Alex YCV wrote:Invert the question. What if you company puts you on layoff (eligible for EI) and then you start at Navcanada doing the "free training" for IFR? Does starting the training consitute work as far as the EI people are concerned?

Does someone who is validly on EI lose their benefits on the first day of orientation?

I can't imaging the ATC course being considered employment as you are only a student. The crux of the issue is the course itself doesn't qualify for EI coverage or payment as a lot of courses do. Therefore if you are a full time student unavailable to work you lose the benefits. That doesn't strike me as the company's fault, rather it's EI's issue. Whatever the answer to your question above, I hope that people who fall into this category would actually research the answer to that before making the switch.

Alex, legally no you cannot draw EI while in training as an IFR student, so I can't really advise you otherwise on an open public forum.

Being someone who worked the oil patch for a winter, then on EI for the summer a few years back, I know there are ins and outs of using the EI system.

I even recieved a few thousand from them for flight training, and had to really work at it. Basically getting money from the government to further your education is the equivilant to signing your life away, and having to pull teeth just to get them to consider you.

Like most federal government programs, it's a joke.

On NavCans part, no it's not their fault about the EI issue, but they failed to properly setup student loan funding prior to de-centralizing training, and now they'll likely never get it back.

I wouldn't be in that position (I am self employed now, and would likely continue to be through the process) but I could see where someone could end up in a hole with this one.

The training is "work enough" to make EI stop paying you, but it isn't "work enough" for NavCanada to feel the need to pay even whatever the mandated minimum wage for that time period would be.

Again, it gets back to the question of limiting the candidate pool. Someone who is the breadwinner in their family would be much less likely to want to start the process, knowing that they will spend the next year with no discernible income. I have a feeling that this would tip the candidate pool mostly towards recent high school grads, possibly university grads, but certainly much fewer people who have real world full time work experience.

Does anyone know if trainees are eligible to collect parental benefits? I have an 8 week old son at home and am about to take parental leave for he next 9 months. If I start training will I be cut off of parental benefits?

I'm hoping that's not the case but I have a sizeable RRSP to draw from using the Lifelong Learning Plan if I have no other options. I assume that NavCanada training is eligible for this program. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know about the other provinces but here in Quebec, no one, except one bank, considers the training to be education hence it is impossible to get a student loan. Ok I understand EI but you can't even get a freaking student loan!

I was banking on using the LLP to withdraw 10,000 per year from my RSP. Apparently it can only be used for post-secondary educational purposes. I sure hope it qualifies because there is no way I can support a wife and child for very long without an income. I couldn't even feed the dog

I already changed my first choice from IFR to VFR after getting "informed
" on the forums here.

Here's hoping.

I hope you didn't do that just based on what's here, there's a lot of good stuff about IFR, everything here is just the very negative aspect of it.

Braun, you will be better informed if/when you are qualified, but I can tell you someone making a conscious decision to go VFR instead of IFR isn't a horrible idea.

Making the decision only on information based on internet forums may not be the smartest move, but to be honest there isn't much honest information out there from people who have been there.

My suggestion to people is sign up for what you want to do, simple as that.

If you want to work IFR, go IFR, if you really want VFR because you want VFR, and not because you think it's going to be easier, go VFR.

invertedattitude wrote:Braun, you will be better informed if/when you are qualified, but I can tell you someone making a conscious decision to go VFR instead of IFR isn't a horrible idea.

The last thing I want people to think is that I think I am qualified, no I am not. But I have spent enough time in towers and the acc to have a pretty good idea what it's about. Didn't say it was a horrible idea.

Sean YOW wrote:Does anyone know if trainees are eligible to collect parental benefits? I have an 8 week old son at home and am about to take parental leave for he next 9 months. If I start training will I be cut off of parental benefits?

I would call the EI people and ask them this one. I did a parental leave a year ago, and I don't remember anything about not taking training or courses. Working did reduce benefits, but nothing else was mentioned.

The reason regular EI benefits (when you lose a job) might be cut off if you start ATC training is that you are supposed to be able and available for work. If you are doing ATC training, you aren't looking for a job. Just to be clear, I'm not defending the system, just stating how I think it works.

But for parental benefits, there is no requirement to be looking for work, and the whole point is that you aren't available for work. So you should be able to keep the benefits.

Would they have an issue that:

Well if you're able to go to school full time why couldnt you work full time?

Comparing the FAA to Nav Canada training systems is a little dangerous. My understanding is that the last FAA ATC contract let to pretty poor salaries for new controllers - one pay scale for existing controllers and a lower one for new controllers. So they may need to work harder to attract trainees.

I believe the contract was imposed by the FAA after they couldn't reach agreement with the controllers.

I'd rather Nav Canada supported trainees better financially. But if I had to choose between the current system or some money during training then a lower salary for my entire career, I think I'd choose the first one. Assuming I end up qualifying of course. If not, I'd choose the second .

My decision wasn't based solely on these forums. My visit to the Ottawa tower had a lot to do with it. I think my skill set is well suited to that environment and I love the idea of having a window for the next 20 years.

The checkout rate was something that normally wouldn't even be enough to scare me off. I now have a 2 month old son that I need to be concerned about and I need a "reasonable" degree of certaintly before I sacrifice a good job with benefits. It helps that VFR is a shorter period before collecting a paycheque.