United Airlines hiring goals

[photofly]

I never said women shouldn’t have careers, but 99.999% of the time that mean’s a two income houshold

Boy do you ever need to open your eyes past the borders of your comfortable middle class ghetto!

...it had 100% to do with your sex. We are wired different and have different wants and priorities.

I regret that for as long as you think that to be true (and are not just trolling) you ARE the problem that United is taking action against.

[rookiepilot]

I never said women shouldn’t have careers, but 99.999% of the time that mean’s a two income houshold[/quote]Boy do you ever need to open your eyes past the border of your middle class ghetto!

No kidding. Try growing up, son.

[C-GGGQ]

I never said women shouldn’t have careers, but 99.999% of the time that mean’s a two income houshold

Boy do you ever need to open your eyes past the borders of your comfortable middle class ghetto!

...it had 100% to do with your sex. We are wired different and have different wants and priorities.

I regret that for as long as you think that to be true (and are not just trolling) you ARE the problem that United is taking action against.

I live in a slummy basement apartment with no control over the heat. Not some “middle class ghetto”. Are you really disputing that men and women have different priorities and desires?

[C-GGGQ]

I never said women shouldn’t have careers, but 99.999% of the time that mean’s a two income houshold

Boy do you ever need to open your eyes past the border of your middle class ghetto!

No kidding. Try growing up, son.

Try reading. And son? Really? Nothing i’ve said is untrue. See many stay at home husbands?

[rookiepilot]

Boy do you ever need to open your eyes past the border of your middle class ghetto!

No kidding. Try growing up, son.

Try reading. And son? Really? Nothing i’ve said is untrue. See many stay at home husbands?

Ever heard of single Mom's?

Sounds like that's a novel concept for you.

[C-GGGQ]

No kidding. Try growing up, son.

Try reading. And son? Really? Nothing i’ve said is untrue. See many stay at home husbands?

Ever heard of single Mom's?

Sounds like that's a novel concept for you.

Of course I have. Are you trying to imply that’s the majority or the norm?

[ReserveTank]

Any sentence written by a man that begins "Women are generally...." is 100% guaranteed to be a humdinger which tells you nothing about women and everything about the man who writes it. Yours is not an exception.

You're denying nature, and therefore, science. Like most Western men, you are uneducated on the basics of humans and the differences of the sexes.

I'd like the people who fill well paid and responsible jobs to reflect society around them.

Our society has been steadily devolving for the past 60 years. You'll certainly reap the reflection of society that you seek.

I think diversity is a moral good. If there's a way to achieve it I think it should be explored.

Diversity's real meaning is forcing people into positions that they weren't qualified for or didn't desire in the first place. One way diversity is achieved is through lowering/eliminating testing standards.
There is no doubt that the state will achieve it-They are way beyond the exploration phase. It's only news to you now.

Of course, what you're failing to mention is what effect booting White guys from an industry will have:

Severely lowered wages
Extreme competition for few open jobs
Reduction/elimination of benefits
Return of loose or even abusive contract language

You know, all those things that terrible Whitey fought against.

You see, it's not about diversity and moral good. It's about resetting the clock on working conditions so that every pilot can work like an Amazon distribution centre slave or an Uber driver. The oligarchy has already firmly established through decades of trial and error that diversity is the way to create a slave class. So what you're promoting is indeed abusive to women and...diverse people. It's slavery, the very thing you believe that you're against.

As I've said, it's all psychology, and you've been tricked.

LOL. ^ when pilots forget we're just pilots. If you were smart enough to be anything else, you would have been anything else. Have you quit beating your wife yet?

The question is-Did yours quit beating you?


p.s. You completely sure that I didn't study and qualify in another discipline?

[photofly]

I live in a slummy basement apartment with no control over the heat. Not some “middle class ghetto”. Are you really disputing that men and women have different priorities and desires?

The middle class ghetto you inhabit has nothing to do with the walls of apartment. It's your mind that's stuck, not your body.

To answer your question, yes, a gazillion times over I dispute that "men" and "women" have different priorities and desires determined by their sex. Not since the 1950's, when most women's aspirations were limited by society to be that they marry someone who would keep them.

[ReserveTank]

Seriously: try to think of a reason why a sewer worker shouldn’t be a woman, without forming some discriminatory and disgusting piece of generalizing yeuch that starts “women in general are/aren’t...” any time your mind starts to go there, realize you’re part of the problem.

Women are generally repulsed by manual labour and traditionally male work roles because of BIOLOGY. All you have to defend your point is conformist psychobabble. In the real world, we have biology, nature. You know, hormones and the feelings that they cause.

Moderators this whole discussion is extremely offensive to women and I hope you remove it.

The lady next to me said that this discussion is not offensive, and asked please don't speak for her. That in itself is sexist.
She also said that men who coddle women are seen as weak and a poor choice of partner.

Fight it.

Well, fighting cannot be direct, it must be done with tact. People with signing authority at their company can get creative.

Do you think it is systemic discrimination because you never see a female trash collector. Or working the sewars, etc.

No, he only wants encroachment upon the "good" jobs because it inflicts more despair upon the negatively affected.

[photofly]

Women are generally repulsed by manual labour and traditionally male work roles ...

You don't need to go any further: you are the problem. In fact, you could have stopped after the first three words.

Do you think it is systemic discrimination because you never see a female trash collector. Or working the sewars, etc.

No, he only wants encroachment upon the "good" jobs because it inflicts more despair upon the negatively affected.

You also don't read. Yes. As I wrote clearly, the fact that there are fewer female trash collectors and sewer inspectors is a result of systemic discrimination.

[ALPApolicy]

You also don't read. Yes. As I wrote clearly, the fact that there are fewer female trash collectors and sewer inspectors is a result of systemic discrimination.

You are delusional beyond words. Is the fact that 5% of pre-school teachers a result of systemic sexism? No...

I will grant you that politically, people who think like you have power right now. That won't last. Enjoy it. As long as you keep putting on the "sexism tinted glasses" every morning you will find it everywhere.

I wish you peace. Resentment is a poison you feed yourself...

[photofly]

You are delusional beyond words. Is the fact that 5% of pre-school teachers [are men] a result of systemic sexism? No...

Yes. Absolutely. Is it appropriate to consider the preferential hire of men as pre-school teachers? Yes it is.

[ALPApolicy]

Ummm, you really need to spend some time thinking about the concept of agency. We all have agency over our lives, for the most part. Most men don't want to be pre-school teachers. Evolution means that men evolved to be less nurturing than women (on a population level). Women (on a population level), more than men, prefer jobs with more social interaction. Men like things like chopping things down with axes or attaching steel girders together or sniping at targets or coding for hours and hours in front of a computer. Women, on a population level, like interacting with others at work.

These facts are borne out by observation. Left to their own devices, and free from manipulation by misguided do-gooders, women and men will choose jobs that suit their psychological profiles. There are differences between the male and female brain, on a population level.

You can cry discrimination all you want, but the fact is there is no large scale gender pay gap, no patriarchy working to oppress women, and no discrimination in hiring women. Legislation has created a more or less level playing field.

[photofly]

Well, clearly I disagree with every substantive point you make and alleged "fact" you claim, in your last post. Happily, your point of view is disappearing into the rear view mirror of history, but I do acknowledge the airplane industry is late to this long overdue change.

[simply_no_one]

This thread is fucking hilarious.

[JoeShithe]

Photofly clearly has limited, myopic view of the industry and the professional standards we adhere to. The doors are wide open for anyone in the western world who wants the job, no excuses. The Far and Middle East are catching up as well.
Your arguments are obtuse at best and demean anyone that is involved in every aspect of aviation, professional, private or enthusiast.
I have been a single minority in a classroom and crew, never really dawned on me that I was inhibited by any means.

Or perhaps your trolling for a more caveman response like maybe if you dolled yourself up a bit and wore some heels guys might pay attention to you. If that’s sounds degrading to you then you now have an idea what you sound like to most of us.

[photofly]

Photofly clearly has limited, myopic view of the industry and the professional standards we adhere to. The doors are wide open for anyone in the western world who wants the job, no excuses. The Far and Middle East are catching up as well.
Your arguments are obtuse at best and demean anyone that is involved in every aspect of aviation, professional, private or enthusiast.
I have been a single minority in a classroom and crew, never really dawned on me that I was inhibited by any means.

Or perhaps your trolling for a more caveman response like maybe if you dolled yourself up a bit and wore some heels guys might pay attention to you. If that’s sounds degrading to you then you now have an idea what you sound like to most of us.

So that's another post by a white guy (or girl) who has reached some level of success in the airline industry saying he (or she) has never noticed any discrimination against women and therefore it can't possibly exist. Yawn.

What's more worthy of note is the choice to use graphic imagery of women intended by you to be sexually degrading as some kind of insult or punishment. Why would the thought of wearing lipstick and heels bother me or make me feel degraded? For all you know I do, every day. So do a lot of transvestite men. So do many women. Is it something to be ashamed of? Like many posts in this thread it tells us everything about the attitude towards women of the person who wrote it.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

To answer your question, yes, a gazillion times over I dispute that "men" and "women" have different priorities and desires determined by their sex. Not since the 1950's, when most women's aspirations were limited by society to be that they marry someone who would keep them.

While I agree with you on most things, PF, on this point I don't. It's not about limitations - it's also about aspirations, and I just don't think that men and women, on a population level, tend to have the same aspirations. Without getting into the specifics, I do believe there are reasons that some fields are male dominated and others are female dominated, and have been for centuries, and it's not just a matter of opportunity,

Kinda aside, but kinda not: men and women will be equal, when men can bear children, and not until then.

[photofly]

While I agree with you on most things, PF, on this point I don't. It's not about limitations - it's also about aspirations, and I just don't think that men and women, on a population level, tend to have the same aspirations.

I, too, don't think women have the same aspirations as men: as a concrete example, fewer women want to be pilots than men. But I see that as a symptom of a huge problem, not as evidence that there is no problem.

LIke I said earlier, if in a country 40% of children born are girls and 60% are boys, you don't have to ask *if* the girls are being murdered or aborted. You just need to stop it.

If 93% of airline pilots are men, and 7% are women, you don't need to ask *if* there's discrimination. You can skip ahead to doing something about it.

There's nothing about being a pilot that suits men better than women, and there's no valid reason that fewer women should aspire to it. It's not good enough to brush it off and say "they just don't want it". What's stopping them from wanting it? I think the answer is all around you.

Kinda aside, but kinda not: men and women will be equal, when men can bear children, and not until then.

I reject the excuse that having a vagina and a womb, or a penis, has any relevance to whether someone can, or should be interested in flying an airplane.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I, too, don't think women have the same aspirations as men: as a concrete example, fewer women want to be pilots than men. But I see that as a symptom of a huge problem, not as evidence that there is no problem.

There's nothing about being a pilot that suits men better than women, and there's no valid reason that fewer women should aspire to it. It's not good enough to brush it off and say "they just don't want it". What's stopping them? I think the answer is all around you.

Well, they don't. Not currently. The question is why, and whether or not we can change that. Where I disagree is that flying an airplane does carry an inherent risk. Perhaps this risk entices more men to the field than women. I don't know, but that seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

Kinda aside, but kinda not: men and women will be equal, when men can bear children, and not until then.

I reject the excuse that having a vagina and a womb, or a penis, has any relevance to whether someone can, or should be interested in flying an airplane.

That point has nothing to do with flying an airplane and is only tangential to this discussion.

[photofly]

Well, they don't. Not currently. The question is why, and whether or not we can change that.

Absence of role models. And yes, we can do something about it. United is.

That point has nothing to do with flying an airplane and is only tangential to this discussion.

Apparently it's not tangential to the discussion. Everyone apart from me seems satisfied that airline pilots are men to women in a ratio of 13 to 1. I think it's horrifying.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Apparently it's not tangential to the discussion. Everyone apart from me seems satisfied that airline pilots are men to women in a ratio of 13 to 1. I think it's horrifying.

I am not satisfied with that status quo. We merely disagree on the reasons and the remedy,

[photofly]

I am not satisfied with that status quo. We merely disagree on the reasons and the remedy,

I haven't noticed any other constructive suggestions by any other poster in this thread. To a man (irony intended) the consensus is there is no problem.
And as a (I guess) white man, you don't lack role models in the aviation industry. Or in the software industry.

[C-GGGQ]

There's nothing about being a pilot that suits men better than women, and there's no valid reason that fewer women should aspire to it.

On a population level I can think of several things that keep women from Aviation and similarly trucking. Long hours, lack of home life, inflexible schedules, benefits, low starting wage. These are all things that many industries agree are less acceptable to women than men. The difference here is Trucking is attempting to attract women by making the job more appealing. Aviation is trying to, for lack of a better word, bribe women to join so they can increase the pilot supply so they don’t have to make working conditions better.

[photofly]

These are all things that many industries agree are less acceptable to women than men.

That is not an answer. It simply pushes the question down the road, so let me ask it. Why are they less acceptable to women?