Typically after an interview, you get notified the next week if you made it. Delays can occur only in reference checks or a couple other internal checks we do that are not pertinent to you.
This will typically give you a two to three month lead time to your course. Official letters of offer along with a few other things are sent out 30 days prior to your ground school. If you request a ticket to come and look for accommodations, we have always helped out by booking you positive space.
All in all you have a good couple months or better to organize your life.
Dave.
CAL wrote:That does seem odd that they dont offer you somewhere to stay for at least a set period of time until you can at least organize some sort of place for yourself. I understand that WJ has done well because they dont pay for stuff like this perhaps but....
Moving is difficult and expensive...you need a car a place to live...it would only make sense to offer something for a week or so with transport to make sure you can concentrate on the training and not other things...I think that most of you would agree with that...well unless someone else paid your bill or you have no wife or kids and dont mind sleeping in your car....how long do they give you to move and give notice?!...
what is the portal system?...I am guessing all pilots are based in YYC? How does that work?
i have a keen sense of how the T&Cs of every operator in the canadian aviation industry affect each other. i can assure you that those that negotiate WJ's T&Cs make use of as many collective agreements as they can get their hands on. anything less would be ill advised.
Considering we've hired about 1000 pilots so far and we have maybe 3 or 4 on this forum are challenging the policy, I think it's fair to say what we do is a success and acceptable by way of democracy. Try posting internally on our wjpa if it bugs you enough. I'm guessing nobody will.
The only -large- companies in Canada I recall even doing this are/were Nova (at that dumpy airport hotel) and AC. I know I didn't get a hotel when I did my initial GS at Air Ontario. Can someone at Jazz tell me that if you get a Toronto Base and you train in YYZ - do they pay for a hotel on the initial? Has that changed? I won't even go down that road with AC's own challenges.
Dave
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From the sounds of things, I'm guessing most are just afraid of going against the grain. Dave, I don't know when you got on at AO but when I was there they paid for my hotel. Why don't you do a little research. I'm willing to bet WJ is the exception. Not just in Canada but anywhere. Why do I care? Airlines are more interconnected than you think. Managements compare salaries. They also compare contracts. I'm sure AC management might or has given some thought to doing what you guys do. Thanks to ACPA, it probably wouldn't get very far. Let's try to get the best deal for all pilots everywhere. And before you tell me to fix my problems first, I'd be willing to do a detailed comparison of our contracts any day.
I assure that WS pilots are not afraid to go against the grain. WS pilots have easy access to our leadership and take them to task on everything and let nothing slide.
I feel fortunate to work in a place where things get fixed when language in an agreement backfires. Issues get resolved in months rather than years and we usually get our way.
Don't worry, our pilot association is doing unprecedented work for this next round of negotiations. They have all the competitors agreements and they have ours.
Look forward to good things to come from WS this April that will serve as some good benchmarks for Canadian aviation.
What is good for us is good for you and vice versa.
Good to hear you have a good relationship with your company. Now I'm not calling you blind but what gets me is most of you don't even see the problem as a problem in the first place. You've had twelve years to fix this problem. It's almost as if you don't want to ruin that "good relationship" so certain things will just be put aside. You guys are well paid. My advise, don't let that be the end all. There's much more important stuff than salary and bonus. That's the company's way of buying you. There are so many other issues. Oh I know, that's why you make money and the rest of us don't. Spare me. AC has been accused of "eating it's young" by this very same gang. Not providing a hotel for those who don't live in and don't wish to live in YYC is not a good thing for "your young". Has anybody put a dollar figure to this "investment"? Those of you that don't wish to live there have the benefit of the port system. I don't see the sense of going to YYC for training and paying your stay just to go back to live somewhere else afterwards. What about recurrent training and sim? How does any of this differ from paying for your own PPC??? I bet management really likes you guys. You're bending over right from day one. My view is that you need to have a good relationship with the company but not at the cost of changing industry standards. Oh, BTW, you're not doing the rest of us any good. But then again, maybe that's all part of the plan.
We're not perfect and we are working on it and we have many fish to fry. We don't accept the status quo and that's why this place is unrecognizable even compared to 4 years ago. The process is young and we're still branching out into uncharted territory for us.
And yes Tony we are doing you guys some good because frankly some of your industry standards suck.
We try to make things good for all and the ACPA makes things good for the people with seniority.
Senior WS pilot's understand that interests of the young are represent the betterment of the whole.
You won't find senior WS pilots leaning on the young to vote in their favor as they sometimes do elsewhere.
"Bending over from day one" you say. Now thats funniest thing I've read this year.
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Last edited by jjj on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi. First time poster-long time lurker. Just wanted to have Tony explain how he is currently being paid for re-current training......so Tony, are you being paid for recurrent SIM training or ART? Just the truth now please, none of your usual drivel. And, if you chose not to live at your base, does your company cover your hotel while you are in recurrent training? To set the record straight, at least we do get paid for recurrent training at Westjet, whether sim or groundschool, hell, we even get our hourly rate to attend our yearly Culture Chats!
Dutchy.
We had everything you stated long before you ever did. Our group was asked to give certain things up during CCAA but like I said before, anytime you want to compare benefits, let's do it.
You won't find senior WS pilots leaning on the young to vote in their favor as they sometimes do elsewhere.
That's a very ignorant statement. You have no idea what our seniors have given up for the juniors. You guys have been fed some pretty heavy bullshit my friend.
Regular triggers were thrown out the door.
Speaking of things that need to be changed.
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Last edited by tonysoprano on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Did they tell you that the RJ's were brought in to save their jobs? Did they tell you that we are flying reduced blocks to save their jobs? Did they tell you the contract they have has been the work of many seniors for many years? No? Oh.
It will be interesting to see how many of the things you gave up in CCAA will be given back to you in your next contract. I do wish you all the best of luck.
I find it unfathomable that your union accepted and your company expected you to accept no pay for recurrent training.
dutchman wrote:It will be interesting to see how many of the things you gave up in CCAA will be given back to you in your next contract. I do wish you all the best of luck.
I find it unfathomable that your union accepted and your company expected you to accept no pay for recurrent training.
So did we. But that's the reason management takes us into CCAA to begin with. We basically have a gun to our heads. Here's the thing, our contract was second to none worldwide and took many years to achieve. You guys are still young at twelve years but some things should have been established many years ago. Not being sanctimonious here dude.Talk to me when the contract is done. How much will you achieve? I hope much. For the sake of our profession. No barriers, no colors, no animossity, just our profession.
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Last edited by tonysoprano on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You guys are in a better position to gain than we are. We gave up much and because of ACE and all it's cronies, we are back to where we were at 9/11. All this was predicted and we knew we would someday go through it all over again. Our hands are tied to an extent. We can only hope to regain a small portion of what we lost but other than that, it's status quo at best for the next four years.
Once again, Tony, your posts shows how little you understand of how we think and operate over at the koolaid club. I believe you can reference a post I made to you last fall... something about 'not getting it'
cheers.
What don't I understand Four1oh? I'm certainly not going to make any conclusions based on what I read on this forum. I don't think everything I read here is a good representation of the real world, especially from your group. Here's what I do know. I think it's great that your group does things different. For the most part it's a refreshing change from the way things are done where I work. But it's far from perfect. That's something you seem to have a hard time with. Sometimes, myself and others might bring it to your attention. Sometimes you just have stop trying to portray perfection and admit there is a problem that needs to be fixed. But if you don't consider it a problem then I guess one doesn't egsist. Maybe I just don't get it.
How many problems do you suppose WJ has faced and overcome in the mere 12 years of it's inception? These current 'problems' as you call them('challenges', some of us call them) are infinitely minor compared to what we've already survived and overcome. Difference for us is we don't have to walk a picket line to get the changes done that need doing, and I hope it never comes to that. We don't sue our company, and we don't consider our executives the enemy either, and once again, I hope it never turns into something like that. I'm not taking a shot at your outfit, merely all the union outfits that see fit to negotiate in that way. Cheers.
Four1oh wrote:I'm not taking a shot at your outfit, merely all the union outfits that see fit to negotiate in that way. Cheers.
the last thing any union wants is to strike. the last thing any union wants is to sue anyone. the last thing any union wants is to view their employer's executives as the enemy. the fact that any or all of these things happen does not mean that the union wanted them to. it takes 2 to tango. my experience has been that many employers get the union they deserve. obviously WJ does not deserve a union that feels the need to resort to any of the tactic you mentioned. i hope it stays that way also.
I call bullshit. By the union, I mean the entity itself, not the union members. I see a difference. Who profits when the union members and the management don't trust each other? Who profits from union dues? Who profits most when the union members get a raise? How much money does the CAW rake in each year? What do their executives get paid? I doubt it's less than a hefty 6 figure salary.
