and “maybes” to keep the fear going.

If you’re not over 65 with serious underlying conditions then you are fine. People over 65 with serious underlying conditions are over 90% of deaths. That would leave about 1000 people dead over 6 months from this virus, over the same time period 135 000 Canadians have died of other causes. Diabetes and obesity account for 20% of deaths, that is far far more than covid.

So, to summarize, look at the hard data and the numbers and stop listening to the fear narrative being constantly repeated by the media as if we were all about to die if you don’t wear a mask.

[mbav8r]

I’ve tried to not post but I just can’t restrain myself anymore
To all the people afraid of the virus -please, just go to stats Canada and look at the charts for “excess mortality”
You may be surprised to see that excess deaths are not killing Canadians in mass numbers.
I just looked, again, and there are many weeks of negative ‘excess deaths’ during this pandemic. There is even a note regarding one week in Nova Scotia when 37 excess deaths were reported-DONT get excited to think this number supports the fear agenda, the note attributes that high number to the mass shooting, not covid.
Just remember, most deaths are in LTC homes, so the virus killing these people is likely just speeding up the deaths of people that would most likely have died soon anyways, and don’t reply with “oh so you think old people’s lives don’t matter...”-the fact is we all die, and people in LTC homes are generally elderly and vulnerable and likely to die sooner rather than later.
Ask yourself, why is the media only reporting and repeating the numbers of cases’-as of cases mean automatic deaths. There is very little being said about hospitalization rates and ICU patients. Remember this was all about not overwhelming the health care system, that was accomplished BEFORE mask use.
The curve was flattened BEFORE mask use. The narrative has changed to one of “ifs” and “maybes” to keep the fear going.

If you’re not over 65 with serious underlying conditions then you are fine. People over 65 with serious underlying conditions are over 90% of deaths. That would leave about 1000 people dead over 6 months from this virus, over the same time period 135 000 Canadians have died of other causes. Diabetes and obesity account for 20% of deaths, that is far far more than covid.

So, to summarize, look at the hard data and the numbers and stop listening to the fear narrative being constantly repeated by the media as if we were all about to die if you don’t wear a mask.

You should have kept refraining, the majority is not all, leaving some risk for otherwise healthy young adults who would otherwise have lived long lives, who are you to decide that wearing a mask for those people is too much to ask.
How about the young healthy who contract it and bring it home to their elderly parents who is living with them because, they’re young enough not to need a care home.
Put yourself in the position of killing your elderly parent, the damage that would do to your psyche, to your marriage, to your relationship with your siblings and so on. Is a mask so much trouble to ask for, I mean if you don’t give a shit about the 1 foot in the grave LTC residents, at least the ones that were likely to lead a somewhat healthy golden years.
I have a parent living with me, I’m very careful going out and about but even before she moved in, I was taking those precautions, I was even wearing a mask before it became such a huge inconvenience for the inconsiderate aholes, who apparently don’t have anyone in their life worth the small yet apparently effective measure.
I honestly don’t understand why this is even a thing, even if it had a 10% chance of being 40% effective, I would still do it