Porter receiving E195-E2?

[TrustinThrust]

Signing bonus for DEC's. Training to start this summer in Paris. First year pay for the left seat around 120/hr. Awaiting further details on payscale/wawcon.

If Porter is looking for qualified and experienced E-jet training Captains, it will have to be a pretty healthy bonus. For qualified line Captains/DEC, $120k to start with a one time incentive payment might be enough to stimulate subscription, particularly for E175 Captains lower on the pay scale at Jazz.

The new fleet type Chief Pilot is ex-SKV/Jazz. I am certain there will be overtures to some E175 training pilots at Jazz. These training pilots will be comfortably making $140-150k at Jazz. I wonder how much Porter is prepared to pay a type qualified ACP? They will need quite a few to spool up the program and get TC sign off.

What it may come down to is risk tolerance. Jazz is a guaranteed gig until 2035. And Porter? Who knows.

Several former SKV Flt ops managers seemed more than happy to move on from Jazz. Now time to see if it will be the same for the former SKV E175 training pilots and E175 line Captains. The younger ones probably have a move to AC in their long term plan. Will have to decide if that path will be quicker via Jazz or Porter/OTS. And the older ones - it might be about relative seniority and T4 and job security.

Time will tell.

Depends on your definite of 'healthy', but I'm hearing 20K as the signing bonus. Whether that is enough to lure away current E175 ACPs and training Captains remains to be seen.

[PT6onH20]

Depends on your definite of 'healthy', but I'm hearing 20K as the signing bonus. Whether that is enough to lure away current E175 ACPs and training Captains remains to be seen.

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[TeePeeCreeper]

Signing bonus for DEC's. Training to start this summer in Paris. First year pay for the left seat around 120/hr. Awaiting further details on payscale/wawcon.

If Porter is looking for qualified and experienced E-jet training Captains, it will have to be a pretty healthy bonus. For qualified line Captains/DEC, $120k to start with a one time incentive payment might be enough to stimulate subscription, particularly for E175 Captains lower on the pay scale at Jazz.

The new fleet type Chief Pilot is ex-SKV/Jazz. I am certain there will be overtures to some E175 training pilots at Jazz. These training pilots will be comfortably making $140-150k at Jazz. I wonder how much Porter is prepared to pay a type qualified ACP? They will need quite a few to spool up the program and get TC sign off.

What it may come down to is risk tolerance. Jazz is a guaranteed gig until 2035. And Porter? Who knows.

Several former SKV Flt ops managers seemed more than happy to move on from Jazz. Now time to see if it will be the same for the former SKV E175 training pilots and E175 line Captains. The younger ones probably have a move to AC in their long term plan. Will have to decide if that path will be quicker via Jazz or Porter/OTS. And the older ones - it might be about relative seniority and T4 and job security.

Time will tell.

Depends on your definite of 'healthy', but I'm hearing 20K as the signing bonus. Whether that is enough to lure away current E175 ACPs and training Captains remains to be seen.

What a sad state of affairs.
Recently saw a job post for a US based FO position on a light jet for 115K USD.

TPC

[Grey_Wolf]

Pay Scales for the E2 have been released to the pilot group at Porter. Management has asked to keep it private and confidential.

For those outside wondering, it's comparable to other (Flair, Sunwing, Swoop) Canadian 737 operators.

[ant_321]

Pay Scales for the E2 have been released to the pilot group at Porter. Management has asked to keep it private and confidential.

For those outside wondering, it's comparable to other (Flair, Sunwing, Swoop) Canadian 737 operators.

I’m assuming you mean comparable starting rate because those 3 pay scales too out at very different numbers. Can you leak roughly the top end? Closer to swoop or SWG?

[Grey_Wolf]

More than Flair and Swoop, less than Sunwing and AirTransat; both for CA & FO

AFAIK, Swoop only has a 3 years scale

[Latitude]

Wild guess;

Most senior FO: 105-110k
Most senior CA: 150K

[thepoors]

@#$! company confidentiality on salaries. Discuss your shitty pay people, being secretive about it helps no one.

E-195
80hrs base

FO
1. 63.68
2. 74.46
3. 81.92
4. 87.26
5. 94.32
6. 98.24
7. 101.36
8. 103.30
9. 105.71
10. 107.96

CA
1. 127.62
2. 134.48
3. 143.07
4. 151.14
5. 156.74
6. 162.43
7. 168.66
8. 174.62
9. 180.76
10. 187.12
11. 192.63
12. 198.79

I'll leave it up to each individual to draw their own conclusions but when you're only marginally better than Swoop...

[Grey_Wolf]

Let's do the math ...

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

[hithere]

Stupid question maybe but does everyone go to the 1st year payscale or if you've been at Porter for several years already, do you slide in at the appropriate years of service?

[Grey_Wolf]

AFAIK, they did honor some YOS, but it's a very select few (31 Captains), about 10% of the pilot group that will start a little higher.
(13 on Year 3, 18 on Year 2). From what I hear, it's a very sore point amongst the pilot group that someone who has been with Porter for almost 10 years will start out at the same salary as an OTS hire.

For everyone else, back to Year 1

[Latitude]

Let's do the math ...

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

There's no narrowbody payscale at Air Transat anymore. A321 pilots earn widebody payscale so it is much higher than this. Senior FO tops at 146K and Senior CA at 237K. Hence my guess of 105k-110k for senior FO and 150K senior CA at Porter. I was completely off with the CA rate. 190K is pretty good.

[thepoors]

Let's do the math ...

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

There's no narrowbody payscale at Air Transat anymore. A321 pilots earn widebody payscale so it is much higher than this. Senior FO tops at 146K and Senior CA at 237K. Hence my guess of 105k-110k for senior FO and 150K senior CA at Porter. I was completely off with the CA rate. 190K is pretty good.

Those are also outdated Sunwing numbers Grey Wolf is using.
FO pay starts at 57k and tops at 95k, CA pay starts at 117k and tops at 185k.

[Inthrustwetrust]

Are they trying to steal all the Jazz pilots haha. I can see alot of guys jumping ship who are botL here

[slob driver]

Let's do the math ...

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

From my thinking, comparing Porter to the above is not a proper comparison. The EMB 195 is substantially smaller than a 737-800/737 MAX 8 or A321.
From a purely Canadian perspective, Porter pilots have done well to capture these pay rates out of the gate. Of course, compared to our US brethren, we are all basket cases.
While it is too bad that years of service has not been achieved, that is a high bar that has only been achieved by AC, Rouge, WJA, and Jazz (to a limited degree). The cost of YOS is high and uses up a lot of bargaining capital. It's something that often gets overlooked in Canada. Take WJ for instance. The 1st year captain rate is $158.45/hour. TRZ NB year 1 pay rate from LOA #16 is $154.59/hour. Fairly comparable (especially considering the fact that it seems that TRZ ALPA pattern bargained off of WJA ALPA for NB rates for LOA #16), but a WJ pilot that upgrades at year 8 versus the year 8 upgrade at TRZ is $200.06/hour versus the year one TRZ pay ( or TRZ LOA #16 year 2 of $159.83/hour since I think TRZ has a stipulation of upgrading at year two pay if one has been there for that amount of time or longer) That is a significant delta in pay rates due YOS.
Not saying that the TRZ or WJA contract is better or worse. I mean, LOU 2 is an abomination, so I'm certainly not throwing stones at glass houses here. I just thought that an acknowledgement that Porter pilots have done well is appropriate.
It seems that Porter management might actually value their pilots, unlike Lynx, or Swoop. Those payrates are disgraceful. It is not surprising that Swoop has had their DEC post up for a substantial amount of time. Likely this is as a result of very little interest in working for Swoop.
I have hope that the Porter rates show that we are beginning to see an arms race heat up for pilot attraction and retention. If Porter can afford these rates for an EMB-195, what about WJ/WSW for 737's? I cannot imagine parity between the two would break the WJ/Onex piggy bank. What can Encore afford to pay their pilots in light of the latest AC vacancy bid and subsequent Jazz hiring? We as pilots should be empowered by all the hiring that is presently taking place to pattern off of each other as much as possible. Taking into consideration that Encore is easily the second largest regional in Canada, at some point Encore will likely have to up pilot pay via contractual gains, especially when comparing the Encore pay to Jazz (and Canadian North/Morningstar ATR compensation deals that were recently signed).

[slob driver]

Let's do the math ...

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K as per LOA #16
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

There's no narrowbody payscale at Air Transat anymore. A321 pilots earn widebody payscale so it is much higher than this. Senior FO tops at 146K and Senior CA at 237K. Hence my guess of 105k-110k for senior FO and 150K senior CA at Porter. I was completely off with the CA rate. 190K is pretty good.

Hi there,

Just looking for confirmation, the widebody pay if one is CCQ'ed as per LOA #7 is for the A321 LR only? Does TRZ still have any other versions of the A321 that would translate to a pilot being paid the NB rates as found in LOA #16? Pilotcareercentre shows that TRZ still has some A321-200's. Would these airframes still be paid at NB rates? Or is everyone CCQ'ed, so everyone is receiving the WB rates from LOA #7?

[rudder]

I agree. These rates are definitely targeted at attracting current qualified E jet pilots in Canada and possibly even pilots that are experienced but were looking at Lynx/Swoop and perhaps to a certain degree Flair/Morningstar/Cargojet.

Canada unfortunately has set a low bar for Pilot compensation for the local industry. Therefore, it is tough for a single carrier to jump too far out ahead in pilot compensation. However, as the sellers market returns and deepens the dynamic of enhanced compensation (to include WAWCON/Pension/Benefits) in order to staff schedule and growth will become increasingly competitive between carriers that aspire to expand.

The only possible scenario that continues the buyers market for pilots in the medium term is failure of one or more of the existing or expanding players.

[flyingcanuck]

Let's do the math ...

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

.....

It seems that Porter management might actually value their pilots, unlike Lynx, or Swoop. Those payrates are disgraceful. It is not surprising that Swoop has had their DEC post up for a substantial amount of time. Likely this is as a result of very little interest in working for Swoop.
I have hope that the Porter rates show that we are beginning to see an arms race heat up for pilot attraction and retention. If Porter can afford these rates for an EMB-195, what about WJ/WSW for 737's? I cannot imagine parity between the two would break the WJ/Onex piggy bank. What can Encore afford to pay their pilots in light of the latest AC vacancy bid and subsequent Jazz hiring? We as pilots should be empowered by all the hiring that is presently taking place to pattern off of each other as much as possible. Taking into consideration that Encore is easily the second largest regional in Canada, at some point Encore will likely have to up pilot pay via contractual gains, especially when comparing the Encore pay to Jazz (and Canadian North/Morningstar ATR compensation deals that were recently signed).

uh no, an airline is an airline. If they valued their pilots they would have RAISED the Q pay, not lowered it.

[AirportCoffee]

Let's not forget that everyone company wide is going from 85 credits/mo to 80. Paycuts for all!

[Latitude]

There's no narrowbody payscale at Air Transat anymore. A321 pilots earn widebody payscale so it is much higher than this. Senior FO tops at 146K and Senior CA at 237K. Hence my guess of 105k-110k for senior FO and 150K senior CA at Porter. I was completely off with the CA rate. 190K is pretty good.

Hi there,

Just looking for confirmation, the widebody pay if one is CCQ'ed as per LOA #7 is for the A321 LR only? Does TRZ still have any other versions of the A321 that would translate to a pilot being paid the NB rates as found in LOA #16? Pilotcareercentre shows that TRZ still has some A321-200's. Would these airframes still be paid at NB rates? Or is everyone CCQ'ed, so everyone is receiving the WB rates from LOA #7?

The NB rates were for B737 non CCQed pilots, which only very few were.

Now that the A310 phased out and they got rid of the B737, Transat only flies A321-200 (ceo), A321neoLR, A330-200, A330-300 now, which are all WB rates. An extra(per hour) is paid for A321neoLR transatlantic flights, since it's a narrowbody.

[slob driver]

There's no narrowbody payscale at Air Transat anymore. A321 pilots earn widebody payscale so it is much higher than this. Senior FO tops at 146K and Senior CA at 237K. Hence my guess of 105k-110k for senior FO and 150K senior CA at Porter. I was completely off with the CA rate. 190K is pretty good.

Hi there,

Just looking for confirmation, the widebody pay if one is CCQ'ed as per LOA #7 is for the A321 LR only? Does TRZ still have any other versions of the A321 that would translate to a pilot being paid the NB rates as found in LOA #16? Pilotcareercentre shows that TRZ still has some A321-200's. Would these airframes still be paid at NB rates? Or is everyone CCQ'ed, so everyone is receiving the WB rates from LOA #7?

The NB rates were for B737 non CCQed pilots, which only very few were.

Now that the A310 phased out and they got rid of the B737, Transat only flies A321-200 (ceo), A321neoLR, A330-200, A330-300 now, which are all WB rates. An extra(per hour) is paid for A321neoLR transatlantic flights, since it's a narrowbody.

Perfect. Thanks

[Grey_Wolf]

Let's not forget that everyone company wide is going from 85 credits/mo to 80. Paycuts for all!

Look at the hourly rates, they've increased.

Playing devil's advocate here, but it seems that those cuts *may* motivate those qualified DH8 FO's to take a Captain's spot sooner rather than later. Plus, if all goes to plan, two E2's a month, for 15 months; there will be opportunities to advance, as Porter is honoring the Master Seniority List. The cut will be offset by the upgrade on type or picking up some OT. (For example: Yr 3 FO to Yr 1CA on DH8, from 54K to 81K; or the transfer to another type FO DH8 to E2, Yr 3 DH8 54K to E2 61K)

[Latitude]

When is Porter receiving their first E195 ?

[indieadventurer]

Is there a max days worked per month for the EMB?

What is the Q max days/month currently?

[slob driver]

Let's do the math ...

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

.....

It seems that Porter management might actually value their pilots, unlike Lynx, or Swoop. Those payrates are disgraceful. It is not surprising that Swoop has had their DEC post up for a substantial amount of time. Likely this is as a result of very little interest in working for Swoop.
I have hope that the Porter rates show that we are beginning to see an arms race heat up for pilot attraction and retention. If Porter can afford these rates for an EMB-195, what about WJ/WSW for 737's? I cannot imagine parity between the two would break the WJ/Onex piggy bank. What can Encore afford to pay their pilots in light of the latest AC vacancy bid and subsequent Jazz hiring? We as pilots should be empowered by all the hiring that is presently taking place to pattern off of each other as much as possible. Taking into consideration that Encore is easily the second largest regional in Canada, at some point Encore will likely have to up pilot pay via contractual gains, especially when comparing the Encore pay to Jazz (and Canadian North/Morningstar ATR compensation deals that were recently signed).

uh no, an airline is an airline. If they valued their pilots they would have RAISED the Q pay, not lowered it.

I didn’t say “like”or “love”their pilots. I said “value” their pilots, specifically the EMB pilots, like a factory “values” widgets. ‘Cause that’s all a pilot is-a widget that is part of the asm-producing machine. And right now, there’s a shortage of that particular widget:). Maybe Porter doesn’t “value” the q400 widget as much right now. Maybe in the future they will when AC starts to steal those widgets for their asm producing machine