Our turn to strike ?

[QKZXKV]

It's a very interesting scene to observe tbh. The return to basically being Air Ontario as far as the routes and staffing is concerned is a very interesting chicken/egg situation.

Other than horrible pay, large deductions, and working conditions that are decimating morale, is the axe to the western flying increasing the staffing crunch or is the staffing crunch really creating the issues for a lot of the flying as they say?

I'd say they've made this a lot worse when AC decided to jettison all the western routes. Why would anyone out west want to stay and be an Air Ontario pilot in those conditions when there's options? We're seeing evidence that most aren't.

[canadian_aviator_4]

It's a very interesting scene to observe tbh. The return to basically being Air Ontario as far as the routes and staffing is concerned is a very interesting chicken/egg situation.

Other than horrible pay, large deductions, and working conditions that are decimating morale, is the axe to the western flying increasing the staffing crunch or is the staffing crunch really creating the issues for a lot of the flying as they say?

I'd say they've made this a lot worse when AC decided to jettison all the western routes. Why would anyone out west want to stay and be an Air Ontario pilot in those conditions when there's options? We're seeing evidence that most aren't.

The real question is why would anyone stay….. unless they have built up a number of years on their pension.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Yes totally, I know couple Embraer trainer/ACP went to Porter. And I don't blame them, not only their pay is much higher. Year 1 CA starting at $150,000(with trainer pay will be more), with only $100 a month deduction on health benefits. They are dying to have anyone that has Embraer experience and training experience. And Jazz is the biggest hiring pool. Now with Porter opening YUL base....Jazz might loose even more Embraer guys to Porter.

They can have the biggest hiring pool at Jazz but the training department can never catch up though. And if AC is not fulfilling their side of promise, what Jazz have done so far? It's been how many month now?

Well when our trainers are leaving because everyone has signaled Jazz is a sinking ship, this is the result. We are losing more pilots to everywhere else than AC right now. All because they don't want to fix pay or deal with the issue or follow their own agreement.

Especially if they were at sky regional. The amount of more senior jazz pilots coming over to the E1 would basically put you mid pack on the seniority list for your base/position. Jazz refuses to benchmark to other airlines with similar work/aircraft. And until they do….I expect high attrition rates. I think the MEC is trying, but it’s blood from a stone.

[RILEY]

From the union whenever you approach them regarding flow, be it the mec, lec chairs or anyone else involved they don’t seem to have much urgency towards resolving the flow issue. They indicate a grievance was filed, but don’t know much else. The company is the exact same, indicating Air Canada is hiring jazz pilots, and not much more.

So there is a lot of frustration over the appearance of a lack of concern, along with no communication regarding flow. And subsequent emails from the mec indicating that jazz has an uncertain future.

A petition mentioned earlier would at least capture the attention of leadership, both from union and company standpoint, to possibly give us more answers and push for more urgency. Another idea is for anyone unhappy here to approach company and union leadership and requesting more information regarding the flow issue. I have done this many times already.

Unfortunately in the end it may be quicker to take advantage of the ‘Jazz-Westjet flow program’.

Consensus I’ve gathered from the line suggests the grievance will be dropped and the flow rate will be modified to a lower percentage to support wage increases. The survey showed a majority favouring this approach and it’s just a matter of how much the company is willing to pay, currently not enough.

This is obviously flawed but the senior guys don’t care about flow and that’s our MEC. The last guy I flew with really wanted a new boat.

None of this is 100% verified except the boat part.

You know, most of us senior guys have been in this business over 30 years, of course we want a new boat or new….
The flow was what brought you here, since it’s not happening, why not leave! I hear WJ is hiring
I 110% support reduced flow for more money but our(senior guy) wages have been suppressed and falling behind inflation so, damn straight we want a piece of the action!

Wake up - you really think anyone would come to Jazz without the flow? Flow is the only reason Jazz is still afloat. Are you going to operate an 80-aircraft CPA with the 30% of the pilots who are in the top third of seniority and top of the pay scale? Because that's who all would be left if flow was axed.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Consensus I’ve gathered from the line suggests the grievance will be dropped and the flow rate will be modified to a lower percentage to support wage increases. The survey showed a majority favouring this approach and it’s just a matter of how much the company is willing to pay, currently not enough.

This is obviously flawed but the senior guys don’t care about flow and that’s our MEC. The last guy I flew with really wanted a new boat.

None of this is 100% verified except the boat part.

You know, most of us senior guys have been in this business over 30 years, of course we want a new boat or new….
The flow was what brought you here, since it’s not happening, why not leave! I hear WJ is hiring
I 110% support reduced flow for more money but our(senior guy) wages have been suppressed and falling behind inflation so, damn straight we want a piece of the action!

Wake up - you really think anyone would come to Jazz without the flow? Flow is the only reason Jazz is still afloat. Are you going to operate an 80-aircraft CPA with the 30% of the pilots who are in the top third of seniority and top of the pay scale? Because that's who all would be left if flow was axed.

Good luck as well trying to increase pay. That went well for jazz the last time, then suddenly sky regional appeared. Now you have PAL to do the exact same thing. I hope this is not the case and big raises actually do materialize at jazz.

[truedude]

You know, most of us senior guys have been in this business over 30 years, of course we want a new boat or new….
The flow was what brought you here, since it’s not happening, why not leave! I hear WJ is hiring
I 110% support reduced flow for more money but our(senior guy) wages have been suppressed and falling behind inflation so, damn straight we want a piece of the action!

Wake up - you really think anyone would come to Jazz without the flow? Flow is the only reason Jazz is still afloat. Are you going to operate an 80-aircraft CPA with the 30% of the pilots who are in the top third of seniority and top of the pay scale? Because that's who all would be left if flow was axed.

Good luck as well trying to increase pay. That went well for jazz the last time, then suddenly sky regional appeared. Now you have PAL to do the exact same thing. I hope this is not the case and big raises actually do materialize at jazz.

Except unlike last time, they won't be able to staff PAL.

[rudder]

Jazz is feeling the result of high attrition already. Yesterday they had the second highest amount of flight cancellations out of any airline worldwide. The summer will only get worse. Overall the next best thing to do besides striking is to leave. Mostly everyone is.

All of these subjects can be empirically measured.

Resignations. Flight completion rate. Applicant experience level.

I cannot imagine that it paints a very pretty picture. But the fact that nothing has changed at Jazz - nothing - does not bode well for the future.

Other operators appear to be making alternate plans. Many Jazz pilots are making alternate plans.

Time does not stand still.

[QKZXKV]

The resignations are indeed snowballing. Frustrations have boiled over, even with something as simple as the training dept who can't get their **** together. I know of a few upgrades & new hires sitting around doing nothing and aren't able to get in touch with the coordinators to see what gives. I'd furious myself.

That stat about cancellations doesn't seem to phase the people in charge either. They want to hit the big iceberg it seems.

[rudder]

The resignations are indeed snowballing. Frustrations have boiled over, even with something as simple as the training dept who can't get their **** together. I know of a few upgrades & new hires sitting around doing nothing and aren't able to get in touch with the coordinators to see what gives. I'd furious myself.

That stat about cancellations doesn't seem to phase the people in charge either. They want to hit the big iceberg it seems.

“Houston - we have a problem”

What if Houston doesn’t have a clue what to do?