Is it that bad at AC for pilots? I mean food stamp bad!

[cjp]

The reason canadians can't work in the US is the reason why canada carriers pay like garbage.

Wrong.

It’s all in our history.

There is only a single legacy airline remaining in Canada unlike the US. The amalgamation of Canadian, CP, Wardair, Nordair, PWA, Easter Provincial left just Air Canada.

-That single legacy airline pre 911 paid similar wages to US carriers.

- Air Canada pilots gave in 2003-04 during CCAA. Unfortunately this restructuring was more about monetization than viability.

- By 2009 Air Canada was back up against the ropes. Air Canada pilots gave again to protect the pension.

- In 2011 government interference and FOS saw the Air Canada pilots give yet again.

- In 2014, for the stability of the company, the Air Canada pilots locked in all these losses for 10 years.

Today Air Canada pilots make a fraction of US wages because their pilots never had a chance to recover from CCAA in 2003. Making it worse there was no other comparable legacy airline in Canada to hold up wages.

Over time airline management in Canada has started declaring our post bankruptcy wages the new normal. The Canadian normal. Some pilots have even bought into it.

It’s not normal. Historically we have always been paid slightly less but similar to our North American peers. It’s only really the last decade that the split has taken place as US pilots started clawing back their post 911 bankruptcy losses and Air Canada pilots did not as they were stuck in a 10 year deal.

It’s now our turn to recover.

Boom!

What hasn't helped, is everyone rushing to AC at all points of their career for a seniority number, unintendedly validating managements position that pay was fair for the work requested.

Hopefully things work out in the fall for y'all. Hopefully those on flat pay and struggling, or nearly retired can get by and not capitulate when you need to dig in your heels for the good of the yourselves and the industry.

[Fanblade]

The reason canadians can't work in the US is the reason why canada carriers pay like garbage.

Wrong.

It’s all in our history.

There is only a single legacy airline remaining in Canada unlike the US. The amalgamation of Canadian, CP, Wardair, Nordair, PWA, Easter Provincial left just Air Canada.

-That single legacy airline pre 911 paid similar wages to US carriers.

- Air Canada pilots gave in 2003-04 during CCAA. Unfortunately this restructuring was more about monetization than viability.

- By 2009 Air Canada was back up against the ropes. Air Canada pilots gave again to protect the pension.

- In 2011 government interference and FOS saw the Air Canada pilots give yet again.

- In 2014, for the stability of the company, the Air Canada pilots locked in all these losses for 10 years.

Today Air Canada pilots make a fraction of US wages because their pilots never had a chance to recover from CCAA in 2003. Making it worse there was no other comparable legacy airline in Canada to hold up wages.

Over time airline management in Canada has started declaring our post bankruptcy wages the new normal. The Canadian normal. Some pilots have even bought into it.

It’s not normal. Historically we have always been paid slightly less but similar to our North American peers. It’s only really the last decade that the split has taken place as US pilots started clawing back their post 911 bankruptcy losses and Air Canada pilots did not as they were stuck in a 10 year deal.

It’s now our turn to recover.

Boom!

What hasn't helped, is everyone rushing to AC at all points of their career for a seniority number, unintendedly validating managements position that pay was fair for the work requested.

Hopefully things work out in the fall for y'all. Hopefully those on flat pay and struggling, or nearly retired can get by and not capitulate when you need to dig in your heels for the good of the yourselves and the industry.

The biggest problem with a post like ME262 made was not that it was historically inaccurate.

The biggest problem is that it is defeatist. It implies there is nothing we can do about it. It’s out of our control.

The origin of this messaging, “you make less because you can’t work in the US”, is from AC management.

They want you to feel defeated. They want you to give up.

They want to maintain their Canadian discount.

Management will always try to set your value low. It is why you NEVER let management set your value.

You are not “just a Canadian” and therefor have less value.

[cjp]

Wrong.

It’s all in our history.

There is only a single legacy airline remaining in Canada unlike the US. The amalgamation of Canadian, CP, Wardair, Nordair, PWA, Easter Provincial left just Air Canada.

-That single legacy airline pre 911 paid similar wages to US carriers.

- Air Canada pilots gave in 2003-04 during CCAA. Unfortunately this restructuring was more about monetization than viability.

- By 2009 Air Canada was back up against the ropes. Air Canada pilots gave again to protect the pension.

- In 2011 government interference and FOS saw the Air Canada pilots give yet again.

- In 2014, for the stability of the company, the Air Canada pilots locked in all these losses for 10 years.

Today Air Canada pilots make a fraction of US wages because their pilots never had a chance to recover from CCAA in 2003. Making it worse there was no other comparable legacy airline in Canada to hold up wages.

Over time airline management in Canada has started declaring our post bankruptcy wages the new normal. The Canadian normal. Some pilots have even bought into it.

It’s not normal. Historically we have always been paid slightly less but similar to our North American peers. It’s only really the last decade that the split has taken place as US pilots started clawing back their post 911 bankruptcy losses and Air Canada pilots did not as they were stuck in a 10 year deal.

It’s now our turn to recover.

Boom!

What hasn't helped, is everyone rushing to AC at all points of their career for a seniority number, unintendedly validating managements position that pay was fair for the work requested.

Hopefully things work out in the fall for y'all. Hopefully those on flat pay and struggling, or nearly retired can get by and not capitulate when you need to dig in your heels for the good of the yourselves and the industry.

The biggest problem with a post like ME262 made was not that it was historically inaccurate.

The biggest problem is that it is defeatist. It implies there is nothing we can do about it. It’s out of our control.

The origin of this messaging, “you make less because you can’t work in the US”, is from AC management.

They want you to feel defeated. They want you to give up.

They want to maintain their Canadian discount.

Management will always try to set your value low. It is why you NEVER let management set your value.

You are not “just a Canadian” and therefor have less value.

I agree entirely. If more people had an understanding of the economics, they would see more clearly the advantage AC, as a corporation, had created for upper echelon profitability, all on the backs of its pilot group. I believe more people would've sat on the sidelines - thus allowing the situation to correct itself more expeditiously.

Unfortunately that is not the case, and a byproduct of low competition in an industry is everyone flocking like lemmings to the same toxic watering hole.