Recall of MEC Chair & Vice Chair

[BigGreen]

Now that it's done, it's time to move on.

But the motions were bullshit and it wasn't 80%.
YYZ was something like 47 - 45 on the vote and the Yea vote was mostly made up of proxies. Most of the people actually in the room voted against the motion.

If you actually canvassed the membership you will find little support for this.

But it's done. Whoever wanted to stir this up, better step up, and we had all better hope that it isn't old ACPA company kiss-asses trying to get their fingers back in the pie.

We'll find out Friday afternoon what the new face of this MEC will be.

This is factually incorrect.

The motion passed by more than that and I understand even more in YVR.

Even if it is was close, we don't need a MEC Chair where over half the people want them gone.

Time to move on. Time to rally behind new leadership.

[Alkasultzer]

Thank you for a job almost well done.

Names. Many people want the names of those who were behind this distasteful resolution. Some are obvious from the chats.

Are meeting minutes available?

They held an anonymous survey of the entire membership. If you want to know how people really feel let them speak anonymously without social pressure of not being mean to a girl or whatever.

Ahh who we kidding

I was scared to wear a lanyard during negotiations. I ain't doing jack sheet but being a keyboard warrior in my basement.

[ClearedDirect]

From Alkaseltzer:

I’m sure yyz lec will have your interests

They don't believe in selling us permanent concessions?

Only P4C does. I have less money in my bank account thanks to them.

What a resounding turn of events. From anti P4C to biggest fan boy of the P4C founder

Admit it Alkasultzer...you don't know what you're doing...let the adults do their thing

[Bede]

I'm sure some of the keyboard warriors will be more than happy to step up and fill the void.

[altiplano]

Now that it's done, it's time to move on.

But the motions were bullshit and it wasn't 80%.
YYZ was something like 47 - 45 on the vote and the Yea vote was mostly made up of proxies. Most of the people actually in the room voted against the motion.

If you actually canvassed the membership you will find little support for this.

But it's done. Whoever wanted to stir this up, better step up, and we had all better hope that it isn't old ACPA company kiss-asses trying to get their fingers back in the pie.

We'll find out Friday afternoon what the new face of this MEC will be.

This is factually incorrect.

The motion passed by more than that and I understand even more in YVR.

Even if it is was close, we don't need a MEC Chair where over half the people want them gone.

Time to move on. Time to rally behind new leadership.

No it's not. Small groups carrying multiple proxies. Less than 50 votes trying to malign the leadership of 5500 pilots.

Over half the people didn't want them gone. There are 5500 people.

I'm prepared to rally behind new leadership, but I will see who that is before I do. This group has a history of duds and all the status reps that brought you the TA are still there, and that's who are voting for this. And they just threw Charlene under the bus for doing what they voted for her to do rather than step up to the membership and be accountable themselves.

This fixation and movement against Charlene was misplaced.

[noreasterYHZ]

Now that it's done, it's time to move on.

But the motions were bullshit and it wasn't 80%.
YYZ was something like 47 - 45 on the vote and the Yea vote was mostly made up of proxies. Most of the people actually in the room voted against the motion.

If you actually canvassed the membership you will find little support for this.

But it's done. Whoever wanted to stir this up, better step up, and we had all better hope that it isn't old ACPA company kiss-asses trying to get their fingers back in the pie.

We'll find out Friday afternoon what the new face of this MEC will be.

This is factually incorrect.

The motion passed by more than that and I understand even more in YVR.

Even if it is was close, we don't need a MEC Chair where over half the people want them gone.

Time to move on. Time to rally behind new leadership.

No it's not. Small groups carrying multiple proxies. Less than 50 votes trying to malign the leadership of 5500 pilots.

Over half the people didn't want them gone. There are 5500 people.

I'm prepared to rally behind new leadership, but I will see who that is before I do. This group has a history of duds and all the status reps that brought you the TA are still there, and that's who are voting for this. And they just threw Charlene under the bus for doing what they voted for her to do rather than step up to the membership and be accountable themselves.

This fixation and movement against Charlene was misplaced.

I feel like you rarely actually read what other people say

Point being...did you not read her message where she said the MEC was not supporting her anymore?

Are you saying the MEC doesn't represent the pilots anymore?

We got a grass roots motion from the members...BOTH passed. A MEC that doesn't support her...

What exactly is the problem here? Ever thought you are the minority and actually the one out to lunch?

[altiplano]

This is factually incorrect.

The motion passed by more than that and I understand even more in YVR.

Even if it is was close, we don't need a MEC Chair where over half the people want them gone.

Time to move on. Time to rally behind new leadership.

No it's not. Small groups carrying multiple proxies. Less than 50 votes trying to malign the leadership of 5500 pilots.

Over half the people didn't want them gone. There are 5500 people.

I'm prepared to rally behind new leadership, but I will see who that is before I do. This group has a history of duds and all the status reps that brought you the TA are still there, and that's who are voting for this. And they just threw Charlene under the bus for doing what they voted for her to do rather than step up to the membership and be accountable themselves.

This fixation and movement against Charlene was misplaced.

I feel like you rarely actually read what other people say

Point being...did you not read her message where she said the MEC was not supporting her anymore?

Are you saying the MEC doesn't represent the pilots anymore?

We got a grass roots motion from the members...BOTH passed. A MEC that doesn't support her...

What exactly is the problem here? Ever thought you are the minority and actually the one out to lunch?

I very carefully read what other people say, whereas I feel like other people, like you, don't comprehend basic concepts that I present, and then introduce fallacy and made up assertion.

I clearly state in what you quote that the MEC threw her under the bus.

Her statement was that the "silence from the MEC is deafening" - we didn't hear a thing either way from them because they are covering their own asses now, even though they voted for the TA and pushed the sell job with her as the tip of their spear.

I don't know if the MEC represents the pilots, do you think they do? Do you understand that the status reps are the ones that pulled Charlene's strings. Those Yes MEC voters from yul/ywg/yvr are still there... Why don't you recall them at the meeting?

Some bullshit contrived resolutions at local meetings with low attendance and paper votes of people that weren't even there mean nothing real. We're talking about 0.02% of the membership that voted yes. Hardly a grassroots groundswell of support or a majority. I heard about a petition that was circulated too and it went nowhere.

[GeoffPilot]

It's pretty obvious it is just a few angry members who don't like change.

Between passed motions, a MEC and now survey data, it is clear the membership wanted new direction.

[flyinhigh]

Are AC Pilots not allowed to be critical of their great leaders?

Is ALPA Air Canada like a cult?

Critical yes, but saying she sold the pilot group out; etc is BS.

[altiplano]

It's pretty obvious it is just a few angry members who don't like change.

Between passed motions, a MEC and now survey data, it is clear the membership wanted new direction.

"passed motions"
- less than 0.02% of membership voting in mostly empty rooms

"a MEC"
- that has said zero and is the same MEC that brought you the TA, the sales job, and directed the MEC Chair

"survey data"
- you don't have the survey data, you don't know what that is, and any questions were related to "trust in the MEC" - not "trust in the MEC Chair"

It may be that the status reps didn't like what came back in that and now here they are throwing people under the bus after their own cowardly performances. That's where you should be directing your displeasure. YVR, YWG, & YUL especially.

Just wait to see what comes from this. They should be voting on the new executive now. I'm praying we don't get a clown show out of this.

[altiplano]

Are AC Pilots not allowed to be critical of their great leaders?

Is ALPA Air Canada like a cult?

Critical yes, but saying she sold the pilot group out; etc is BS.

Absolutely. I didn't agree with the one critical thing at the end, but I never saw anyone work so hard for the membership. She achieved far far more for AC pilots than anyone else maybe ever, and she did it in less than 2 years. ALPA, unity, pickets, and above all she raised our expectations of what we could achieve.

It was the status members that voted the deal then told her to sell it. They should be wearing this.

[Daniel Cooper]

She achieved far far more for AC pilots than anyone else maybe ever, and she did it in less than 2 years. ALPA, unity, pickets, and above all she raised our expectations of what we could achieve.

She did but then she didn't. So we got WestJet plus 2%. An arbitrator wouldn't have given less.

[CPU2000]

She achieved far far more for AC pilots than anyone else maybe ever, and she did it in less than 2 years. ALPA, unity, pickets, and above all she raised our expectations of what we could achieve.

She did but then she didn't. So we got WestJet plus 2%. An arbitrator wouldn't have given less.

Minus long call reserve, training inside of block, TAFB productivity ratio

People that think Air Canada pilots have a "good contract" are delusional

[Montroyal]

She achieved far far more for AC pilots than anyone else maybe ever, and she did it in less than 2 years. ALPA, unity, pickets, and above all she raised our expectations of what we could achieve.

She did but then she didn't. So we got WestJet plus 2%. An arbitrator wouldn't have given less.

Minus long call reserve, training inside of block, TAFB productivity ratio

People that think Air Canada pilots have a "good contract" are delusional

And minus any bonus plan

[altiplano]

You guys are the best at missing the point... it's no fucking wonder we suck.

[BigGreen]

You guys are the best at missing the point... it's no fucking wonder we suck.

I believe there was more going on behind the scenes than just the TA. The Chair & Vice Chair had lost the room and lost most of the pilots.

All the new MEC Executives come from the recent battle so experience is still there without the chaos of threats of resignations.

Time to band together and move on.

[thepoors]

I don't know if the MEC represents the pilots, do you think they do? Do you understand that the status reps are the ones that pulled Charlene's strings. Those Yes MEC voters from yul/ywg/yvr are still there... Why don't you recall them at the meeting?

Do you mean the LEC reps? They're the ones that voted on the TA. And yes, YUL and YWG especially are a disgrace. If I recall correctly, there were zero yes votes in YYZ except for the rep who gave YWG a proxy.

Some bullshit contrived resolutions at local meetings with low attendance and paper votes of people that weren't even there mean nothing real. We're talking about 0.02% of the membership that voted yes. Hardly a grassroots groundswell of support or a majority. I heard about a petition that was circulated too and it went nowhere.

I agree the voting system for resolutions only being in person is a farce, there really needs to be an online system implemented. However, it's still representative of the overall sentiment. Not one person I've spoken to about this is upset that she's done. She didn't have a leg to stand on after the hostage video. We could not go forward with a leader that had no legitimacy. No one would take her seriously anymore, not the membership and not the company. This was necessary.

[rudder]

It’s over. Move on.

Things were said and done by the MEC Executive in the last 8-12 months that left many wondering if they should continue to represent the pilots. And now the past threat of resignation is a reality. Might have been cleaner if they both simply made it clear they would not accept a nomination to run again, but the recall motions made it clear that some pilots wanted that outcome to be unambiguous.

Next target should be the local council reps. It is about accountability. And agenda item 1 should be investigating the closure of the YWG council. Article III - Section 10 of the ALPA Constitution allows for dissolution of a local council by the Master Executive Council. The YWG pilots can be annexed to either the YVR or YYZ local council. No more 25 pilot local council rep having the same voting weight as a 1000 pilot local council rep.

As for the new Executive - the unofficial renegotiation of the CBA began the day after it was ratified. Pick individuals that understand the tone and result of Contract 2027 is being set in 2025/2026. No waivers - no favours. 100% enforcement. The only changes to the CBA prior to 2027 will be improvements.

Much of the tactics that CH deployed were standard ALPA services. They will be there no matter who serves as MEC Chair. So the choice is about character, knowledge, experience, and leadership qualities. Ability to speak publicly and in closed session. Ability to articulate goals and strategy on behalf of the AC pilots. Ability to execute the MEC plan. Ability to adapt while the exercise is in progress. Ability to lead, where necessary. Ability to take direction, where necessary.

There are over 5500 eligible candidates. Choose wisely.

[Mr. North]

Next target should be the local council reps. It is about accountability. And agenda item 1 should be investigating the closure of the YWG council. Article III - Section 10 of the ALPA Constitution allows for dissolution of a local council by the Master Executive Council. The YWG pilots can be annexed to either the YVR or YYZ local council. No more 25 pilot local council rep having the same voting weight as a 1000 pilot local council rep.

I encourage you to go back and reread that section again. Only the Executive Council, with concurrence from the MEC, can dissolve a local council. That's an incredibly high bar to pass not to mention extremely divisive.

[altiplano]

It's an interesting proposition.

Less divisive than 50 pilots, less than 1% of membership, getting 20% (or 30%!) of the vote on the MEC.

[alkaseltzer]

From Alkaseltzer:

They don't believe in selling us permanent concessions?

Only P4C does. I have less money in my bank account thanks to them.

What a resounding turn of events. From anti P4C to biggest fan boy of the P4C founder

Admit it Alkasultzer...you don't know what you're doing...let the adults do their thing

Alkasultzer and alkaseltzer…two different accounts and being misquoted.

Influx of closet psychos into AC like ClearedDirect and Alkasultzer stirring up fake news

[eurotrash]

From Alkaseltzer:

Only P4C does. I have less money in my bank account thanks to them.

What a resounding turn of events. From anti P4C to biggest fan boy of the P4C founder

Admit it Alkasultzer...you don't know what you're doing...let the adults do their thing

Alkasultzer and alkaseltzer…two different accounts and being misquoted.

Influx of closet psychos into AC like ClearedDirect and Alkasultzer stirring up fake news

Yes or No...did P4C get you more money than your beloved ACPA?

Just Yes or No

[Freshredmeat]

It's an interesting proposition.

Less divisive than 50 pilots, less than 1% of membership, getting 20% (or 30%!) of the vote on the MEC.

How many reps does Winnipeg have versus other bases?

[unitatis super omnia]

Why stop at dissolving the YWG base when you can give YYZ another rep or two for a supermajority? The MEC would love it; great idea! At least they would all agree that eliminating weak, out of touch off-base members for experienced, level-headed, yyz keyboard warriors like thepoors will serve the pilots well. Our unity and future success demands listening to the miserable loudmouths who won't lift a finger for their fellow pilots beyond logging keystrokes and raging like an uninformed toddler. The entire MEC exec and NC were YYZ based except for the EA, but that still isn't enough influence apparently. And the proxy wouldn't have made any difference as the Chair was going to approve the TA in the event of a tiebreak anyway. But go ahead, ignore reality and rage on.

How does the endless drone regarding disproportionate representation think that two non-confidence resolutions with 100 votes is the will of the membership? The tail wagging the dog is bad unless it supports your beliefs, which is good. I guess democracy must really suck when it doesn't align with your views after doing absolutely nothing constructive to affect it. And by doing no volunteer work and sacrificing nothing except for the burden of wearing a lanyard and maybe a day or two of picketing earns enough credibility to disparage the integrity of those that did? The MEC made some big mistakes and criticism is needed to improve our performance for 2027. But that doesn't mean we're supposed to listen to those who have never stuck their neck out or done even 1% of what this MEC did to get us pointed away from the dark days of ACPA. Only a fool would trust a flock of lazy cowards denigrating their tireless efforts and sacrifices. I'd sooner quit the union than see it succumb to that style of selfish, obnoxious leadership.

Thank you Charlene, Jesse and all the volunteers who selflessly stood up and answered the call.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I just want someone that will listen to the survey data.