Agreement in principle reached.

[JBI]

Edit: the history of this user shows that they are primarily a troll account so I responded in kind to a troll

My 12 years old could figure this one.

Wait, YOU'VE procreated? I mean congrats, but wow, that's the most disturbing part of your barely coherent post. If Forrest Gump's kid can be smart, maybe there is hope for your offspring too...

[goingnowherefast]

My 12 years old could figure this one.

Wait, YOU'VE procreated? I mean congrats, but wow, that's the most disturbing part of your barely coherent post. If Forrest Gump's kid can be smart, maybe there is hope for your offspring too...

Cause this contributes to the conversation
Insulting someone's intelligence and their kid has so much to do with Encore's AIP. I'm all good for a thread derailment, but that was unnecessary and rude. Even for avcanada.

[ShillBill]

My 12 years old could figure this one.

Wait, YOU'VE procreated? I mean congrats, but wow, that's the most disturbing part of your barely coherent post. If Forrest Gump's kid can be smart, maybe there is hope for your offspring too...

It's probably incoherent for you because you only speak shill

Time for pilots in this industry to grow a pair. We are already a laughing stock

Crazy to see fellow pilots push the fear narrative when there has NEVER been a better time for hope

[cdnavater]

My 12 years old could figure this one.

Wait, YOU'VE procreated? I mean congrats, but wow, that's the most disturbing part of your barely coherent post. If Forrest Gump's kid can be smart, maybe there is hope for your offspring too...

It's probably incoherent for you because you only speak shill

Time for pilots in this industry to grow a pair. We are already a laughing stock

Crazy to see fellow pilots push the fear narrative when there has NEVER been a better time for hope

I didn’t see it as a fear narrative but a well reasoned argument for caution, assuming the risk is not there is naive at best, at worst just ignoring key facts.
I asked the question, no one cared to answer, is there anything in the WJ or Encore agreement that says Encore is the only tier 2 lift provider or a limit on outsourcing the work?
Fact is Encore is much smaller than it was and in a much riskier position for being shutdown, much smaller disruption than in its full glory, pretty close to the same size of the Q400 operations already shutdown by the current CEO. Thinking it’s a bluff would be a mistake, if in fact this was threatened. They could be prepared to let them strike indefinitely and take the disruption, add 737 sectors to cover and increase lift through others.
Two things will happen, either Encore pilots vote no and they come back with more or they call their bluff and let them strike. I guess a third option is the Encore pilots accept the current offer and they keep on going until the next contract.

Edit; to add, Encore pilots need to be prepared to shut it down, in 2010 when Jazz pilots voted with a high percentage, I literally said, “I’m willing to burn it to the ground”
If your not will to start over, you might might to think about what voting no means, again, not fear mongering just reality

[unionism101]

Wait, YOU'VE procreated? I mean congrats, but wow, that's the most disturbing part of your barely coherent post. If Forrest Gump's kid can be smart, maybe there is hope for your offspring too...

It's probably incoherent for you because you only speak shill

Time for pilots in this industry to grow a pair. We are already a laughing stock

Crazy to see fellow pilots push the fear narrative when there has NEVER been a better time for hope

I didn’t see it as a fear narrative but a well reasoned argument for caution, assuming the risk is not there is naive at best, at worst just ignoring key facts.
I asked the question, no one cared to answer, is there anything in the WJ or Encore agreement that says Encore is the only tier 2 lift provider or a limit on outsourcing the work?
Fact is Encore is much smaller than it was and in a much riskier position for being shutdown, much smaller disruption than in its full glory, pretty close to the same size of the Q400 operations already shutdown by the current CEO. Thinking it’s a bluff would be a mistake, if in fact this was threatened. They could be prepared to let them strike indefinitely and take the disruption, add 737 sectors to cover and increase lift through others.
Two things will happen, either Encore pilots vote no and they come back with more or they call their bluff and let them strike. I guess a third option is the Encore pilots accept the current offer and they keep on going until the next contract.

Edit; to add, Encore pilots need to be prepared to shut it down, in 2010 when Jazz pilots voted with a high percentage, I literally said, “I’m willing to burn it to the ground”
If your not will to start over, you might might to think about what voting no means, again, not fear mongering just reality

This post sums up why WJ Encore will NEVER get a proper contract and it affects ALL pilots in Canada

Pilots should NEVER worry about "capturing" flying or that they are "too expensive" so they will shut down an operation

This is such a primitive & basic threat and if this profession can't be wise enough to see through it, then pilots will get what they deserve.

Auto workers were able to see through it but pilots are just too stupid I guess

The 50% deadhead credit is pretty symbolic of this whole country because we are operate at least 50% pay to what we deserve

We do 100% the same work as our US Colleagues at 50% compensation. Just overall a huge embarrassment. They got that by not falling for the fear rhetoric. Full stop

[GetAGripen]

The only criticism I'll make of your post above is regarding your comment about the pilots hired after the PTA was cancelled. What exactly do you feel should be given in return for it? As far as a know, everyone hired after the PTA was cancelled knew exactly what they were being hired into. I think the recruiting team was very careful to not make promises they couldn't keep. I fail to see how coming into a situation where the seniority situation is clearly laid out that there is somehow additional items owed to those folks because there are pilots who were hired when the PTA was still in force. If I'm missing something, honestly let me know, I haven't been at Encore since the PTA cancellation.

First, I appreciate your overall take and response on this. Interesting stuff. I'll clarify for some of the responses my thought on the 'bluff' is just that it's probably not the company's best offer; not a bluff to shut the company down. Though by the sounds of it, it could certainly be a possibility.

As for my take on the PTA, that's absolutely fair critique. We do know coming in it's not there, and I joined knowing that, and accepting that I'm not going to be married to the company. My hope was that with the PTA being eliminated is that maybe this contract would do more to try and keep us here. We fly with CAs every day(well maybe once a week at this point) that will have their seniority carried over and that's generally the reason why they've even bothered staying that long. We don't have that advantage. Now; I'm not going to pretend like I fully understand why the PTA even existed in the first place and why it's gone and the complex history of Encore, but: it's just one less reason to stay, and this new TA hasn't really made career progression at WestJet any more appealing.

I would have liked to see better communication and transparency from the company and MEC through this whole process. I want to see the math, I want to know what's impossible for the company. But I don't know how to run an airline or how the negotiations work behind closed doors, so like most everyone else I feel like this is a kinda shit deal without it being spelled out for me. When they're coming out and laying this on the table saying it's a great contract when on paper it's not hitting key points I think the backlash is justified.

[cdnavater]

It's probably incoherent for you because you only speak shill

Time for pilots in this industry to grow a pair. We are already a laughing stock

Crazy to see fellow pilots push the fear narrative when there has NEVER been a better time for hope

I didn’t see it as a fear narrative but a well reasoned argument for caution, assuming the risk is not there is naive at best, at worst just ignoring key facts.
I asked the question, no one cared to answer, is there anything in the WJ or Encore agreement that says Encore is the only tier 2 lift provider or a limit on outsourcing the work?
Fact is Encore is much smaller than it was and in a much riskier position for being shutdown, much smaller disruption than in its full glory, pretty close to the same size of the Q400 operations already shutdown by the current CEO. Thinking it’s a bluff would be a mistake, if in fact this was threatened. They could be prepared to let them strike indefinitely and take the disruption, add 737 sectors to cover and increase lift through others.
Two things will happen, either Encore pilots vote no and they come back with more or they call their bluff and let them strike. I guess a third option is the Encore pilots accept the current offer and they keep on going until the next contract.

Edit; to add, Encore pilots need to be prepared to shut it down, in 2010 when Jazz pilots voted with a high percentage, I literally said, “I’m willing to burn it to the ground”
If your not will to start over, you might might to think about what voting no means, again, not fear mongering just reality

This post sums up why WJ Encore will NEVER get a proper contract and it affects ALL pilots in Canada

Pilots should NEVER worry about "capturing" flying or that they are "too expensive" so they will shut down an operation

This is such a primitive & basic threat and if this profession can't be wise enough to see through it, then pilots will get what they deserve.

Auto workers were able to see through it but pilots are just too stupid I guess

The 50% deadhead credit is pretty symbolic of this whole country because we are operate at least 50% pay to what we deserve

We do 100% the same work as our US Colleagues at 50% compensation. Just overall a huge embarrassment. They got that by not falling for the fear rhetoric. Full stop

Nope, you’re cherry picking, my post is more about being mentally prepared for that possibility, be prepared to be on strike a lot longer than you may anticipate and possibly to the point they cut their losses. The company may have a plan that involves you going on strike, actually they do have a plan for that but it may be more like they kind of hope you do.
To be clear, I am pro union, quite so, grew up with it and I would totally send a message but be prepared for the corresponding message back. Maybe, maybe not but don’t go in thinking that you’re too big or important to fail, that could bite you in the bum.
Not being in the company, I would not advise one way or the other, I have nothing to lose.

[HFNav]

To be clear, I am pro union, quite so, grew up with it and I would totally send a message but be prepared for the corresponding message back. Maybe, maybe not but don’t go in thinking that you’re too big or important to fail, that could bite you in the bum.
Not being in the company, I would not advise one way or the other, I have nothing to lose.

If this was Jazz?
If AC allowed Jazz to negotiate and the Encore TA was what the Jazz MEC advised
With Jazz matching Porter rates & the above TA

What would be your stance as a Jazz pilot? Would it be enough, or would you expect higher rates & conditions?

[A310Heavy]

50% to US pilots seems to be the accepted rate now for Canadian regional pilots

Jazz signed a 17 yrs deal out of fear & WJ is now going to sign a joke of a 4 yrs deal

Enjoy being the laughing stock of North American aviation my friends. Make sure to chat with a US pilot on a layover and tell them your t4. Be good for a "Just for Laughs" episode

Then tell them you voted yes in fear because a Canadian airline was going to shutdown with "only" 50% PLUS labor cost advantage...LOL

[FelixGustof]

Canadian pilots scared their operations will be shutdown as the sweatshop of pilots...

LMAO

[cdnavater]

To be clear, I am pro union, quite so, grew up with it and I would totally send a message but be prepared for the corresponding message back. Maybe, maybe not but don’t go in thinking that you’re too big or important to fail, that could bite you in the bum.
Not being in the company, I would not advise one way or the other, I have nothing to lose.

If this was Jazz?
If AC allowed Jazz to negotiate and the Encore TA was what the Jazz MEC advised
With Jazz matching Porter rates & the above TA

What would be your stance as a Jazz pilot? Would it be enough, or would you expect higher rates & conditions?

To answer your question honestly, my risk tolerance for starting over is pretty low, I would prefer not to strike but would still support the majority.
However, as A310heavy below you indicated, we have a long term agreement with no strike clause incorporated, for all intents it was absolutely agreed to out of fear and if he thinks AC would not have held true to their promise to continue shrinking us to oblivion, smarter people in the room knew better.

[cdnavater]

50% to US pilots seems to be the accepted rate now for Canadian regional pilots

Jazz signed a 17 yrs deal out of fear & WJ is now going to sign a joke of a 4 yrs deal

Enjoy being the laughing stock of North American aviation my friends. Make sure to chat with a US pilot on a layover and tell them your t4. Be good for a "Just for Laughs" episode

Then tell them you voted yes in fear because a Canadian airline was going to shutdown with "only" 50% PLUS labor cost advantage...LOL

As your handle indicates, you work for Air Transat, not sure you want to be throwing stones

[A310Heavy]

50% to US pilots seems to be the accepted rate now for Canadian regional pilots

Jazz signed a 17 yrs deal out of fear & WJ is now going to sign a joke of a 4 yrs deal

Enjoy being the laughing stock of North American aviation my friends. Make sure to chat with a US pilot on a layover and tell them your t4. Be good for a "Just for Laughs" episode

Then tell them you voted yes in fear because a Canadian airline was going to shutdown with "only" 50% PLUS labor cost advantage...LOL

As your handle indicates, you work for Air Transat, not sure you want to be throwing stones

LOL...we suck too make no mistake

[Kennythegreat]

50% to US pilots seems to be the accepted rate now for Canadian regional pilots

Jazz signed a 17 yrs deal out of fear & WJ is now going to sign a joke of a 4 yrs deal

Enjoy being the laughing stock of North American aviation my friends. Make sure to chat with a US pilot on a layover and tell them your t4. Be good for a "Just for Laughs" episode

Then tell them you voted yes in fear because a Canadian airline was going to shutdown with "only" 50% PLUS labor cost advantage...LOL

As your handle indicates, you work for Air Transat, not sure you want to be throwing stones

LOL...we suck too make no mistake

It will take a collective of Canadian pilots to stop being pussies to fix this industry

[HFNav]

If this was Jazz?
If AC allowed Jazz to negotiate and the Encore TA was what the Jazz MEC advised
With Jazz matching Porter rates & the above TA

What would be your stance as a Jazz pilot? Would it be enough, or would you expect higher rates & conditions?

To answer your question honestly, my risk tolerance for starting over is pretty low, I would prefer not to strike but would still support the majority.

+1 for the honest response

There're Jazz routes AC relies on & Encore routes WJ can't do

WJ tried 737 on these routes & they cut them

The Q400 & CRJ have markets, which large aircraft can't

The senior regional pilots @ Jazz & Encore are required

At the moment, captains are in demand & WJ laying them off to others would be a loss of skill WJ requires
Captains are protected from voting no, Encore requires these captains to operate the routes WJ can't
Captains who want permanent Encore careers have the most to gain from a no vote

Q400 skills are in demand
AC's hiring Encore pilots who leave

Porter
$25,000 Sign On Bonus being offered for current Dash 8-Q400 Type Rated Captains - until January 31st, 2024.
Be recognized for your current Years-of-Service (in position) operating the Dash 8-400 at other carriers

[dontcallmeshirley]

Porter
$25,000 Sign On Bonus being offered for current Dash 8-Q400 Type Rated Captains - until January 31st, 2024.

The offer has been extended until May 31.

[joefo]

Porter
$25,000 Sign On Bonus being offered for current Dash 8-Q400 Type Rated Captains - until January 31st, 2024.

The offer has been extended until May 31.

Out of pure curiosity, what is keeping yourself and other YYZ skippers at Encore with the base closing and 0% chance of flow before that? WJ has made it very clear they don’t give a damn about Encore pilots career progression so why not take Porter up on their 25k bonus or get into the right seat on the jet?

Edit: to be clear I’m not criticizing your decisions or reasons for staying, from an outside perspective I’m just curious.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Out of pure curiosity, what is keeping yourself and other YYZ skippers at Encore with the base closing and 0% chance of flow before that? WJ has made it very clear they don’t give a damn about Encore pilots career progression so why not take Porter up on their 25k bonus or get into the right seat on the jet?

Edit: to be clear I’m not criticizing your decisions or reasons for staying, from an outside perspective I’m just curious.

Nothing is keeping me here. I'm already in the process of trying to get out.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Out of pure curiosity, what is keeping yourself and other YYZ skippers at Encore with the base closing and 0% chance of flow before that? WJ has made it very clear they don’t give a damn about Encore pilots career progression so why not take Porter up on their 25k bonus or get into the right seat on the jet?

Edit: to be clear I’m not criticizing your decisions or reasons for staying, from an outside perspective I’m just curious.

Nothing is keeping me here. I'm already in the process of trying to get out.

You won’t regret it

[flyinhigh]

When does the vote close?

[Transition9er2]

When does the vote close?

Also curious to know what the general sentiment is on line about this now that the road shows has a chance to explain it.

Is the feeling it’ll be approved? Certainly hope it won’t be, but I’ve got no skin in the game so it’s the cheap seats for me.

[dontcallmeshirley]

When does the vote close?

Also curious to know what the general sentiment is on line about this now that the road shows has a chance to explain it.

Is the feeling it’ll be approved? Certainly hope it won’t be, but I’ve got no skin in the game so it’s the cheap seats for me.

Vote closes May 10.

There is a vocal no-group, but there usually is. Chances are it'll pass.

[Flyboy736]

When does the vote close?

Also curious to know what the general sentiment is on line about this now that the road shows has a chance to explain it.

Is the feeling it’ll be approved? Certainly hope it won’t be, but I’ve got no skin in the game so it’s the cheap seats for me.

Vote closes May 10.

There is a vocal no-group, but there usually is. Chances are it'll pass.

To add to this the only time I've ever seen anything get turned down in this industry was the Air Canada ACPA MOA in October 2022. I'd be surprised to see a no but we shall see!

[Stratopaused]

To add to this the only time I've ever seen anything get turned down in this industry was the Air Canada ACPA MOA in October 2022. I'd be surprised to see a no but we shall see!

There was also the Cargojet agreement to try to get an exemption from the new FDT regs that was rejected, and shortly thereafter Unifor was kicked to the curb. Money is usually enough of a motivator to get these contracts approved, but we might be entering a new era where pissed off pilots who want more than just a raise are willing to send a message.

[Canadaflyer46]

Especially when the raise comes with an accompanying reduction in WSP. I hope this gets voted down and the negotiating committee disbanded. What a disgrace this dogshit AIP even made it this far. I have faith the Encore pilots will do the right thing, they have faced years of abuse and hold all the cards right now. I’m just sorry your union representation turned out to be so gutless and let you down. But it’s not too late. Good luck all.