goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:05 pm
None of the news articles and public opinion quotes I've read seem to blame the mechanics. It's all along the lines of "wj needs to be more compassionate". I know the passengers mean wj needs to be more compassionate towards the customers, but it applies to every employee group too, especially the mechanics.
We are very aware and compassionate towards our customers but at the same time....when is a good time for a strike? Any strike, at any time, by any union is always going to affect people. Our strike mandate was still valid.
On the other hand...it's worth noting that after the arbitration rulling was handed down...Westjet never rescinded their lockout notice. Who's to say they would not have locked us out?
I have been an AME for 25 years in just about every sector of Canadian aviation. Left the airlines because of brutal work conditions and lousy pay. I support West jet AMEs 100%. Please do not back down for anything less than Industry leading wages and work conditions. The industry needs us more than we need them. The industry dug this hole to find the bottom and when they did they threw dirt down on top of us. Enough is enough.
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:05 pm
None of the news articles and public opinion quotes I've read seem to blame the mechanics. It's all along the lines of "wj needs to be more compassionate". I know the passengers mean wj needs to be more compassionate towards the customers, but it applies to every employee group too, especially the mechanics.
We are very aware and compassionate towards our customers but at the same time....when is a good time for a strike? Any strike, at any time, by any union is always going to affect people. Our strike mandate was still valid.
On the other hand...it's worth noting that after the arbitration rulling was handed down...Westjet never rescinded their lockout notice. Who's to say they would not have locked us out?
I think you missed my point.
Management needs to be more compassionate towards customers, mechanics, and all employees.
We have NEGOTIATED - not arbitration- a 5 year deal
This means TA2 will be voted on. Don't know details but it sounds like what we wanted we are getting.
From the union:
CENTENNIAL, Colo. – June 30, 2024 – We are grateful and relieved to announce that the AMFA-represented Aircraft Maintenance Engineers and WestJet have successfully negotiated a contract covering the next five years. This will end our lawful strike action against the company, effective immediately.
As a direct result of our members’ solidarity, AMFA was able to reach a second tentative agreement (TA2) providing substantial improvements over both the current terms of employment and the terms provided for in the first tentative agreement.
TA2 provides for immediate pay increases, full restoration of the WestJet Savings Plan (WSP), and improved benefits for the employees.
WestJet’s final concessions were obtained due to three principal factors:
The CIRB’s decision to uphold our right to strike
The exemplary discipline our members demonstrated in implementing that strike
The Union’s commitment to direct all employees back to work immediately now that TA2 has been signed
We have requested that all AMEs return to work immediately so that we can provide the value of their labour that was the primary element in achieving this deal.
AMFA-WJ members in good standing will soon vote to ratify the TA to solidify it as the group’s first collective bargaining agreement. Ratification will render the compulsory arbitration ordered by the Labour Minister unnecessary.
The Union Negotiating Committee is grateful for everyone’s indispensable contribution and support of labour groups across Canada.
We believe this outcome would not have been possible without the strike, but we do regret the disruption and inconvenience it has caused the traveling public over the Canada Day holiday period. The timing was coincidental as the negotiation process did not follow a predictable timeline. We are pleased the strike lasted only 48 hours and that service can now return to normal. We appreciate the support the public has given us as our organization stood up to management on behalf of hardworking Canadians. We appreciate everyone’s patience in the face of cancelled flights and changing plans.
Now it’s time to show the world how we make WestJet fly. Thank you from all of us at AMFA and the WestJet Aircraft Maintenance Engineers we represent.
This entire episode has brought stress and anxiety to your group, but you’ve prevailed and now reap your collective well-deserved benefits.
The tactical ineptitude and epic ball fumbling of the WS C-Suite was on full and embarrassing display throughout, and now as the dust settles, you can hold your heads up high as you’ve demonstrated to labour groups across this country what’s possible with unity.
I guess it IS possible to teach City Hall a lesson after all.
The highlights would be 15% initial raise. Another 10% over the remaining 4 years. OT goes to 1.75 after 8hrs in a pay period. Some premiums added/increased. No reduction in WSP.
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-42 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 4:58 pm
Not enough guys. You should have held out and bled them a bit.
Blah, blah, blah…..hold the line….ask for more while doing less…..cause more to eventually get outsourced….raise prices for your customer……someone doesn’t like it, go somewhere else!!! Get out with your negativity.
Copied from another post, because I couldn't have said it better myself.
People are... "Tired of living in the most expensive cities on the planet eating "shrinkflation sized" boxes of Kraft dinner so the rest of the bills can be paid" ...while watching executives continue to rake in record compensation packages.
But I get it, gotta keep the masses supressed and unable to afford the same product their employer offers so the "justamanager" (corperate overlord) can have his multi-million dollar bonus.
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:44 am
Copied from another post, because I couldn't have said it better myself.
People are... "Tired of living in the most expensive cities on the planet eating "shrinkflation sized" boxes of Kraft dinner so the rest of the bills can be paid" ...while watching executives continue to rake in record compensation packages.
But I get it, gotta keep the masses supressed and unable to afford the same product their employer offers so the "justamanager" (corperate overlord) can have his multi-million dollar bonus.
Then become a manager?!?! Go back to school and get an MBA.
Do 4th line players complain that Connor McDavid gets more ice time and gets paid more? Do they complain ice time and pay should be equal? Do they complain that Connor’s pay increase is too much compared to theirs?
This isn’t communism…..thought your union wants you to think this.
-42 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 4:58 pm
Not enough guys. You should have held out and bled them a bit.
Blah, blah, blah…..hold the line….ask for more while doing less…..cause more to eventually get outsourced….raise prices for your customer……someone doesn’t like it, go somewhere else!!! Get out with your negativity.
-42 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 4:58 pm
Not enough guys. You should have held out and bled them a bit.
Blah, blah, blah…..hold the line….ask for more while doing less…..cause more to eventually get outsourced….raise prices for your customer……someone doesn’t like it, go somewhere else!!! Get out with your negativity.
Your union card is only so ‘thick’.
The only thing thick here is your head.
…..haha, right…..sounds like the truth hurts…..haha
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:44 am
Copied from another post, because I couldn't have said it better myself.
People are... "Tired of living in the most expensive cities on the planet eating "shrinkflation sized" boxes of Kraft dinner so the rest of the bills can be paid" ...while watching executives continue to rake in record compensation packages.
But I get it, gotta keep the masses supressed and unable to afford the same product their employer offers so the "justamanager" (corperate overlord) can have his multi-million dollar bonus.
Then become a manager?!?! Go back to school and get an MBA.
Do 4th line players complain that Connor McDavid gets more ice time and gets paid more? Do they complain ice time and pay should be equal? Do they complain that Connor’s pay increase is too much compared to theirs?
This isn’t communism…..thought your union wants you to think this.
Obviously you're just slow and don't see the flaw in your logic. Everyone can't be a manager. Someone has to use a wrench, planes don't get fixed with a hangar full of managers sitting at their desks.
Henry Ford figured it out. If a product is supposed to be for the masses, make sure your employees are sufficiently compensated to be your own customer. That's why Ford paid factory workers enough to afford a Model T. I guess this is too advanced for WJ management.
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:44 am
Copied from another post, because I couldn't have said it better myself.
People are... "Tired of living in the most expensive cities on the planet eating "shrinkflation sized" boxes of Kraft dinner so the rest of the bills can be paid" ...while watching executives continue to rake in record compensation packages.
But I get it, gotta keep the masses supressed and unable to afford the same product their employer offers so the "justamanager" (corperate overlord) can have his multi-million dollar bonus.
Then become a manager?!?! Go back to school and get an MBA.
Do 4th line players complain that Connor McDavid gets more ice time and gets paid more? Do they complain ice time and pay should be equal? Do they complain that Connor’s pay increase is too much compared to theirs?
This isn’t communism…..thought your union wants you to think this.
Obviously you're just slow and don't see the flaw in your logic. Everyone can't be a manager. Someone has to use a wrench, planes don't get fixed with a hangar full of managers sitting at their desks.
Henry Ford figured it out. If a product is supposed to be for the masses, make sure your employees are sufficiently compensated to be your own customer. That's why Ford paid factory workers enough to afford a Model T. I guess this is too advanced for WJ management.
Haha. Thanks for the support on my point. Guess I’m not alone on this site. You are correct. The Oilers only have so much cap space to pay out and not everyone can get Connor pay……the 4th line guy understands he can’t get what Connor makes. If he doesn’t like it, he goes to the open market and sees his true worth, if anymore. Advice for the WJ rivet bangers and wrench turns….head to the open market if you think you deserve more.
Did you just agree with a quote from yourself? I enjoy a good conversation with myself as much as the next guy, but I don't do it on the internet.
justapassenger wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 5:07 pmAdvice for the WJ rivet bangers and wrench turns….head to the open market if you think you deserve more.
And mechanics are (were?) heading to the open market. The laundry list of MELs is only getting longer. Long sectors flown at FL250 in a 737. Definitely sounds like an overstaffed department that isn't suffering from retention and recruitment issues
Just too short sighted and stubborn to see the issues is all. Needed a real union to force management to address their problems.
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 5:20 pm
Did you just agree with a quote from yourself? I enjoy a good conversation with myself as much as the next guy, but I don't do it on the internet.
justapassenger wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 5:07 pmAdvice for the WJ rivet bangers and wrench turns….head to the open market if you think you deserve more.
And mechanics are (were?) heading to the open market. The laundry list of MELs is only getting longer. Long sectors flown at FL250 in a 737. Definitely sounds like an overstaffed department that isn't suffering from retention and recruitment issues
Just too short sighted and stubborn to see the issues is all. Needed a real union to force management to address their problems.
Love your thinking AGAIN! Thank you!! You don’t like it, leave. Doors not locked. AMEs are still applying, planes will keep flying…..I promise. Just like the 4th liner wanting first line pay…..go test the open market! Love how you agree with me!! Thank you!
I do believe “mismanagement” is how this all started. Airlines need Engineers to fix airplanes and Pilots to fly them. Back in the day that’s all there was literally. Managers fixed this with being compensated……more?
I am confused here as you sound like a manager but are on a maintenance forum attacking Engineers that make sure aircraft perform IAW manufacturers specifications and actually make money.
Sad really but not surprising. I believe you need to go elsewhere for entertainment as clearly you have no idea how airplanes even fly as keyboards don’t turn wrenches and never will.
I used to do this sh*t a long time ago. The pay is terrible, the lifestyle is terrible, the aviation industry in general is just too small and unlucrative. One day I've had enough so I quitted. I tried the automotive industry starting at the bottom. I figured out that it isn't the profession that I would like to continue doing for reasons related to pay and lifestyle. Guys, I restarted over again since I'm just 30 years old! I am not doing a job right now that is related to maint/tech. Those kind of jobs are hard and it pays so f*cking low, right? Honestly I fell into depression, I was lost, my health deteriorated, and I'm thankful to my family for their support on helping me get through that tough time of my life. Seriously right now I am happier with my life and I'm doing better financially. I am just going to appreciate what I currently have! I am working as a line assembler outside of aviation while establishing my business on my spare time. I do have passion when it comes to the reptile pet trade so that is something that I kind of understand. I'd like to let you know that I am taking my time doing it while learning the trade and I'm taking low risk building this business. What I'm doing is investing my savings/earnings breeding rats (frozen thawed), breeding rabbits, and producing affordable substrates, all to support the logistics for the reptile pet industry. One day I'd like to expand to breeding ball pythons which can be kept on a rack full grown. Cheers!
True, but I stopped doing this sh*t years ago. I already lost all my qualifications such as my license, etc. Regarding my age, I'm 31 and I graduated last 2014. Look, I already clarified here that I'm not the most experienced AME and I don't have the credentials of these guys. I already left years ago and I'm just complaining here to express my frustrations with this industry. Let's get real here, this has got to be the worst profession you could possibly take, on an industry that is so f*cking small and unlucrative. I couldn't last doing this sh*t! I feel you guys!
I'm done with Aviation and this whole technical thing. I'm just working an assembler job and selling feeder animals. It's easy to do those! Right now, I'm just a pet keeper who is learning how to care and breed ball pythons successfully. That doesn't require a permit but just accounting/reporting the progenies. To be a professional/legal breeder who is selling these snakes, you need a permit and I'm working towards that accreditation. All breeders(sellers) started out as animal keepers. Obviously I want to do this full-time one day if this will work out.
You guys will spend thousands of dollars on tools (tens of thousands in the automotive) and it's not even making you money, right? Why not spend those money on investment-grade snakes for a breeding project and break it even in just 1 or few breeding times? Your tools are not making you money! It's just masochism!
ludivicchua wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 5:58 pm
True, but I stopped doing this sh*t years ago. I already lost all my qualifications such as my license, etc. Regarding my age, I'm 31 and I graduated last 2014. Look, I already clarified here that I'm not the most experienced AME and I don't have the credentials of these guys. I already left years ago and I'm just complaining here to express my frustrations with this industry. Let's get real here, this has got to be the worst profession you could possibly take, on an industry that is so f*cking small and unlucrative. I couldn't last doing this sh*t! I feel you guys!
I'm done with Aviation and this whole technical thing. I'm just working an assembler job and selling feeder animals. It's easy to do those! Right now, I'm just a pet keeper who is learning how to care and breed ball pythons successfully. That doesn't require a permit but just accounting/reporting the progenies. To be a professional/legal breeder who is selling these snakes, you need a permit and I'm working towards that accreditation. All breeders(sellers) started out as animal keepers. Obviously I want to do this full-time one day if this will work out.
Honest question, if you are truly happy with what you are now doing with your life then why do you feel the need to return to this forum year after year and complain about an industry that you are no longer a part of? I find it odd to dedicate that much (if any) of your time to something if you have moved on.
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Last edited by 213AME on Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe I feel vindictive. What I meant by "happy" is I was never happy getting into this field anyway. Therefore I am happier now regardless. Am I making any sense? Look, these experienced guys in this forum have given their detailed and concise feedback on the terrible state of this industry and its bleak future. Reality is reality! I've done this job like you people and I am not pursuing it further! Lmao, is this even a job or a concentration camp? I'm done and the proof is I lost all my qualifications!
I'm not a Pilot but I know plenty of people who went to get their CPL. We all know how that profession works! You see how sh*tty these jobs are and how unreasonable it is to do? It wouldn't be surprising that these careers are not getting any interest! Having worked in Aviation for years, I know how sh*tty that industry is! What the f*ck, lol, this industry is so small that opportunities are rare! You wanna get into this industry? Lol!
I'm done being a loser! Tell me how are you people treated doing this kind of job?
