Strike vote

[rookiepilot]

Is there something wrong with binding arbitration? Seems like a judge-like person looks at both sides and makes a decision that is reasonable.

I was a member of a union that had a no strike clause and binding arbitration as policy. It worked out quite well for us at that time and I remember the company being very pissed off after one of them as the pilots pretty much got all they were asking for, and they got it all with no strike. No passengers and businesses screwed over by a small group of people, no loss of pay for the pilots, and no strike loss for the company.

Do you think an arbitrator is going to give the AC pilots back all that they have given up (or had taken away) over two decades? Do you think an arbitrator is going to upgrade work rules that are arguably the worst in the industry to a level that is comparable to US legacy carriers? Don't you think that an arbitrator is going to be unsympathetic to the impact on profits that would result from the aforementioned changes?

Right-to-strike is the right to fight for those enhancements, understanding the consequence.

Question is whether or not in Canada there is in fact a right-to-strike.

Should the arbitrator consider how many billions Air Canada lost during Covid?

No.

Absolutely Not the workers problem. That’s to be borne by shareholders.

[digits_]

Is there something wrong with binding arbitration? Seems like a judge-like person looks at both sides and makes a decision that is reasonable.

I was a member of a union that had a no strike clause and binding arbitration as policy. It worked out quite well for us at that time and I remember the company being very pissed off after one of them as the pilots pretty much got all they were asking for, and they got it all with no strike. No passengers and businesses screwed over by a small group of people, no loss of pay for the pilots, and no strike loss for the company.

Do you think an arbitrator is going to give the AC pilots back all that they have given up (or had taken away) over two decades? Do you think an arbitrator is going to upgrade work rules that are arguably the worst in the industry to a level that is comparable to US legacy carriers? Don't you think that an arbitrator is going to be unsympathetic to the impact on profits that would result from the aforementioned changes?

Right-to-strike is the right to fight for those enhancements, understanding the consequence.

Question is whether or not in Canada there is in fact a right-to-strike.

Should the arbitrator consider how many billions Air Canada lost during Covid?

Whose rights are more important in this rail strike - 40 million Canadians negatively affected(some very seriously) or 4000 strikers? How does that apply to Air Canada. I say: Binding Arbitration.

I'm happy for AC pilots to get a decent raise but I think you will have as much sympathy from the public as the public servants have.

I think the underlying theme of your message sounds a bit like "now is not a good time to strike". Which is true (from a public point of view). But you can say that pretty much anytime. It's never a good time for a strike. And the 'worse' time it is, the more effective a strike usually is.

The right to legally strike in Canada is already very weak. You need a union, need to bargain for months, go through all kinds of processes. Workers can generally strike maybe once every 5 years? Given that the strike opportunity is already so limited, when it finally is time to strike, good or bad timing, the workers fully deserve to exercise that right. And public perception shouldn't matter. And the government absolutely should not intervene. If companies piss off their workers for 5 years, don't be surprised that things blow up when given the opportunity.

If you want to level the playing field: allow unions to strike at any time. Most European countries have such striking culture. And there public perception is important, which keeps the unions in check not to go overboard.

[rudder]

I'm happy for AC pilots to get a decent raise but I think you will have as much sympathy from the public as the public servants have.

The AC pilots do not require nor should they solicit “sympathy from the public”.

Much has been taken. It is time to take it back.

[cjp]

Do you think an arbitrator is going to give the AC pilots back all that they have given up (or had taken away) over two decades? Do you think an arbitrator is going to upgrade work rules that are arguably the worst in the industry to a level that is comparable to US legacy carriers? Don't you think that an arbitrator is going to be unsympathetic to the impact on profits that would result from the aforementioned changes?

Right-to-strike is the right to fight for those enhancements, understanding the consequence.

Question is whether or not in Canada there is in fact a right-to-strike.

Should the arbitrator consider how many billions Air Canada lost during Covid?

Whose rights are more important in this rail strike - 40 million Canadians negatively affected(some very seriously) or 4000 strikers? How does that apply to Air Canada. I say: Binding Arbitration.

I'm happy for AC pilots to get a decent raise but I think you will have as much sympathy from the public as the public servants have.

I think the underlying theme of your message sounds a bit like "now is not a good time to strike". Which is true (from a public point of view). But you can say that pretty much anytime. It's never a good time for a strike. And the 'worse' time it is, the more effective a strike usually is.

The right to legally strike in Canada is already very weak. You need a union, need to bargain for months, go through all kinds of processes. Workers can generally strike maybe once every 5 years? Given that the strike opportunity is already so limited, when it finally is time to strike, good or bad timing, the workers fully deserve to exercise that right. And public perception shouldn't matter. And the government absolutely should not intervene. If companies piss off their workers for 5 years, don't be surprised that things blow up when given the opportunity.

If you want to level the playing field: allow unions to strike at any time. Most European countries have such striking culture. And there public perception is important, which keeps the unions in check not to go overboard.

This is business.

The ALPA piper has played his song, and AC pilots are owed their pound of flesh. Sympathy or not, the CIRB, and Feds need to stick to the sidelines while ALPA has a fair opportunity to negotiate with Air Canada management to get serious when they come back to the table. 98% should signal that EVERY item needs addressing - there is no more net zero, there is no more discount, there is no more bullshit.

These negotiations will have a negligible effect on overall costs - even if they cave and give you your WCC. It's such pomp and circumstance manufactured by a toxic management culture who refuse to acknowledge flight crew as a fundamental cog in the machine. They have been blessed with Canadian employer protection, which has made them disillusioned, and lazy.

Time to wake them the f*** up, preferably before September ends.

Happy hunting.

[pelmet]

I'm happy for AC pilots to get a decent raise but I think you will have as much sympathy from the public as the public servants have.

The AC pilots do not require nor should they solicit “sympathy from the public”.

Then don't be surprised for the public to demand a forced settlement and to care as much about you as you and the rail workers care about them, which as we see no, is zero care for all the other businesses and people affected by a very small percentage of people. Our entire GDP is being affected by this.

I say binding arbitration and hope for a good, realistic settlement for the pilots.

[RippleRock]

DP.

[RippleRock]

Is there something wrong with binding arbitration? Seems like a judge-like person looks at both sides and makes a decision that is reasonable.

I was a member of a union that had a no strike clause and binding arbitration as policy. It worked out quite well for us at that time and I remember the company being very pissed off after one of them as the pilots pretty much got all they were asking for, and they got it all with no strike. No passengers and businesses screwed over by a small group of people, no loss of pay for the pilots, and no strike loss for the company.

Do you think an arbitrator is going to give the AC pilots back all that they have given up (or had taken away) over two decades? Do you think an arbitrator is going to upgrade work rules that are arguably the worst in the industry to a level that is comparable to US legacy carriers? Don't you think that an arbitrator is going to be unsympathetic to the impact on profits that would result from the aforementioned changes?

Right-to-strike is the right to fight for those enhancements, understanding the consequence.

Question is whether or not in Canada there is in fact a right-to-strike.

Should the arbitrator consider how many billions Air Canada lost during Covid?

Whose rights are more important in this rail strike - 40 million Canadians negatively affected(some very seriously) or 4000 strikers? How does that apply to Air Canada. I say: Binding Arbitration.

I'm happy for AC pilots to get a decent raise but I think you will have as much sympathy from the public as the public servants have.

Exactly! There are only 4000 of them! Time for those two multi-billion dollar rail lines to STEP UP and pay their "only 4000" strikers what they deserve instead of holding 40,000,000 Canadians hostage. I'm hearing nightmares about how shitty their schedules are. Time to fix that.

The rail lines have the ability to stop this nonsense immediately, but they would rather "grind their employees into dust" rather than give anything.

I'm sick of hearing how the Strikers are always deamonized, when all they are trying to do is better their family life and wage package.

It's not the Strikers holding anyone hostage. It's the "skinflint companies" that reap billions in profits off their work, handing it all over to shareholders, and refusing to give much back, while they pay their "head shed" 8-figure salaries with stock options.


The corporate greed is appalling. They are Canadians enemy not the people who drive trains.

[pelmet]

It's not the Strikers holding anyone hostage. It's the "skinflint companies" that reap billions in profits off their work, handing it all over to shareholders, and refusing to give much back, while they pay their "head shed" 8-figure salaries with stock options.

I wonder how many strikers with a pension will happily take every last cent of benefit from its shareholding dividends but want to cut back the dividends/stock appreciation of the shareholders of their company. Funny how that works.

Binding arbitration and hope for the best for the pilots(and rail workers).

[Daniel Cooper]

So wait. CN locked out their workers, which weren't on strike, then went to cry to the government that their workers weren't working, only for the government to tell CN to stop the lockdown, so the workers which weren't striking can go back to work?

And the CBC and other outlets weren't reporting this at all. That was disturbing to me. CN ran to the government to stop a "strike" that only CN caused.

[RippleRock]

It's not the Strikers holding anyone hostage. It's the "skinflint companies" that reap billions in profits off their work, handing it all over to shareholders, and refusing to give much back, while they pay their "head shed" 8-figure salaries with stock options.

I wonder how many strikers with a pension will happily take every last cent of benefit from its shareholding dividends but want to cut back the dividends/stock appreciation of the shareholders of their company. Funny how that works.

Binding arbitration and hope for the best for the pilots(and rail workers).

Let's see how that wish for BA plays out.

Binding arbitration is "against the law" in Canada unless both parties agree to it. Check with a lawyer.

[Blueontop]

It's not the Strikers holding anyone hostage. It's the "skinflint companies" that reap billions in profits off their work, handing it all over to shareholders, and refusing to give much back, while they pay their "head shed" 8-figure salaries with stock options.

I wonder how many strikers with a pension will happily take every last cent of benefit from its shareholding dividends but want to cut back the dividends/stock appreciation of the shareholders of their company. Funny how that works.

Binding arbitration and hope for the best for the pilots(and rail workers).

Hope in one hand and shit in the other… see how that plays out

[rookiepilot]

It's not the Strikers holding anyone hostage. It's the "skinflint companies" that reap billions in profits off their work, handing it all over to shareholders, and refusing to give much back, while they pay their "head shed" 8-figure salaries with stock options.

I wonder how many strikers with a pension will happily take every last cent of benefit from its shareholding dividends but want to cut back the dividends/stock appreciation of the shareholders of their company. Funny how that works.

Binding arbitration and hope for the best for the pilots(and rail workers).

Hope in one hand and shit in the other… see how that plays out

He’s just trolling. Likely a frustrated AC stock holder….

Try supporting workers after a brutal period for inflation….the right thing to do.

[Old fella]

I'm happy for AC pilots to get a decent raise but I think you will have as much sympathy from the public as the public servants have.

The AC pilots do not require nor should they solicit “sympathy from the public”.

Much has been taken. It is time to take it back.

You bet. Nobody else will look after your interests other than yourselves and the association that represents your group. Sympathy from the public will equal “ the sum of fu$k and all”. The very best of luck going forward to achieve what you richly deserve.

[pelmet]

He’s just trolling. Likely a frustrated AC stock holder….

Ha,

I remember resident expert Rookie telling us that AC stock was a ‘chip shot’ to 25 bucks.

Meanwhile, we were told the stock market was going to crash(record high this week). I kept my investments, did well on my U.S. bank stock investment during the crisis last year(up 50% in my TFSA and our resident expert posted on his Twitter admitting lack of performance and a career change to a preacher. I still like GLD stuff if you are looking for fresh advice. Never did like Russia.

[rookiepilot]

He’s just trolling. Likely a frustrated AC stock holder….

Ha,

I remember resident expert Rookie telling us that AC stock was a ‘chip shot’ to 25 bucks.

Meanwhile, we were told the stock market was going to crash(record high this week). I kept my investments, did well on my U.S. bank stock investment during the crisis last year(up 50% in my TFSA and our resident expert posted on his Twitter admitting lack of performance and a career change to a preacher. I still like GLD stuff if you are looking for fresh advice. Never did like Russia.

We’re all SO PROUD of you!

Maybe AC would go up if you could whip the pilots into working for free?

Read the room. Support workers during a tough time.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

LOL.

Thought this wasn’t supposed to happen with Sellout Singh having your backs.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cn-rai ... -1.7301419

Despite your demoralization I remain optimistic.

[bcflyer]

Just in Canada's Minister of Labour, Steven MacKinnon has directed the CIRB to order CN and CPKC resumption or work activities, binding Arbitration and extending the collective agreement. We do not live in a democratic country. Sadly I am convinced the same will happen with AC Pilots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0Z_xoW2D2o

LOL.

Thought this wasn’t supposed to happen with Sellout Singh having your backs.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cn-rai ... -1.7301419

It’s all just noise and you fell for it. The labour minister has overstepped his authority. He can’t order what he thinks he can. Still no word from the CIRB, still no back to work legislation, CPKC workers are still out, CN workers just gave notice. No sell out from Singh.
Not sure what you are talking about.

[khedrei]

It doesnt matter what he does or doesnt do here, Singh sold out when he propped up this disaster of a liberal government. So a very long time ago.

[RippleRock]

There's a strange logic out there.

The narrative is that its always the strikers holding the company or the public hostage. Never the other way around. At minimum, it's equally the company that's causing the strife. There is no language in any law that prevents the company from finding a negotiated settlement with it's employees. Not one. Shutdowns are a decision the company makes, full stop. Then they try to point the finger at anyone but themselves, just like Westjet management did with the AME's.

It's the company's refusal to value it's employees and lazy negotiating that is the root cause. I have read some of CN/CPKC working conditions, day off clauses, vacation allotment and such. These guys and gals are getting "worked" by CN and CPKC. However when trying to stand up and improve their lot in life, they are being demonized by the Media as "the bad guys". It struck me hard when it was pointed out above that "4000 employees are holding 40,000,000 Canadians hostage". This is absolutely absurd. We are talking about a "paltry dent" in the operational costs in the "multi-billion dollar operations" that are CN and CPKC. It's literally less than a "rounding error" in the big scheme.

When you are talking about companies this large, paying 4000 employees 30% more, as opposed to say 15% more, the difference is laughable. If any company as large as these are "declaring hardship" because of the increased payroll, they shouldn't be in business if the yields are that skinny. Same with Air Canada. The "cupboards are full".

Pay your frontline employees properly, as they are the "face of the company". Nowhere is this more important than in Aviation.


Fight for what you deserve, and don't feel guilty about it one bit. If you have to walk off the job to press your case. Just walk, and don't look back.



Hold the Line

[thepoors]

There's a strange logic out there.

The narrative is that its always the strikers holding the company or the public hostage. Never the other way around. At minimum, it's equally the company that's causing the strife. There is no language in any law that prevents the company from finding a negotiated settlement with it's employees. Not one. Shutdowns are a decision the company makes, full stop. Then they try to point the finger at anyone but themselves, just like Westjet management did with the AME's.

Also see Murray's recent memo...or whatever the f**k that was. They love to play the victim. "The company tried to make several industry leading and highly generous offers that the spoiled pilot group stubbornly turned down."

This after refusing to negotiate in good faith for over a year. They will still try to play it like ALPA are the bad guys when we declare a strike. No doubt they will also go crying to the government for illegal arbitration.

[Jean-Pierre]

Also see Murray's recent memo...or whatever the f**k that was. They love to play the victim. "The company tried to make several industry leading and highly generous offers that the spoiled pilot group stubbornly turned down."

Again? It is problematic that he addresses the pilot group directly regarding negotiations. It actually feels illegal but who knows.

[cjp]

Bright side, Tim Perry sent a message out yesterday condemning the hypocrisy of the Federal government and reminding them to keeo to their word and remain on the sidelines.

At least the CN KNCP situation is really going to provide some testing of the waters going forward.

[TCAS II]

The federal labour board has ordered thousands of rail employees back to work after a bitter contract dispute shut down the country's two major railways.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cirb-d ... -1.7304194

[cjp]

The federal labour board has ordered thousands of rail employees back to work after a bitter contract dispute shut down the country's two major railways.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cirb-d ... -1.7304194

As a man for the workers, Jagmeet Singh needs to immediately move for a motion of non-confidence with the conservatives and pressure the Liberals to take a step back. This is unacceptable.

[khedrei]

I have read some of CN/CPKC working conditions, day off clauses, vacation allotment and such. These guys and gals are getting "worked" by CN and CPKC.


Hold the Line

You haven't heard wrong and probably can't imagine a life like that.

The captains at majors right now need to think back to when they were starting out on reserve.

Now imagine that your reserve didn't have an open and closing window. You had to protect 24 hours.

Now imagine that there were no scheduled flights to cover. You wouldn't know if flights had been covered cause there were none so you have no idea if you'd be needed cause they could call a random flight at any moment to go anywhere.

Now imagine that your GDO's don't exist. That's right, 24/7 on call. Other than your annual vacation which they would try to work you into sometimes.

And if you couldn't imagine things being any worse, do all that for 25 years before you got to have enough seniority to now be reserve only 1/4 days.

Do it, and do it for 100-200k less than you're making now.

These guys have lots to fight for. Sadly the government intervention doesn't surprise me. Although in the past it generally took longer than a day to get things started. Sick.