CanJet Making Its Mark

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How original... And you've been in this business how long again? Hope you're planning your retirement well!

Oh, and BTW, have fun... My only concern are the junior guys at AT who, more than probably, will get scr**ed in the years to come by people with your attitude.

Signin' out!

[DeltaHotel]

I have to say im with SkyLounger on that one !

[Troubleshot]

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How original... And you've been in this business how long again? Hope you're planning your retirement well!

Oh, and BTW, have fun... My only concern are the junior guys at AT who, more than probably, will get scr**ed in the years to come by people with your attitude.

Signin' out!

Hey I've been screwed by airlines before my friend....what I do know is whiny babies like yourself with the "what have you done for me lately" attitudes are cancer in airlines through out the industry, I've seen your types around, that bitch about everything all day long at work to anyone that will listen about how your getting screwed....every work place has "that guy" and I'm pretty sure your him. My attitude has been hard work and staying focused on were the industry has been going and it has paid off for me...obviously you feel your entitled to something...


All these "charter" companies you are talking about have provided me (Contract Maintenance AMO) and alot of other companies alot of work over the years so excuse me for not sharing your views, what about the catering companies, fuellers, ground handlers, airports, FBO's, Travel agents, etc...I guess 10 transat pilots are worth more than 100 grunts eh....get over yourself...some of you pilots need to look at the friggin big picture rather than just your own wallets and RRSP's

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How original... And you've been in this business how long again? Hope you're planning your retirement well!

Oh, and BTW, have fun... My only concern are the junior guys at AT who, more than probably, will get scr**ed in the years to come by people with your attitude.

Signin' out!

Hey I've been screwed by airlines before my friend....what I do know is whiny babies like yourself with the "what have you done for me lately" attitudes are cancer in airlines through out the industry, I've seen your types around, that bitch about everything all day long at work to anyone that will listen about how your getting screwed....every work place has "that guy" and I'm pretty sure your him. My attitude has been hard work and staying focused on were the industry has been going and it has paid off for me...obviously you feel your entitled to something...


All these "charter" companies you are talking about have provided me (Contract Maintenance AMO) and alot of other companies alot of work over the years so excuse me for not sharing your views, what about the catering companies, fuellers, ground handlers, airports, FBO's, Travel agents, etc...I guess 10 transat pilots are worth more than 100 grunts eh....get over yourself...some of you pilots need to look at the friggin big picture rather than just your own wallets and RRSP's

Good for you my friend... I'm glad you have me all figured out, you'll sleep better tonight (of course you didn't properly read my posts but whatever...)

Who am I to argue with you

[Troubleshot]

Oh I've read your posts very well I think, you can try and curb the issue all you want...but you know and I know, as well as everyone here knows that this about your bottom line and not the health of the industry as your trying to portray. If you were really concerned about the industry you would welcome growth and stimulation, sure there will be casualties of the weak but the overall picture is a better, cheaper product for the consumer and stream-lined companies.

I'd rather 4 companies like CanJet and Sunwing then 2 companies like Transat, sure the money maybe lower at CanJet/Sunwing but they generate more cash into aviation spin-offs and create more jobs overall.

Speaking of salaries, where does transat rank as far as salaries go (aircraft type)

[WetJet]

Troubleshot, you seem angry a lot. Why the personal attacks on everybody? Just because Sunwing pays your bills doesn't mean Transat pilots have anything personal against you.

It's not like Skylounger said "Arguing with Troubleshot is like arguing with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience."

[Troubleshot]

I laugh at you guys sometimes....I am not angry by any stretch...All I do is call people out when they are spouting BS I have nothing against Transat but Skylounger is shitting on healthy/viable companies with lower costs and feels that they should jack up the price so Transat Holidays doesn't use them...and in turn use his more expensive airline so he can continue to make more money...utter BS IMHO. That kind of thinking is not how the world works and if he wants to cry about on Avcanada he better be ready to hear my piece on Avcanada.

TS

[DeltaHotel]

I'd rather 4 companies like CanJet and Sunwing then 2 companies like Transat, sure the money maybe lower at CanJet/Sunwing but they generate more cash into aviation spin-offs and create more jobs overall.

I'm not sure this is better for the economy if they operate for a couple years and then fold cuz their price structure couldn't sustain the operation !!

I'd rather see Transat get some mid-size jets to better suit their needs instead of seeing half a dozen charter companies come and go over the years ...

[Troubleshot]

I agree with that statement DH, but to be fair we do not have evidence to suggest that CanJet or Sunwing will not be around in a couple of years. From what I can see these companies have found a great niche and show no signs of a struggling airline (ie not paying bills, aircraft in disarray, payroll issues, etc...). Of course we do not know the real financial state of these companies but we do know CanJet has some huge dollars behind it not to mention the resources of IMP Aerospace. And of course Sunwing that owns alot of the resort destinations if flys into seems self sufficient.

I think it would be better for Transat to not tie up cash in approx. 15 737NG's (CanJet will have 13 this year) and go through the monster cost of a new aircraft type when there are third party providers that can do it for dimes on the dollar and half the headaches.

[c170b53]

Hard to reason with any drunk and why bother. Often in the first statement on these forums the slurring is obvious so ignore and move on.
There's nothing wrong with small companies and the spin-offs that follow as long as everybody plays by the rules with regards to safety. As a small MRO provider TS as long as you have all the tools (such as high lifts to get to tail components) then you deserve whatever part of the business you can get. If a so-called provider is operating out of a van then there's likely to be some issue avoidance's made.

[jetdoc]

Hard to reason with any drunk and why bother. Often in the first statement on these forums the slurring is obvious so ignore and move on.
There's nothing wrong with small companies and the spin-offs that follow as long as everybody plays by the rules with regards to safety. As a small MRO provider TS as long as you have all the tools (such as high lifts to get to tail components) then you deserve whatever part of the business you can get. If a so-called provider is operating out of a van then there's likely to be some issue avoidance's made.

This is exactly to the point, a company starts up, gets some contracts, grows, invests in some facilities and infrastructure, then the new kid on the block shows up, has NO facilities, NO infrastructure and under bids the existing companies by being significantly cheaper.
The customer and the operator both take a "risk management" approach to the new operation and as long as everything goes according to plan it works OK, but if there are problems with nothing to back it up with everybody is stressed, disappointed and safety IS compromised.

Trying to work by yourself with nothing is stressful, and although I believe the vast majority will operate safely this way, it is only a matter of time before something gets missed for some reason and there will be an incident (or worse an accident).

I think the new motto in this age of competition is "We are so good at doing so much with so little, we can do everything with nothing!"

A little off topic I know, but ..

[Rubberbiscuit]

Although cost undoubtedly was the #1 reason for Transat AT to sign a deal with Canjet, I also believe getting an NG fleet up and running in a timely fashion was a factor as well. Canjet was the fastest way to get NG's and try to stop/squash the competition.

[c170b53]

Along the same lines as WJ alliance with KLM, to feed each other with traffic?

[Rubberbiscuit]

Troubleshot, I am with you BTW! Putting Sunwing and Enerjet in the same sentense as Jetsgo and speaking of those companies as if they were a thing of the past displays highschool school yard attitudes. Childish.

[Campanola]

All of you guys have some good arguments. What I don't understand is why Transat AT gives everything to Canjet. Why not 50/50 with Canjet and to an Air Transat operation of 737s with an agrements between the two? Why putting all the eggs in the same basket creating a depandency to Canjet. There is several reasons why Transat AT are not giving everything to Air Transat, including diversification and keeping operating cost low by forcing Air Transat to stay competitive. Having a Canjet only operation, like they did with WestJet, is the same as having an Air Transat only operation. WestJet have lost the contract and now Transat AT must ask Canjet to grow like crazy. If something happen with/to Canjet, who's going to take the operation now? Air Transat will not be able to go from 0 to 10+ 737s in one year. Anyway, I'm not the CEO.

[ng78]

Campanola, I disagree with you. It is a lot more efficient to contract out the narrow body flying to one carrier than it is to operate a small handful of them and contract the rest out. You have to remember that Canjet has been operating 737's for many years now, plus their costs are significantly lower than Air Transat's. As for Westjet, I'm sure it has a lot more to do with them going full speed ahead with Westjet Vacations.

[Campanola]

ng78, Yes it's more efficient, for now and in the short run. In the long run, we will see. But who knows. You got to pay for insurance or edging, so there's a price to pay for diversification and you obtain in return more stability and a better control. That was the phylosophy of Transat AT and it served them well in the past. And don't forget that Air Transat is making money, is efficient and it's all going in the same pocket. The saving with Canjet must be significant to justify the decision. My guess is that something happened between Transat AT and Air Transat. Transat AT want to teach a lesson to Air Transat or Air Transat don't want to fly 737s. Maybe I'm all wrong too. I don't have microphones everywhere in the office. But don't read me wrong, pilots at Air Transat are very happy for pilots at Canjet and I'm sure it's a very good decisions to give travelers to Canjet. No blame to Canjet here.

[rudder]

An ACMI arrangement (aircraft/crew/maintenance/insurance) between Transat AT and CanJet works because Air Transat either cannot or does not want to add the costs of the introduction of the B737 to its balance sheet. As well, the B737 domestic based deployment is seasonal which creates huge logistical and staffing issues.

[jetdoc]

Is Canjet basing any aircraft out west this winter?

[Panama Jack]

I am just curious . . .

Whenever I see a Canjet ad they require pilots (Capt's and FO's) who are already type rated on the B73C. Where are they getting these people from? Are there a number of guys with B73C ratings out on the street? Are they luring them from WJ?

[WALL E]

I am just curious . . .

Whenever I see a Canjet ad they require pilots (Capt's and FO's) who are already type rated on the B73C. Where are they getting these people from? Are there a number of guys with B73C ratings out on the street? Are they luring them from WJ?

I am not trying to piss anyone off but to leave Westjet to go to Canjet especially in theis economic climate is a real dumb move....
I know a few guys left Sunwing for Canjet and I suppose they might attract some foreign pilots. Remember that 73C rating is what they want but it may not be what they get.

[DeltaHotel]

I've learned from a trusted source today that Transat is in the process of re-negociating the contract with Canjet, in Canjet's favor.

This ammendment would result in Canjet doing even more flying for Transat.

The next few weeks should bring some interesting news.

[Anti-Ice]

Canjet only operates the B73C........for now. So any new hires have no choice but to be typed on th NG.

Canjet is the best company I've ever worked for.........I'd be happy to retire with them. This is a place where u r known by name, not a number.........and they treat u very well.

[Spit-IX]

Canjet is the best company I've ever worked for.........I'd be happy to retire with them. This is a place where u r known by name, not a number.........and they treat u very well.

Why don't they pay you industry standard wages if they are such a good company? NG Captain's being paid what some turbo prop Captains make and much less than some biz-jet Captains, after you bring your own NG rating to the company, means they only care about dollars and cents and you are just a peon to them..........but please.........enjoy!

[Dilbert Pickles]

Hey Spit IX,

Sooo would you speaking of WestJet, Porter, Jazz or Air Canada??? Last I checked all these places were paying below what CanJet starts at... And when did you need a type rating to get hired there?

Need to vent!

The pay in this industry is the worst I've ever seen. It's funny and sad because we're all to blame for allowing this shit to happen. It's true, we feed on our young. For christ sake, I made more without my grade 10. I'm not saying we all deserve million dollar wages but come on. Who in their right minds would sit down and present a pay scale like at Jazz? Or even better present a pay scale that doesn't even start till after two years of making so little you can't afford to simply feed a family comfortably?? What the @#$! is this, a god damn club? What ever happen to respecting each other and making a decent wage? Pay your employees with respect and a fair wage and watch happens.