Voluntary Safety Shutdown of OP's

[Cat Driver]

Hedley, there is an SMS in place at MFC, which is precisely why there was the Safety Stand down. It was noticed that there was a rash of accidents with MFC aircraft, someone said, "That ain't right," and ops stopped for a few days while staff examined our ops, training and everything else

If SMS is supposed to improve the safety level of a given company how did the issues get so far out of hand that you had to cease operations?

Is the root cause a language issue?

[Stevo226]

Going through the CADORS reported at Moncton just since the start of this year, there's about 8 or 9 incidents involving flat tires, a bunch involving rough running engines or engine failures.

Now looking at CADORS for Empire in YXU (fleet of DA20's as well), not a whole lot to report. interesting

[tsgas]

I' afraid that the lack of proper language training will only be addressed after a fatality forces the issue.

[Cat Driver]

Money trumps safety in far to many decisions.

[yeelut]

If a Chinese student cannot meet to the standard, he or she has to be sent back to China. Yet, how do we determine if he or she is able to make it through the program. Languages? PDM? Situational awareness? Eyes and feet co-ordination? And at which stage of their training? Does the ICAO languages test show exactly a pilot's languages abilities when he or she is under stress?

[carholme]

yeelut;

It would seem to me that these are the types of questions which should have been discussed prior to beginning operations with foreign students. This is not the first time foreign students have been trained in this country and it won't be the last.
This operation has been shut down for a "safety review" and has begun operations again. It has been stated that they have an SMS system in place. Presumably your questions were re-addressed during this review, yet there were two CADORs the other day involving a takeoff on the wrong runway and one for failing to follow instructions in the circuit. Obviously the students understanding of the English language has not improved during the "safety review".
Money often trumps safety and the recent CADORs beg the question, "Are we waiting for a smoking hole before something is done?"

This is our contention about SMS being "self regulation". When the fox is already in the henhouse and realizes what a good food supply he has, he will do anything to prevent the farmer finding out where his chickens have gone. If the farmer is not willing to do anything about the situation, there will be no chickens left in the end and the fox will have to start up again, somewhere else.

carholme

[yeelut]

So.. the latest "Safety Review" was not related to the languages issue, was it? The languages issue is an on-going problem. For me, prop. strikes, removal of cowl cover and shooting an approach are related to the flying skills of the pilot.

For foreign students, sending them solo requires a huge amount of energy to ensure that students can fully understand those common errors and don't let them happen. These things are in all aspects. "Aviate - Navigate - Communicate". Yet, I have seen different airlines pilots (like Jazz) or other English speaking pilot taxi into or take-off from a wrong runway. I am not surprise for those new CARODs after MFC resumed their operations.

[Cat Driver]

I am not surprise for those new CARODs after MFC resumed their operations.

Which means that their SMS is not addressing the problems.

Is there any chance that there are two problems there, language and culture difficulties compounded by inexperienced or poor instructors?

[yeelut]

sounds like a new safety review just solely focusing the language and cultural problem...
in a training environment, how many mistakes a student allows to make...? or be specific...how many a Chinese student can? how many a English-speaking person can?

<- Japanese

inexperienced or poor instructors - wow.. this is a lesson for human factors again..

just like what i first posted.. quality vs quantity
in an assembly line, identify the defects and take them out for re-work..
if unable to be re-worked, label it and totally out...
the more orders a line take, the more defects you can find...
Don't lower the standard down

[Chuck Ellsworth]

in a training environment, how many mistakes a student allows to make...? or be specific...how many a Chinese student can? how many a English-speaking person can?

<- Japanese

When language and or culture becomes a problem leading to higher incidents involving safety there is only one answer, address the problem and correct it.

inexperienced or poor instructors - wow.. this is a lesson for human factors again..

The industry is rife with inexperienced instructors.

I just love it how people trot out the " Human factors " catch all play on words so loved by the industry to make incompetence look like something that can be cured by using catch words like " Human factors ".

What happened to ensuring a high standard of skills and knowledge to be employable as an instructor?

[yeelut]

okay..in case, language or culture is a problem, it still need the "human" to correct it..
but even for those who knows English well or born with it, those incidents also happen to them..
I suspect a lot of close calls in all the ATFs across the country that nobody notices. Seriously, I've learned a lot from these pilots... learn from the others and see what induced the mistakes...fly safe next time...

um.., different languages or cultural groups requires a slightly modification about the training I guess.

"The industry is rife with inexperienced instructors. "
Yes.. and not only these instructors, I am a human being as well... we are not all auto-pilot..
It is fun to study about human... even it also takes place in fighter pilot training...

"What happened to ensuring a high standard of skills and knowledge to be employable as an instructor?"

not playing with the word... if an instructor doesn't want to stay long for being a instructor or doesn't like to sit inside the cockpit of a single engine, it does Affect the quality of his instructing... some may just want to leave asap when their get enough TT...
i don't have any experience about running a FTU... but if i have to hire new instructors, i would pay close attention to them...they are the molds of the assembly line...

[Chuck Ellsworth]

they are the molds of the assembly line...

True, but the product at the end of the assembly line will be the same as the mold.......poor mold...poor product.

Interesting that you use the description " Assembly line " as it is a perfect description of far to many flight schools in Canada and Quebec.

Maybe some day Canada and Quebec will insist on flight schools instead of assembly lines with flawed molds?

[yeelut]

well..off topic.. before being a pilot, i was studying supply chain management and worked in a factory...

dealing with the language or cultural issue, i think the selection process at the very beginning has to be more restricted.. billion of people... i bet could find a lot of good ones...
perform a better incoming quality check about the material from the suppliers...
it may help.. or else it may show how bad the molds actually are..

but how to improve the molds? will the industry determine by itself?
a class 4 mold has to have a supervisor mold..

[2R]

Get your check book out .I will solve all your problems but it will cost you at least a years supply of Guiness

Free advice has no value .So give me at least one months supply for the next word !!!!or continue to look like rank amatuers
will work for booze

[Hedley]

DP, and not the fun kind.