Interesting quotes from "Sully"

[Strega]

Rockie,

Do you think your post secondary education makes you a better pilot?

[Rockie]

Rockie,

Do you think your post secondary education makes you a better pilot?

Good question. In my mind there is no such thing as wasted education. I personally don't have a formal post-secondary education in terms of college or university, although I wish I did. I do however have a large number of professional courses and qualifications that date all the way back to my military days, and they definitely make me a better pilot.

More important to our line of work in my opinion is intelligence and an attitude of curiosity and self-improvement that makes a person strive to learn everyday of their life. I've met many people who have the piece of paper from a university and then coast the rest of their lives. I've also met folks with basic high school who never attended post-secondary, but are smart as a whip and are not satisfied with mediocrity in their chosen profession.

Post-secondary by itself doesn't make a person a better pilot, but the thirst for knowledge that higher education should nuture in a person will.

[Janszoon]

It is my opinion, a degree should be mandatory to obtain an ATPL in Canada..

.....because HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of imature kids are able to get degrees..

I find it strange the amount of esteem you place on degrees in one minute and the lack of hardship you feel it takes to obtain one in the next.

What, specifically, does a degree bestow on a person that one cannot obtain by other means? Some people gain something from a degree and some don't, but having one does not preclude being a better person.

It is a misconception that having a degree is something special; hence the "hundreds of thousands" of immature kids being forced through universities by their parents only to gain a degree and learn nothing from it. Alone, a degree is nothing special, but combined with someone who learned while gaining it and who applies that knowledge to their field of work, it has merit.

[Strega]

J you left out some of my text from your quote..


200hr wonder mentioned he "did not coplete" a degree, but now should be able to,,
My point was that many kids, although immature, are able to finish a degree by hard work, and
dedication, something lacking by many pilots these days. I would say it is several orders of magnitude
easier to finish a CPL than obtain a degree, even in basketweaving..but who am I to say..

[Prairie Chicken]

Along the same topic I found this article. The article isn't so much news but the link to the questions and responses is interesting.

Last update: 12:44 p.m. EDT March 30, 2009
LONDON & NEW YORK, Mar 30, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- In a year already struck by high-profile accidents, the aviation industry has repeated its anxiety about safety, in a survey for Ascend, the aerospace specialists.
Along with poor financial health, a shortage of experienced personnel, fatigue and tough work practices were considered the greatest dangers to air safety, mirroring concerns expressed in an Ascend survey last year. This year, fears over complacency had significantly increased.

The results come shortly after Captain Chesley Sullenberger's comments that cost cutting practices, putting pressure on airline staff, are threatening safety. Speaking about his successful landing of US Airways flight 1549 in New York's Hudson river, he said, "One way of looking at this might be that, for 42 years, I've been making regular deposits in this bank of experience: education and training. And on January 15th the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal." Sullenberger is alarmed at practices, which he fears threaten that bank.
Ascend Safety director Paul Hayes agrees with the sentiment. "Industry cutbacks are causing concerns. Aviation personnel are aware that they are working harder for less money, and they link this with increased risks to safety," he says.

"However, these views need to be balanced with the fact that safety is expected to continue improving over the next five years thanks to better technology and management accountability for safety. It follows that respondents overwhelmingly placed responsibility for continued improvement with management. They feared that inexperience, fatigue and complacency threaten the value of safety improvements."
Almost 200 aviation insiders from over 40 countries responded to the survey, conducted in March by Ascend.
Ranking safety threats from 1 (least important) to 10 (most important), most insiders rated: a shortage of experienced personnel at +7; airline financial health +7, management experience and culture +8; fatigue/difficult work practices +7; and complacency +6.
"It's important for aviation management to take these views onboard and respond accordingly, seeking to balance economic challenges with appropriate levels of safety training and sound work practices, says Hayes."
Observations by respondents supported these views:

-- "Airline management irresponsibly views safety as an additional cost."
-- "Safety is about attitude and accountability."
-- "Cost is the problem in all areas."
-- "Top down emphasis on safety is what brings it to the fore."
-- "Pilots must be trained to immediately to go to manual to avoid secondary impacts."

For charts on survey results:
http://www.ascendworldwide.com/content/download/SafetyData/AirsafetyData.htm

[Meatservo]

"Management accountability for safety"...

Balls.

[Widow]

What Captain Sullenberger Meant to Say
(But Was Too Polite to Do So)
A Guest Post
By Captain Steve

After reading some of the excepts of Captain Sullenberger’s various speeches, especially those of a few weeks ago with the National Transportation Safety Board, I would like to add my editorial from a seasoned international captain.

Captain Sullenberger has been a class act all the way. He’s not been petty, pious, or egotistical. He is, however, much like most of the captains I know and, more broadly, most of the pilots I know. Why? He doesn’t need to be otherwise. When someone has accomplished what he and the scores of men and women like him have accomplished, why do we need to boast?

He implies that what he did while serving as the “skipper” of US Airways flight 1549 was simply his job. He is being as honest and accurate as he can be: “Please, no fanfare, no applause, just doing my job.” But what he has also alluded to in some of his speeches is that it has taken years, even decades, to prepare himself for that one single “lifetime event” of guiding his jet into the safe, smooth landing on the Hudson River.

What he is not saying is this:

We, the airline pilots, are facing a losing battle in the PR department. You believe that we make huge salaries and are treated like royalty. Pure fiction. The public persona or image as propagated by airline management and the ATA is grossly wrong. Why have we been losing this battle for such a long time? Simple. Because most of us are like “Sully”; we don’t want applause or fanfare for doing what we are trained to do. However, we do realize that we should be fairly compensated for what we have achieved to get this job and what we continue to do on a daily basis to keep it. This backlash of pilot bashing is building to a boiling point.

Regional carriers, like the Colgan Airlines flight in Buffalo, are simply this: they employ the lowest-bidder pilots. No offense to them, this is not personal. Don’t make that a distraction to the problem. It is the system that is at fault. Money and profits at all cost.

Airline history lesson 101: It used to be, up until the mid 1980’s, that a young pilot would be hired on at a major carrier, become a flight engineer (FE), and then spend a few years managing the systems of the older-generation airplanes. But he or she was learning all the while. These new “pilots” sat in the FE seat and did their job, all the while observing the “pilots” doing the flying, day in and day out.

The FE’s learned from the seasoned pilots about the real world of flying into the Chicago O’Hares and New York LaGuardias. They learned decision making, delegation, and the reality of “captain’s final authority” as confirmed in the law. When they got the chance to upgrade, they became a copilot. The copilot’s duty was to assist the captain in flying; but even during their time as the new copilot, they had the luxury of the FE looking over their shoulders — i.e., more learning. This three-man-crew concept, now a fond memory in the domestic markets but used predominately in international flying, was considered one more layer of protection. But it’s gone.

Now domestic flying is being shifted to the regional carriers, like the American Eagles, Comairs, Mesas, and Colgan Airs, to name a few. These consist of the lowest bidders and the newest pilots flying into the harshest of environments. The airline management teams would respond that it works and that this is routine flying. I beg to differ.

Analogy: You are told you need open-heart surgery for a quadruple bypass. I ask that from this date forward you go out and search the Internet for the cheapest price that you can get, and you rush to schedule this operation because there are only two dates that you can get that cheap rate. Done!

Do any of us do that? No. What do we do? We get second opinions, we ask who is the best in town, etc. We ask: “Is there anyone who has been doing this surgery for the last 20 to 25 years”? We don’t say, “Let me use someone who just graduated from medical school and was rushed through residency because it will be cheaper.”

Why not apply the same logic that the public uses to buy an airplane ticket to this surgery scenario? Bypass surgery is routine, right? Some surgeons do two, three, or four a day. It must be easy.

To take that a step further, how many surgeons have to retake their medical boards every nine months in order to be qualified? Airline pilots do. We are subject to simulator check-rides every nine months to demonstrate knowledge, proficiency, and ability.

How many surgeons have to take a physical exam every six months by the A.M.A. in order to work? None! Airline pilots do. Fail your medical exam and you’re done! How many surgeons (or any other critical professional like surgeon or politician) are subject to random drug and alcohol testing? None.

Flying across the North Atlantic is routine, right? It wasn’t just a short few decades ago. We, the pilots, make it routine for you because we have skills, experience, and training like very few others.

Gifted? No, not many of us are. But dedicated and focused upon excellence, you bet! I have told my kids one thing many times since they were little children: “I don’t expect perfection, I expect excellence.” I expect 100 percent effort in all you do. This is the creed of every pilot I know.

Flying from Chicago’s O’Hare to Denver is routine, right? But it wasn’t a few decades ago. We, the pilots, make it routine too. But I challenge you on this. Is your life worth less because you are over the heartland of America in the dark of night rather than climbing into the skies of Rio over the Amazon or headed out across the Pacific? It is worth less if you are on the low-cost regional carrier because you chose to pay less. If you are on the regional carrier headed to Denver and the engine is on fire, I am sure that it is comforting to know that you saved 15 percent by shopping the Internet for the cheapest fare. Isn’t it great to know that you have the newest, least-experienced, exhausted, starving young cockpit crew that this regional airline could find? Good for you!

Did I say starving? Yeah, I did. Did you know that these regional crews can work for 12 to 13 hours every day, flying five to eight legs a day, but their airline does not feel it’s important enough to provide food for them? They are already on welfare wages, and now they have to find time and money while on the ground for 25 minutes to simply nourish themselves. It’s a sad state of affairs. Remember, you bought the cheapest ticket.

Why do we do this? We do this in spite of having lost our pensions, lost 50 percent of our wages, and our horrible work conditions. Our job is intense. It is very fatiguing. Our work causes us to break circadian rhythms and we can’t sleep. I told you, we are dedicated and professional.

The public thinks it is entitled to fly anywhere in the country for $99. Get Real. You get what you pay for. Less airfare means less pay, less maintenance, and less customer service. Lower fares mean peanuts are now too expensive and pretzels will cost you.

By the way, the next shoe to drop is for airlines to allow foreign investment. Prepare to have our airlines taken over by foreign governments, robbed of cash, and then disbanded. You will now be flying on China Eastern, Lufthansa, or British Airways from O’Hare to Denver. Our jobs and the entire airline industry is about to implode, just so you can have your $99 fare.

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... uest-post/

[swordfish]

Well written, and with obvious insight into the state of the industry.

[chancellor]

Bang on. Most of the travelling public, yes our customers are not very bright when it comes to all of this. It is the Wal-mart mentality.