A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

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CanadaAir
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

As in the past, Exchange Income Corp claims there's a big pilot shortage and no pilots available to fly their aircraft, yet they are still posting job ads to hire pilots for ground positions.

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CanadaAir
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

Other pilots are getting paid 100% rate for deadhead/repositioning time.

First Officers start getting Captain pay at 750 hours with the company.

150% pay on Halloween and the Super Bowl.

4 paid hotel nights per month for commuters.

Minimum 12 hours notice of a flight while on Reserve.


Almost forgot the $100k welcome Bonus. ( Couldn't find their training bond. They pay you. You don't pay them)


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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by RippleRock »

photofly wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:12 pm
twa22 wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:58 pm You're pathetic, stop excusing shit pay just because a lot of people want to be pilots but people don't want to work in trades.
If it was a difficult skill then more people would get turned away during training, and starting salaries would be higher. There's nothing personal about it. Pilot training is based on having enough cash, and pilot advancement is based on perseverance, being in the right place at the right time, knowing the right people, and sticking it out longer than everyone else. Ability has little to do with it at any stage, so I can't see how anyone can claim that it's a skill beyond most people; pretty much anyone who can stick it out long enough can be a pilot.
Sounds like another Accountant blabbing, or a rampie.

There is no way you fly commercially. You would never say that because you would know.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

The first post showed entry level salaries for other professions.
Here are some salaries for experienced professionals.

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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

,

Are pilots professionals? Or only comparable to fast food workers, garbage truck drivers and meter readers?

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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

'
If you fly Medevac for ORNGE, here are the rates of some of your experienced paramedics.

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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by photofly »

Is it your contention that the PIC must necessarily be the highest paid person board?
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by Bede »

A couple of my friends are on that list (ORNGE & OPG). They are well paid, but they do a lot of overtime.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by JHR »

photofly wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:20 pm Is it your contention that the PIC must necessarily be the highest paid person board?
100%
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by Aspiredtofly »

Instead of always ranting about the compensation in every thread why not force them to implement better pay scales. Stop flying if you think your not being paid well.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by digits_ »

JHR wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:09 pm
photofly wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:20 pm Is it your contention that the PIC must necessarily be the highest paid person board?
100%
Better not fly corporate jets then ;)
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by JHR »

digits_ wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:54 pm
JHR wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:09 pm
photofly wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:20 pm Is it your contention that the PIC must necessarily be the highest paid person board?
100%
Better not fly corporate jets then ;)
I guess I will stay on the 152 then
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

Aspiredtofly wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:12 pm Instead of always ranting about the compensation in every thread why not force them to implement better pay scales. Stop flying if you think your not being paid well.

This thread isn’t about complaining.

There are many pilots working to improve wages and working conditions, beyond what is being posted here.

All pilots are encouraged to work together on this. It means getting active with your union, informing other pilots of the potential gains which can be made, educating your management on the benefits of improved safety, wages and working conditions and convincing managers that the solutions (discussed above) are rather simple to implement.

If pilots are aware of what others are achieving in their negotiations, including in the US, then pilots can be more confident on what terms are acceptable in future contracts.

Pilot groups must put in the effort to learn about what’s being done successfully elsewhere and not ratify subpar conditions.
The recent Captain increases at Porter are only the start, wait till you see what WJ is pushing for.

Instead of blaming each other, pilots need to work together across groups and different bases, with pilots at other companies and in different unions. Talk to pilots from the US and other provinces.

Even if pilots were paid less when they did the same flying up north or on the old machine, don't try to push down pilots who are trying to make gains.

All pilot increases push up the industry as a whole. If a junior pilot is paid more to fly it will support the weathered senior pilots in higher pay.

Even if you are about to move on to another company, still get involved and try to make the place you were at better for the next pilots.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

Noticed that several companies are paying well under the current per diem rates
These are the rates set by the federal government.

That's a minimum of $102.45 per day. Per diems are paid per day, some pilots are still accepting hourly per diems and based on flight hour, which is very low.

Use these tables for your negotiations so the the companies pay the minimum government set rate.



If you go to the US, your per diem is paid in US dollars.

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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

This was posted on CBC


Pay pilots better or risk further northern Manitoba court delays, union says


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitob ... 1.6756270

Low wages are the source of a pilot shortage contributing to delays in Manitoba's circuit court system, according to the union that represents them.

Flights taken by circuit court staff to 22 remote Manitoba communities from Winnipeg have been cancelled repeatedly in the past number of months, according to several lawyers CBC News has spoken with, as well as the province's chief judge, Margaret Wiebe.

Both the company and the provincial government have chalked the problem up to a global pilot shortage, but Tim Perry, a working pilot for WestJet and the president of the Air Line Pilots Association Canada, says that's not quite it.

"Characterizing the pilot supply issue today as a global pilot shortage is either a considerable oversimplification or a plain mischaracterization," he said in an interview on Friday.

"What we really have is job offers that are not competitive right now. Pilots are choosing career paths that are better paid."



Take a read of the full article.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

From a poster in another thread, Canadian pilots are being approved for flying jobs in the US:


"The NIW approvals are rolling in. I know of 9 pilots from a variety of Canadian airlines who have been approved!
Now is the time if you are serious about it!!"
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by digits_ »

CanadaAir wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:30 am Noticed that several companies are paying well under the current per diem rates
These are the rates set by the federal government.

That's a minimum of $102.45 per day.
Wrong. They are the *maximum* set by the government to get them tax-free. You can get more, but then you'll be taxed on them.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by CanadaAir »

digits_ wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:23 am
CanadaAir wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:30 am Noticed that several companies are paying well under the current per diem rates
These are the rates set by the federal government.

That's a minimum of $102.45 per day.
Wrong. They are the *maximum* set by the government to get them tax-free. You can get more, but then you'll be taxed on them.

Yep.

The problem is several companies are still paying $3 per hour, which after 4 hours of flying is only $12 and not enough for a decent meal excluding fast food joints. Food prices have gone up with inflation. While flying a healthy meal plus the taxes can easily cost $30 or more.
$3/hour or $4/ hour per diems are not enough to cover that.

Some pilots are packing their own meals, but this can only last for a few meals not multi day pairings.

In the older agreements meals were required to be boarded for pilots, even at the small regional carriers flying up north. Today, too often pilots are eating the trashy passenger snacks as a source of food.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by digits_ »

CanadaAir wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:17 am
digits_ wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:23 am
CanadaAir wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:30 am Noticed that several companies are paying well under the current per diem rates
These are the rates set by the federal government.

That's a minimum of $102.45 per day.
Wrong. They are the *maximum* set by the government to get them tax-free. You can get more, but then you'll be taxed on them.

Yep.

The problem is several companies are still paying $3 per hour, which after 4 hours of flying is only $12 and not enough for a decent meal excluding fast food joints. Food prices have gone up with inflation. While flying a healthy meal plus the taxes can easily cost $30 or more.
$3/hour or $4/ hour per diems are not enough to cover that.

Some pilots are packing their own meals, but this can only last for a few meals not multi day pairings.

In the older agreements meals were required to be boarded for pilots, even at the small regional carriers flying up north. Today, too often pilots are eating the trashy passenger snacks as a source of food.
Also note that per diems are not supposed to cover the full cost of the food. They are supposed to cover the extra cost of being on the road vs the cost of your food at home.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by rookiepilot »

How many of you have PERSONALLY called your MP and lobbied for the end of TFW’s? Written letters?

I am not in the industry and so will get trolled for this, but get off your collective a$$ and write letters and make calls. Loudly. Demonstrate at Queens Park or on Parliament Hill.

Its so wrong.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by Aspiredtofly »

CanadaAir wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:23 am
Aspiredtofly wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:12 pm Instead of always ranting about the compensation in every thread why not force them to implement better pay scales. Stop flying if you think your not being paid well.

This thread isn’t about complaining.

There are many pilots working to improve wages and working conditions, beyond what is being posted here.

All pilots are encouraged to work together on this. It means getting active with your union, informing other pilots of the potential gains which can be made, educating your management on the benefits of improved safety, wages and working conditions and convincing managers that the solutions (discussed above) are rather simple to implement.

If pilots are aware of what others are achieving in their negotiations, including in the US, then pilots can be more confident on what terms are acceptable in future contracts.

Pilot groups must put in the effort to learn about what’s being done successfully elsewhere and not ratify subpar conditions.
The recent Captain increases at Porter are only the start, wait till you see what WJ is pushing for.

Instead of blaming each other, pilots need to work together across groups and different bases, with pilots at other companies and in different unions. Talk to pilots from the US and other provinces.

Even if pilots were paid less when they did the same flying up north or on the old machine, don't try to push down pilots who are trying to make gains.

All pilot increases push up the industry as a whole. If a junior pilot is paid more to fly it will support the weathered senior pilots in higher pay.

Even if you are about to move on to another company, still get involved and try to make the place you were at better for the next pilots.
I'm saying this because I have infact seen many threads that relates to what pilots are going through right now. I understand this absolutely, but the question is when will it change?.. With inflation touching new heights(bought one couliflower for $6.32). I'm surprised how you guys aren't outraged by your employers and soo called unions who you pay $1000+ each year. If the issue has to do with wawcons, then I hear very few pilots talk about it irl near me. It's good that people are waking up, but it's not enough. Look at the hypocrisy, when FedEx and American air pilots have the ability to take to the streets if their contract isn't negotiated for a year regardless of them being highly paid throughout the country and yes their unions do listen to them. But for us after almost an eternity we get a small pay raise and most of the benefits taken out(DB pension plan and that stupid freeze pay for 1-4 years). I can go on with more but who cares if the management doesn't we can talk as much as we want but still no response.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by rookiepilot »

photofly wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:20 pm Is it your contention that the PIC must necessarily be the highest paid person board?
This is exactly what some here seem to think.

That a 250 hour new FO should be paid more than a doctor with a pile of degrees and years in Med school.

It's offensive. I don't care if those exact words were used, the attitude comes across loud and clear.

MOD's -- I suggest these employment compensation threads be moved where they belong -- to the right sub-forum. Or create a new one, alongside Covid.

Let's talk airplanes and aviation here.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by digits_ »

rookiepilot wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:00 am
photofly wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:20 pm Is it your contention that the PIC must necessarily be the highest paid person board?
This is exactly what some here seem to think.

That a 250 hour new FO should be paid more than a doctor with a pile of degrees and years in Med school.
Nobody is saying that here.

You're quoting a question about the PIC and posting a reply about FO wages.

By definition, the FO is not PIC.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by rookiepilot »

digits_ wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:25 am
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:00 am
photofly wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:20 pm Is it your contention that the PIC must necessarily be the highest paid person board?
This is exactly what some here seem to think.

That a 250 hour new FO should be paid more than a doctor with a pile of degrees and years in Med school.
Nobody is saying that here.

You're quoting a question about the PIC and posting a reply about FO wages.

By definition, the FO is not PIC.
OK.

The new PIC of a clapped out Dash 8 flying a surgeon from Montreal to Toronto should make more than the surgeon?

I dare you to tell any doctor that to his face.

These threads have gone totally stupid. You've lost me.
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Re: A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

Post by Tbayer2021 »

rookiepilot wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:38 am
digits_ wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:25 am
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:00 am

This is exactly what some here seem to think.

That a 250 hour new FO should be paid more than a doctor with a pile of degrees and years in Med school.
Nobody is saying that here.

You're quoting a question about the PIC and posting a reply about FO wages.

By definition, the FO is not PIC.
OK.

The new PIC of a clapped out Dash 8 flying a surgeon from Montreal to Toronto should make more than the surgeon?

I dare you to tell any doctor that to his face.

These threads have gone totally stupid. You've lost me.

Rookie, are you actually this dense? Employee on board!!!!!!! not that the pilot should make more than any possible passenger in the back. Jesus, you can't be this stupid.
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